Disappointed In Rigol Service

[sokoloff]

The point is that hiding screws beneath the front panel adhesive decal and not providing service information or location of screws is unforgivable at any price.

I wonder what mobile phone you carry then. I assume you don't use most commercial laptops.

Companies selling into the low and low-mid end of the test equipment market are much more like watch, phone, and laptop makers. They make their money (and focus their efforts) on the first sale, and they're not building heirloom quality equipment. They're also not charging HP/Keysight/Agilent/Tek/etc new equipment prices for their equipment.

To me, it is forgivable at a price. (My only connection to Rigol is owning a 1054. I find it a great bargain and if it died tomorrow out of warranty, I'd take a stab at fixing and if I couldn't, maybe I'd buy another, maybe I'd buy the newer Siglent.)

[Electro Detective]

Mr. Paul Price (aka Rigol CUSTOMER) got shafted from every direction with his DSO, I don't understand why he's being painted up as the bad guy here.   

They should have sent him TWO rotary encoders for FREE, or at least invoiced the REAL COST price plus shipping,
including ALL relevant information to install including weird (deliberately designed annoyance assembly) 'watch its'. 

Of course it's normal to expect that Mr. Price agrees/signs off on any warranty or otherwise support from Rigol becoming void from that point upon receiving the parts.
Hey, the company doesn't know what his skill set is, they may figure he might zap the gear and himself, so they have to cover their ass,
fair enough... 


I would be surprised if NO ONE here has ever been down that path before, with some companies bending over backwards to get the bits to your door asap.
Come on, who wouldn't buy a product from a company like that again?   


That said, just because many -formerly- reputable businesses bought out and converted to sh!tty corporat companies operating  a 'first suck them in with bling, then bleed them dry' way of running things
(due to incompetency, asset stripping and or arrogant assholery)
that doesn't mean it's -right- (a not so cool anymore millennial philosophy it seems)
and conned-sumers should protest with their sheathed credit cards   



Blah End: if I see any one more -avoidable- Rigol heartbreaks at this forum, the Shopping Cart will be fitted with a handbrake
and rubber chocs   

[Paul Price]

Electro Detective, Thanks for your comments. I was starting to believe that I have been attacked by shills and trolls working for Rigol to shame, negate and insult any person who has honestly expressed their own experience as a customer and  who has complained about their products!

Why should a "Greed is Good",  profit is everything, "use it a little and then throw it in the dump"attitude be defended otherwise by anyone? It is not only morally correct, but undoubtedly and ultimately in the best interest of any company to try to do their best for their customers, not victimize them for their poor choice of buying poorly designed and almost unerviceable  products from them.

[Monkeh]

Perhaps you should've made the better choice in the first place.

Good grief, such a titanic amount of bitching over nothing.

[Electro Detective]

...I was starting to believe that I have been attacked by shills and trolls working for Rigol to shame, negate and insult any person who has honestly expressed their own experience as a customer and  who has complained about their products!

Why should a "Greed is Good",  profit is everything, "use it a little and then throw it in the dump"attitude be defended otherwise by anyone? It is not only morally correct, but undoubtedly and ultimately in the best interest of any company to try to do their best for their customers, not victimize them for their poor choice of buying poorly designed and almost unserviceable  products from them.

Too right mate     and yeah, a handful of them sure know how to go to work as a pack sometimes,
and end up letting the cat out of the bag when they get too b!tchy    about their fav brands being criticised for SUPPORT SLACKNESS

I respect the ones that state what their affiliations are, but you don't have any issues with those blokes, in fact it's in their interest too to get you sorted asap

**** Rigol, I could care less about their 'hackable' value model/s aimed at the lower income market to pull in hesitant spending urban battlers, and wean them off CRT oscilloscopes. 
If they don't show some support to ALL their customers, assuming they display any support to anyone  then I'm certain the  competitions' coffers might welcome your next lot of test gear cash,
and throw a dog a bone as Siglent do! 

These sad trollshills (who need to buy a life and get a real job) try to get in your head to convince you to convince yourself, that YOU are at fault, not the manufacturer,
and as a last resort tell you 'that's how s*** works today, move on...'   


LOL, reason, morals and 'greed is good shooting itself in the foot' pushed aside for a minute:
How is it the customers fault for 'poor purchase choices' from a company, who in turn want no further dealings with any of their products gone south,
but instead have their paid online trollshills at the ready to bring down anyone by any means possible, for pointing out a simple request for support/parts/docs... and being stuffed around 

Good luck staying in business after enough customers get burned... 
 

[Nominal Animal]

since my unit is a few months out of warranty, the flat repair rate is $360.

That, or what happened to Paul Price, would drive me nuts.

If you read that Why I quit after 40 years thread, you'd know that this is increasingly the way companies (or at least engineers working for companies that produce these tools) are required to operate.  There are very, very few companies that produce tools without designed/engineered obsolescence and weak points known to fail after some time. I do not know how you have missed this, or why you thought Rigol was different.

Many members here like it that way, and do not like it when anyone questions the status quo. Quite probably a lot of their work involves that kind of design -- and I'm not referring to anyone working for Rigol, specifically; I mean there are many that depend on them being able to sell basically the same tool with minimal changes over and over again to the same customers -- and they do not like when that approach is questioned; it strikes too close to home, rocks the boat. If you are not that way yourself, you have to ignore them, for your own sanity. If you can't, you'll break like I did; and that is definitely unfun and counterproductive.

Some members, like wraper who first answered, offered information as to how to fix the tool yourself.  I'm in that camp too. If I want a tool I can rely on, I need one I can fix myself. This is why I use Linux; not being an EE, and most of the tools I use being software, I like the fact that I can customize them as I wish, and not conform to a workflow designed by someone else. Plus, the ability to create my own tools is basically built-in to the system. You'd be surprised by the stuff I can do with Linux machines, really: my imagination seems to be the limiting factor.

In the Linux world, you see the "screws behind the front panel decal" all the time. Most embedded manufacturers who provide their own Linux distribution, have simply forked the kernel, stuffed their own things in there willy-nilly, meaning that properly integrating them with the kernel so that the community would be able to maintain it is approximately as much work as rewriting the crap from scratch, and any changes made in future kernels have to be painstakingly backported by hand. See Linux Meson for an example, or the situation around proprietary Linux graphics drivers.  Raspberry Pi and Qualcomm are even worse: they hate Linux developers with a passion (because to Qualcomm, GPL is hate speech), and would prefer to only deliver binaries like Microsoft does, except that the license and the users/community does not really allow them to do that effectively. They did try hard to do that, in the beginning.

The difference between Linux and hardware tool companies is that in the Linux case, it is the Linux community that gets the blame, never the manufacturers; after all, the manufacturers "did not have to support Linux in the first place, and only did so because they want to support the community". Bullshit, they want to make money, with the least effort possible. But that is the way business is done nowadays.

(I believe one reason some German tools are often of higher quality, is because a lot of the businesses there are family-owned and family-directed, and there is less pressure to maximize short-term profits; they have to think in long-term also. I am not sure if there have been social studies about this, but you can definitely see it in how those businesses operate, and interact with their long-term customers.)

I personally don't have an oscilloscope, but am saving up to get a good one, as I do need one, for characterising power supplies for use with my SBCs (power issues cause problems especially on Odroid HC1s), designing my own microcontroller carrier/buddy boards to use with those, and so on.  I realized that I'd really need to do differential probing, but only at low voltages (typically 3.3V - 12V), so that the Analog Discovery 2 would be a much better option, since good differential probes cost the same as a cheap oscilloscope. AD2 is closed-source too, so if it breaks or has bugs, there is basically nothing I can do about it; but at this point, there is no viable alternative I can find that I can afford. (An old analog oscilloscope with differential probes would be, except I don't have the skills or the equipment to fix or keep one working, or even calibrated to any degree.)

[Mechatrommer]

They should have sent him TWO rotary encoders for FREE, or at least invoiced the REAL COST price plus shipping,
including ALL relevant information to install including weird (deliberately designed annoyance assembly) 'watch its'. 

it clearly stated its not in their policy. who are you to say "they should do this" "they should do that"? if you dont like the policy, you can make your own company with "perpetual warranty" policy then you'll know how it feels. i think 3 years warranty period is good enough. most products (including my $4000++ epson) are only 1 year warranty.

[james_s]

I'm actually a little surprised to hear that Rigol has any service at all. They make decent stuff but it's a low end brand known for a very low price point. Excellent support is one of the perks you get for paying the much higher price of something like a Tek or Keysight.

[2N3055]

since my unit is a few months out of warranty, the flat repair rate is $360.

That, or what happened to Paul Price, would drive me nuts.

What are you talking about? That you think that out of warranty  flat rate repair and full calibration and adjustment for 6.5 digit DMM is only 360 USD, even if they have to change whole motherboard or all the parts inside? Ask Keysight for their out of warranty flat rate repair quote for one of their 6.5 digit DMMs...
Paul Price had DS4000 fail few weeks before warranty expired, he contacted Rigol and then they said "No problem we'll fix it for free, it's in warranty. And please hurry up because you have only few weeks left."
And then he decided not to send it. He wanted to repair it himself.
And then he complaints about how it was hard to disassemble and that he didn't know where the screws are...
Enter publicly available service manual, that he didn't bother to read, because it has exploded views, disassembly guide , and even note about how you need to be careful not to damage front panel decal sticker...

As for spare parts, most of manufacturers don't sell them anymore for most products, or sell only some parts.. Or if they do, they will sell it only to companies and repair shops...

So Rigol have to give you better service than Keysight and than do it for free?
They don't. Could they ? Probably, and I believe they should, so they become better company.

Where I live support for Keysight, Tektronix, Lecroy, Fluke, etc... is HORRIBLE. Small country, no big customers, no regional offices whatsoever. If I need something it travels to Germany..

I have several pieces of Rigol equipment, and had problems only once in a few years. It was DP832, screen problem. I contacted reseller I bought it  from and a the same time Rigol to ask who do I send it back to. Reseller got back to me for details, and sent me prepaid shipping slip. I sent PSU back next day, and day after that I received brand new one as replacement. It was sent before I send mine back..
In a week or so Rigol EU contacted me to check if all was sorted...
I'm not saying it happens to all and that this is typical, but my only experience with Rigol support was flawless...
We'll see how it will be further down the road, I don't know that...

Regards,

[CM800]

So I called back and asked them to send me a new rotary encoder and I would willingly void the warranty and fix it myself.
  They said that is not their policy.
So I called back and asked to to sell me a new rotary encoder.
  They said they were in the business of selling equipment, not spare repair parts.

No single sane manufacturer will send you the component for you to fix it your self, period.

Are you expecting they trust your soldering skill just because you say so ?

Yeah, me too, friends all admire my soldering skill as they claim I'm one of the best in the world, as I'm a nice and generous guy around. So generous that I also apply that to my soldering work that generously put solder at everything I worked on like this .... nice eh ?

I have a really old Delta Elektronika 80V 20A rack mount powersupply. Beautiful beast I brought second hand off ebay.

Must be at least 15 years old.

I contacted support and explained the issue.

They offered me the schematics and manual, along with sending me a couple of replacement diodes "it's cheaper for me just to send these to you FOC then invoice"

If I ever can afford a new one... I'm going to them. Got damn that is some great support.

[DC1MC]

Actually, at least in Germany, the Rigol service was very good and responsive, they were staffed by locals and they even sell replacement parts (not the cheapest, but oh well, EU prices).
So, from my experience, I can't say anything bad.

 Cheers,
 DC1MC

[nctnico]

Mr. Paul Price (aka Rigol CUSTOMER) got shafted from every direction with his DSO, I don't understand why he's being painted up as the bad guy here.   

Because he demands his scope to be fixed within the blink of an eye and apparantly he waited until fixing it until is was really broken AND he needed it the most. That is a clear example of not taking care of your tools. There is not much Rigol can do about that.

They should have sent him TWO rotary encoders for FREE, or at least invoiced the REAL COST price plus shipping,
including ALL relevant information to install including weird (deliberately designed annoyance assembly) 'watch its'. 

That is your opinion. Depending on which Rigol office you talk to they may or may not have or know about spare parts. Also let's not forget: If Paul would have send his scope in for repair earlier his scope would have been fixed for free. Instead Paul didn't give Rigol a fair chance to make it right.

[rsjsouza]

It was not long ago that someone asked me how I had replaced the front end decal of my DS4000 after disassembling it, and it only took him an e-mail asking for a new one, which was promptly sent by Rigol North America (IIRC).

Asking for repairs outside the warranty period is fine; you never know if you don't ask. Posting a bitching thread here is close to the definition of slander and gives the impression of tremendous self entitlement.

Paul Price's customer experience is fine; he asked and received answers and decided to tackle the problem by himself, raising his dissatisfaction when compared to equipments of yore.

[rsjsouza]

Because he demands his scope to be fixed within the blink of an eye and apparantly he waited until fixing it until is was really broken AND he needed it the most. That is a clear example of not taking care of your tools. There is not much Rigol can do about that.
(...)
That is your opinion. Depending on which Rigol office you talk to they may or may not have or know about spare parts. Also let's not forget: If Paul would have send his scope in for repair earlier his scope would have been fixed for free. Instead Paul didn't give Rigol a fair chance to make it right.

Nico, Electro Detective's troll responses are not worth the electrical energy spent in sending the characters over the wire.

Regarding Paul's scenario, to me at least he really didn't come across like that (entitled and whiny); he made a choice based on Rigol's terms and conditions and assumed the risks himself on the repair. However I agree wholeheartdly with you: if you depend on a tool as your lifeline, always have a plan B.

[edavid]

I own a Rigol bench multimeter DM3068 (and a thousands of dollars of other Rigol equipment).  It won't power up.  I called tech support and  they said to send it in for repair.  But they said the warranty period is three years, and that since my unit is a few months out of warranty, the flat repair rate is $360.  My experience with good companies is that they will stand behind their products and not seek to extract exorbitant repair fees if the product is not very long out of warranty.  I was thus surprised that Rigol refused to provide a warranty repair. Needless to say, I will not be buying Rigol any more.

Did you buy it with a credit card?  If so, check if the credit card offers extended warranty coverage.

(And in the future, always buy test equipment with an American Express card, since they have the best extended warranty service.)

[Circlotron]

I think manufacturers should have a sliding scale for fixed repair charges according to how many months the thing is past warranty. Three years, you might get slugged. Three months, only a tingle.

[PA4TIM]

Rigol is one of thew cheapest  brands on the market. I think it is a miracle they have a service department. 360 euro is not a bad price for a repair. Repairing a cheap scope can be as much work as an expensive scope. My first DSO was a 100 MHz Rigol, back then >1000 euro. This was a piece of junk, I used it a few months and a year later I gave it to a poor student who repaired it and was very happy. I then bought a HMO-3522 and still use that almost every day. (professional) I too need a scope for work so I have more then one. Just like I have backup (de)soldering gear, DMM's and LCR meters. I need them and electronics can die (I know because repairing testgear is my work)

Suppose this not-so-good brand should show coulance like a good brand maybe sometimes will do, where is the limit, 3 months, 5 months, 10 months ? 3 year is 3 year, and that is not a bad period at all.

[quoteBravoV: ]No single sane manufacturer will send you the component for you to fix it your self, period.[/quote]

You are right but there are (rare) exceptions. My guitar has active rather complex electronics inside. After a few months it died. I had to send it back to the states and they would fix it. Nothing strange but I rather repair it my self so I asked if they would help me with the schematics. They could not (probably they outsourced the design) but they would try to help me. I found the fault but it was a programmable part and the cause was a fault during production. I told them this, they asked my adres and a few days later I had a complete new replacement of the whole system, even new rubbers for the knobs. A first class service from a first class brand. You get where you pay for.

This Musicman JP Majesty is not a cheap entree level Chinese B+ brand. It is an USA made high quality instrument from a A++++ brand  https://www.music-man.com/instruments/guitars/the-majesty for pictures of this beautiful guitar

[The Soulman]

From my experience repairing stuff, the smaller company's are more helpful and willing (selling specialized parts or sharing documents) than the larger company's albeit an A,B or C brand.
But also had some luck with large A brand mfg's, its all about finding the right person. 

[floobydust]

I did years of corporate electronics repair, one problem is ascertaining if the failure was due to user error/abuse, or a bonafide product failure or an inherent design flaw.

Very few disputes, and if a customer was adamant I would almost always give them warranty/no charge even ~10% past their warranty expiry date.

I remember a repair claimed "warranty" and I took the unit apart and a small dead fish inside. The guy had dropped it off his boat, dried it out and expected a free repair. That did not happen.

But overall, Rigol are taking their name to mean they are disposable products, not a serious T&M investment.

They should at least offer mechanical parts to repair their products, as knobs, switches, rotary encoders etc. have no "technology" and these things get broken or wear out.

[Electro Detective]

I did years of corporate electronics repair, one problem is ascertaining if the failure was due to user error/abuse, or a bonafide product failure or an inherent design flaw.

Very few disputes, and if a customer was adamant I would almost always give them warranty/no charge even ~10% past their warranty expiry date.

I remember a repair claimed "warranty" and I took the unit apart and a small dead fish inside. The guy had dropped it off his boat, dried it out and expected a free repair. That did not happen.

But overall, Rigol are taking their name to mean they are disposable products, not a serious T&M investment.


They should at least offer mechanical parts to repair their products, as knobs, switches, rotary encoders etc. have no "technology" and these things get broken or wear out.

 


This is what the two shafted Rigol owners above expect, a simple practical resolution, knowing they may have to lay down some cash too

They are not dumping a DSO at Rigol's door that swam the Atlantic and expect it fixed,
with any captive fish inside grilled to perfection as compensation for the downtime wait    

Some here have had to deal with degenerates that have tried to cover up abuse of equipment and expect a free ride,
hey it happens occasionally, but the gents above are not that type of customer. 

Whether it's a $400 or $4000 DSO from the same manufacturer, chances are high that parts that eventually wear out like rotary encoders, switches, fans
and everyone's favourite  >  suspect rated OHL manufactured capacitors fitted near hot spots with enough glue to anchor down a steam train    are usually the same parts

Why should the $400 purchaser be discriminated against if they are prepared to pay for parts and or service, be it DIY or at an authorized repairer ?

If the $400 purchaser gets screwed this way, he/she won't be buying another $400 job from the same manufacturer, much less upgrade to an $800 one,
or hit on their boss at work to go for the $4000 bells and whistles model

They'll toss their knackered DSO  (after gutting it for parts  )   and try their luck at another brand for $400 

[jmelson]

We have a Tek digital scope that occasionally flakes out.  Tektronix wanted $1000 or something just to look at it.  Well, I opened it up and reseated all connectors from the power supply to all boards, and it powered up fine.  It does this about once a year, now, same fix.  It is harder to open their box up than to do the fix.

Jon

[Monkeh]

They should at least offer mechanical parts to repair their products, as knobs, switches, rotary encoders etc. have no "technology" and these things get broken or wear out.

Unfortunately doing so is inevitably nothing but a hole to pour money into. There is no profit to be made in shipping a handful of customers a single knob for their scope five years after purchase - there isn't even a breaking even point.

Thankfully, all those parts are trivially available anyway - so they don't have to lose money and you can still perform your repair! (oh no, the knobs don't match, it's unbearable.)

[edavid]

They should at least offer mechanical parts to repair their products, as knobs, switches, rotary encoders etc. have no "technology" and these things get broken or wear out.

Unfortunately doing so is inevitably nothing but a hole to pour money into. There is no profit to be made in shipping a handful of customers a single knob for their scope five years after purchase - there isn't even a breaking even point.

Umm, they are in China... they could pay someone a few yuan to list parts on eBay, make a profit, and have happy customers.

[Monkeh]

They should at least offer mechanical parts to repair their products, as knobs, switches, rotary encoders etc. have no "technology" and these things get broken or wear out.

Unfortunately doing so is inevitably nothing but a hole to pour money into. There is no profit to be made in shipping a handful of customers a single knob for their scope five years after purchase - there isn't even a breaking even point.

Umm, they are in China... they could pay someone a few yuan to list parts on eBay, make a profit, and have happy customers.

Maybe. Then everyone will complain about using eBay. And having to find the right part from a list. And having to wait for it to arrive.

This is a thread of unrealistically high expectations.

[Electro Detective]

If it's that hard for the penny pinching manufacturers to get parts out to customers    

then the penny counting customers may find it hard to purchase new gear from these manufacturers in the future   

This "thread of unrealistically high expectations" is way overdue,
manufacturers should take note and gear themselves up to supply better service
without losing money or charging underhanded ludicrous parts prices 

It's not rocket science, and was done that way for decades before,
most of those reputable companies chasing repeat business are still operating today