Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown

[mrflibble]

There appears the possibility of a 2 Degree span as well 

2 degree span is for wimps. Automated 0.4 degree span with spot measurement assisted level is where it's at today.  And you even can specify what coordinates you want to take the spot measurement from. Other measurements obviously work as well, but I found spot measurement to be convenient.

The coordinates bit I hacked in there because during playing around I got one of those popups. Right in front of usual spot measurement location. And since I didn't want to reboot just yet ... sooooo move the spot measurement somewhere above that silly WARNING dialog box and continue mucking about.

I've been playing around some more today, but I have to say this is one cool bit of gear! Lots of untapped potential still to be had.

[AndyC_772]

For professional or business critical use a hacked unit is a concern as the calibration is void, even if no calibration error has actually been introduced. This is because you are operating the equipment outside of the manufacturers specification for the model.

If having a calibrated / certified piece of equipment is important, surely there's nothing stopping you from sending any camera you like to an independent, accredited calibration lab for independent verification? There's no reason why a cal lab shouldn't be able to provide a certificate showing the error and uncertainty.

[Clint]

ISO based calibration only needs to meet the specification you have documented in your operating policies, so if you have a multimeter, you could effectively only have it calibrated for volts DC - saving money. You could even state you use in house calibration equipment.

For instance we used to calibrate all our field multimeter's that were about 0.5% with 2 externally calibrated 0.01% meters.

A Calibration specialist will calibrate the meters against the manufacturer's specification, if they meet this then it gets passed, they would not even look a firmware version; unless of course the manufacturers specification states a minimum Ver. which I have never seen.

[CzokNorris]

Hi Mike,
cool video about that Audi camera.
I scored on on Ebay here in Germany myself today too. Seems to be identical.
Have you yet found anything that might help to get a picture out of it or any other useful information?
There must be some enable Line or missing voltage or something...

[AndyC_772]

If it's going to cause paperwork problems, then don't go there. I completely agree.

But here's a thought experiment. Suppose you buy a multimeter, and after a few years in service, the voltage reference fails. The original part is unobtainable, so you replace it with a newer part that has a similar (or better) specification, and then send the repaired unit off to be calibrated.

It comes back reading bang-on, of course, with a certificate showing tiny percentage errors on all ranges. It's fixed, it's been tested, it works perfectly well, yet technically it's not quite the same as when it left the factory.

Is it OK to use? Valid scientific measurement of the unit at the cal lab would suggest 'yes', but there will always be a note in the equipment's log which states it was modified.

The question is, for what purpose is the meter now unsuitable, and why?

Could *any* testing restore adequate levels of confidence, for all purposes, in the meter?

[mikeselectricstuff]

Andy C 772,

Not sure that works as you would think.

If you go to a calibration house and ask them to test a piece of hacked equipment, I am sure they will happily test it for you and charge the required sum. BUT would they include a Caveat that the equipment is being operated outside its manufacturers specifications and as such the ongoing calibration is not considered reliable. There will be a very real element of doubt introduced for which the CAL house will protect itself. Also ....would you wish to show someone a CAL cert that says you use hacked equipment ? I wouldn't.

Maybe the professional members of this Forum know more about this as I only have standard equipment calibrated. It may be best to ask the question of a CAL house before buying and hacking a unit,

Calibration does not need to be against a manufacturer's spec. It can be to any spec, so if you tell them 'here's a 320x240 camera, here's our spec' They will test it against that spec.

[Clint]

Postage is expensive to the USA these days. Many warranties are RTB.

I understand some will want to err on the side of caution with a high value item, but from the US these are £640 + £36 shipping ($56) if I need to send the same weight back and covered with insurance it will cost me £53 - worth the gamble to me; especially knowing how super reliable this FLIR kit is.

[Clint]

Bold statement on FLIR's website:

"As the global leader in infrared cameras and thermography equipment, FLIR ensures that your support begins, not ends, at the time of purchase. With over 60 sales and service offices worldwide, you are never far from a FLIR support representative."

The end bit would suggest you can use your new E4 as a tourist

[Clint]

GBP640 ?

GBP794 with VAT & Duty 

Are you a tax man ? if so yes.

[Petrlib]

Thank you so much ! I think - E4 will be good call. One more time - big thank you!!

[Calimero]

And right now - find hack for FLIR TOOLS+ or Flir Reporter 

[lewis]

GBP640 ?

GBP794 with VAT & Duty 

If you negotiate with the UK retailers, at least with PASS, a discount can be secured. My deal was very reasonable even when compared to US prices, low risk and UK centric 

I paid full retail price as advertised on their website - that's the problem with having a bottle of whisky in front of you when you're on the internet at 1am. That's also why it's an extremely good idea for any merchant to have an online shop!

[bean_dip]

I paid full retail price as advertised on their website - that's the problem with having a bottle of whisky in front of you when you're on the internet at 1am. That's also why it's an extremely good idea for any merchant to have an online shop!

Don't feel bad. I bought mine off of Amazon for $995, but after hacking it and seeing the features I've gained for that price (and renting it to my employer for $50 a day for a few days) I honestly am not bothered at all by the price I paid.

I'm half-considering buying one of the questionable $312/ea los of ten from Aliexpress and hacking them into thermal IP cameras using some hardware I've got laying around...

[Taucher]

a) The lens is not an accessory
b) The tripod mount does not appear to exist yet.

@Lens: no wonder - it's not intended to be user-replacable (see shutter, correction settings, calibration values inside camera etc)
@Tripod mount: deliberate strategy of removing features ...

[mikeselectricstuff]

a) The lens is not an accessory
b) The tripod mount does not appear to exist yet.

@Lens: no wonder - it's not intended to be user-replacable (see shutter, correction settings, calibration values inside camera etc)

..but is reasonable to have it available as a spare part. Even better if it comes with an adjustment tool..

[mrflibble]

With regard to hacking software....Hmmm that is a little different to me than what Mick has done with the E4. My moral compass thinks hacking a software product that you do not already own is theft. At least we bought our E4's and modified them. I am no goody 2 shoes but part of my job is anti-malware and anti-hacking !

While certainly a fun moral brainteaser, I take the view that whatever device they sell me at price $xyz is whatever device I receive after paying $xyz. What I do with it after that is my business. 100% disregarding clever bullshit legal boxes they might try to tack on. You sell me the device at whatever price you deem fit. And after that I get to use it as you think I should use it (making the bean counters and/or legal droids happy), or I use it as I deem fit.

While you may argue "but but, I (the seller) did not intend you to use it that way". That is just too bad. You put a physical device with certain characteristics on the market for a certain price. We agreed upon a price. I bought it. The End.

I could continue with A Tretease Concerning the Principles of Launching Lawyers and Politicians Into the Sun, but I shall refrain.

Arbitrary made up legal bullshit aside, and concentrating on the reality of physical devices in your filthy monkey paws ... this E4 is damn nifty. I really love how they (FLIR) exposed all sorts of functionality in a standardized way through this resource tree.

[mrflibble]

FLIR TOOLS+ is appallingly expensive considering the additional functionality that it provides over FLIR TOOLS standard that comes free with the camera.  TOOLS+ is 50% of the E4's cost 

What would you consider the top 3 awesome features in Flir Tools+ ?

[Taucher]

a) The lens is not an accessory
b) The tripod mount does not appear to exist yet.

@Lens: no wonder - it's not intended to be user-replacable (see shutter, correction settings, calibration values inside camera etc)

..but is reasonable to have it available as a spare part. Even better if it comes with an adjustment tool..

I guess the whole concept is to offer "service" to the customer, no need for the customer to take apart things... just send it to Flir, say "fix please" and pay a premium

[Taucher]

Taucher....My issue is that I askedFLIR customer support for a spare parts quote and got referred to my dealer when I know that such a part is not a common dealer item ! Less than impressed with the standard "go to your dealer" response.

Sure, but what else shall be expected form a company that is used to governments and other highly financed institutions as customers...

My point here: let them live - we're hacking the item out of spec - so don't expect their service policy to change just because we would like it to provide us with even better options... the only thing that one can expect is that the original item works as described by the manufacturer.

If my wishes would come true, then there would be a cheap frontface-replacement which adds a tripod mount there, has a quickchange system for lenses etc...
... but I guess then I'd better have bought an Exx series at first place

My E4₂8+ is a bargain when comparing the image quality to the initial price - and I'm very happy with it - not perfect, but mine!

[ixfd64]

With regard to hacking software....Hmmm that is a little different to me than what Mick has done with the E4. My moral compass thinks hacking a software product that you do not already own is theft. At least we bought our E4's and modified them. I am no goody 2 shoes but part of my job is anti-malware and anti-hacking !

While certainly a fun moral brainteaser, I take the view that whatever device they sell me at price $xyz is whatever device I receive after paying $xyz. What I do with it after that is my business. 100% disregarding clever bullshit legal boxes they might try to tack on. You sell me the device at whatever price you deem fit. And after that I get to use it as you think I should use it (making the bean counters and/or legal droids happy), or I use it as I deem fit.

While you may argue "but but, I (the seller) did not intend you to use it that way". That is just too bad. You put a physical device with certain characteristics on the market for a certain price. We agreed upon a price. I bought it. The End.

I could continue with A Tretease Concerning the Principles of Launching Lawyers and Politicians Into the Sun, but I shall refrain.

Arbitrary made up legal bullshit aside, and concentrating on the reality of physical devices in your filthy monkey paws ... this E4 is damn nifty. I really love how they (FLIR) exposed all sorts of functionality in a standardized way through this resource tree.

I agree with both points. The hardware you buy is legally yours, so you are free to do what you please with it. However, the user does not own the software he or she buys; they are only licensed to use it. So yeah, modifying the software could open a can of legal worms.

[georges80]

For a lens adjustment tool, we have a 3d printer at work (makerbot). I've drawn up what I think is a tool that fits the 10 notches in the E4 lens. I will attempt to print it tomorrow and see if it fits based on some less than stellar measurements I took with a pair of calipers.

If it doesn't fit I'll refine it. Once I get it working I'll post up the sketchup/stl file for anyone that want's to make one or modify to suit their needs.

Unless someone beats me to it...

cheers,
george.

[mrflibble]

Before I forget to mention it...

The "Mike Hack" does NOT constitute 1 configuration. In fact, it is 2 configurations which combine into 1. I forget the exact term right now, but it's in the boot logs.

What happens is that the all configs are read from the .d dirs and then combined into 1. So while currently things are working out just fine, be aware that all the configs are being read, and then either "first come, first serve" or "last encountered" rules apply.

And while we are on the topic of legalities. I can take The Product into E8 mode without "hacking" any files. All I need to do is use the Flir sanctioned resource tree, and problem solved. So you gimme a stock E4, I press some buttons, type some stuff in a telnet prompt and I'm good to go.

[Taucher]

For a lens adjustment tool, we have a 3d printer at work (makerbot). I've drawn up what I think is a tool that fits the 10 notches in the E4 lens. I will attempt to print it tomorrow and see if it fits based on some less than stellar measurements I took with a pair of calipers.

If it doesn't fit I'll refine it. Once I get it working I'll post up the sketchup/stl file for anyone that want's to make one or modify to suit their needs.

Unless someone beats me to it...

cheers,
george.

My posting #1094 here could interest you - it contains a .stl file that might also work - I even took the lens out to do the measurements - but had no time to fabricate it yet - https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/flir-e4-thermal-imaging-camera-teardown/msg326820/#msg326820

[georges80]

For a lens adjustment tool, we have a 3d printer at work (makerbot). I've drawn up what I think is a tool that fits the 10 notches in the E4 lens. I will attempt to print it tomorrow and see if it fits based on some less than stellar measurements I took with a pair of calipers.

If it doesn't fit I'll refine it. Once I get it working I'll post up the sketchup/stl file for anyone that want's to make one or modify to suit their needs.

Unless someone beats me to it...

cheers,
george.

My posting #1094 here could interest you - it contains a .stl file that might also work - I even took the lens out to do the measurements - but had no time to fabricate it yet - https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/flir-e4-thermal-imaging-camera-teardown/msg326820/#msg326820

Funny, I didn't even notice that post (this thread is soooo long now). Anyhow, my 'version' looks identical to yours so we'll see if it does indeed work.

If so, then I'll add some cone shape to the outside top to provide better finger grip for adjusting.

I'll download your file to look at it. But, from my measurements I think it is 12mm outside diameter and the 10 spokes (spaced equally at 36 deg) are a 2mm diameter semicircle sitting on the 12mm OD. Anyhow, that's from my rough measurements.

I'll find out tomorrow if it fits...

cheers,
george.

[Taucher]

My posting #1094 here could interest you - it contains a .stl file that might also work - I even took the lens out to do the measurements - but had no time to fabricate it yet - https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/flir-e4-thermal-imaging-camera-teardown/msg326820/#msg326820

If so, then I'll add some cone shape to the outside top to provide better finger grip for adjusting.

I'll download your file to look at it. But, from my measurements I think it is 12mm outside diameter and the 10 spokes (spaced equally at 36 deg) are a 2mm diameter semicircle sitting on the 12mm OD. Anyhow, that's from my rough measurements.

I made the model to:
11,867mm diameter,
0,99mm radius on the 10 spokes

Attached the original version which could be cool to 3D print where I had added a grip

EDIT: link first feedback:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/flir-e4-thermal-imaging-camera-teardown/msg330321/#msg330321