Author Topic: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703  (Read 38870 times)

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Offline joeqsmithTopic starter

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #75 on: October 10, 2017, 04:28:12 am »
What is all this stuff from CLOUDFLARENET  ....  Oops, I guess that one needs to stay.  :-DD

Anyway, I'm just running DD-WRT in a Linksys router.  Seems simple enough to telnet in and set it up.  I have not been able to get the command window to stick yet.  I can save it and tell it to run it at boot.  But after a power cycle, telnet in and the iptables are not set correctly.  Guessing it is just lack of sleep and something stupid.     

Offline stj

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #76 on: October 10, 2017, 07:40:08 am »
DD-WRT is VERY old,
you should look into LEDA.
https://lede-project.org/
 

Offline BradC

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #77 on: October 10, 2017, 08:11:57 am »
Warms my heart to stick it to them...   This what happens when you press a few keys on the windows 10 calculator... :-DD

Unfortunately for my day to day work I *need* windows. Fortunately I've been virtualizing it since Windows 95, so I've kinda learned to work around stuff where required.

On the whole I've always found Windows was *more* reliable under virtualization and (at least in pre-Win8 versions) often snappier. There are a few follow-on advantages to that :
- You can completely deny it access to the outside world.
- You can easily and frequently snapshot the machine so you can install/test software and roll back with zero consequences.
- No issues with Virus/Trojan because of the first 2 points.
- Hardware upgrades on a whim with zero driver issues (and consequential WGA headaches if you actually run that stuff).
- No issues with updates or the OS trying to do things behind your back.

Certainly not for everybody, but for my use case it's a super low maintenance option that has far more advantages than disadvantages. Like I said though, I've been using Linux on the desktop full time since about 1996 with windows in a box (TrelOS it was back then from memory, then Win4Lin, Qemu with the KQEMU proprietary accelerator, and now QEMU/KVM). I played with VirtualBox for a while and I've had a good go at VMWare, but always got better results *for my use case* using the Qemu based stuff.

I did spend quite a bit of time watching Windows 10 in a box to see what it spoke to, but I gave up after a while as even with all the published tweaks there was no way to keep it quiet.
Fortunately the software I have that will only run on stuff later than 7 will run on 8.1 and I've got a nice trimmed SOE of that which behaves nicely in a VM so I haven't had to use 10 in anger yet. It did seem to get upset and leave a lot of gumph in the event logs when it couldn't phone home, particularly as it could resolve DNS.
 

Offline joeqsmithTopic starter

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #78 on: October 10, 2017, 04:39:42 pm »
DD-WRT is VERY old,
you should look into LEDA.
https://lede-project.org/
Switching to newer is what got me here in the first place :-DD :-DD   

Besides being another "new" spinoff, I saw where they were attempting to make it stable, what benefits does it offer?   I was looking to see if I could find some sort of matrix comparing the various flavors.   I've been running DD-WRT for some time and it's been rock solid.  I really don't do much with it beyond just using it. 

http://www.zdnet.com/article/dd-wrt-linux-firmware-comes-to-linksys-routers/

I forgot to add that if you use WRT, store your iptable scripts in the firewall, not the startup.  Lack of sleep.  Works fine. 
« Last Edit: October 10, 2017, 04:59:38 pm by joeqsmith »
 

Offline marshallh

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #79 on: October 10, 2017, 08:18:14 pm »
My biggest gripe has been the auto-rebooting. I got Win10 first on my laptop, and noticed that it would even *wake itself out of hibernation* while in my backpack to start applying updates. Actually, it would spin and spin for an hour, then it would fail to hibernate again.

As a result, the battery would be totally flat when I powered it on the next day even though it started with 90% the previous day when I'd  put it into hibernation.

Win10 Enterprise was said to have policy options for disabling this completely ridiculous behavior. I picked up Win10 Enterprise for my desktop PC, set group policy, and figured my days of losing work were over... but not so!
It turns out that even in Enterprise, Windows actually ignores its own group policies set to disable auto rebooting. Eventually people found out how to hack the registry to work around this.

Thus began a 2 year game of cat and mouse where Microsoft would change the reboot policy behavior and schemes with every major update, breaking the fixes before it. My desktop PC would wake itself at 2am out of hibernation and burn 100% cpu applying updates, then never shut off. Eventually after enoguh corporate customers and important people reminded MS how idiotic they were, the problems lessened.


However, I still have to physically remove my laptop battery when it's stored in hibernation or I risk updates ruining it and melting the bottom of my backpack.


Other than that, W10 works well for me  :palm:  :phew:
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Offline rsjsouza

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #80 on: October 10, 2017, 09:03:15 pm »
My biggest gripe has been the auto-rebooting. I got Win10 first on my laptop, and noticed that it would even *wake itself out of hibernation* while in my backpack to start applying updates. Actually, it would spin and spin for an hour, then it would fail to hibernate again.

As a result, the battery would be totally flat when I powered it on the next day even though it started with 90% the previous day when I'd  put it into hibernation.

Win10 Enterprise was said to have policy options for disabling this completely ridiculous behavior. I picked up Win10 Enterprise for my desktop PC, set group policy, and figured my days of losing work were over... but not so!
It turns out that even in Enterprise, Windows actually ignores its own group policies set to disable auto rebooting. Eventually people found out how to hack the registry to work around this.

Thus began a 2 year game of cat and mouse where Microsoft would change the reboot policy behavior and schemes with every major update, breaking the fixes before it. My desktop PC would wake itself at 2am out of hibernation and burn 100% cpu applying updates, then never shut off. Eventually after enoguh corporate customers and important people reminded MS how idiotic they were, the problems lessened.


However, I still have to physically remove my laptop battery when it's stored in hibernation or I risk updates ruining it and melting the bottom of my backpack.


Other than that, W10 works well for me  :palm:  :phew:
Precisely this. At work we moved one of our PCs to Win10 before IT adopted it and it was a nightmare - I would say the problem is, as you mentioned, not auto-rebooting but auto powering up/wake up. I also had the same issue with flattened batteries out of nowhere only to find out the damn OS was doing the favor of leaving "All your files are exactly where you left them".

Since after IT adopted it and my notebook was "updated", I have noticed an improvement in this BS. Also, since the reboots are mandated by IT after applying updates (even on my previous beloved Win7 laptop), I can't distinguish anymore what is Win10 exclusive.

Oh well... Hopefully this gets sorted out by the time I am forced to make a decision.
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Offline Lightages

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Offline Syntax_Error

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #82 on: October 11, 2017, 12:20:17 am »
Makes me want to start a small business just for the sole purpose of being a 100% non-Microsoft shop. Just to prove it can be done.

I type this on my W10 laptop as the fan churns away while downloading monthly updates.
It's perfectly acceptable to not know something in the short term. To continue to not know over the long term is just laziness.
 

Offline stj

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #83 on: October 11, 2017, 08:38:07 am »
 :-DD

i type this on my Debian laptop while finding the entire situation hilarious.
for the record, i'v been using linux since everybody was raving about that new o.s. called windows2k that had install cd's that could explode in your drive!!
 :scared:
 :palm:
 

Offline joeqsmithTopic starter

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #84 on: October 11, 2017, 10:21:09 am »
As I mentioned, NI did or still does support LINUX but the last time I checked, it was very limited.  Similar to their 64-bit version. 

I used to run the Altera tools on a Sun.  I wonder if Xilinx, Altera, Lattice, fully support them now.   

MPLABX runs on it but it seems I ran into a problem with their hardware under LINUX.  That could have been me.   

Looking at my spectrum analyzer, they have an API that will work with Ubuntu 14.04 but not a turn key copy of their main software.

I have ran OpenOffice and would be willing to use it.  Last I looked, they did not have a flavor that supported Project. 

Any sort of CAD packages I looked at for LINIX were not usable.  Again, it has been a few years since I looked at it. 

If Windows went away, I am sure the tool providers would switch to some flavor of LINUX.  Maybe they are waiting to see if one flavor dominates over the others.   Anytime I have looked, the tool suppliers are VERY specific about what it would work on and no support.  It seemed more like throwing a bone to the academics groups that an all out effort to support a different OS then Windows.   Can't say I blame them.  Better to support the majority when it comes to business. 

Offline joeqsmithTopic starter

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #85 on: October 11, 2017, 10:39:12 am »
PC ran all yesterday with no applications but Wireshark.  My second attempt has some impact but eventually they got through.  I even saw some data to Inktomi Corp  :-DD.  Maybe the whois database is out of date.    Akamai was another that was really bad and I started adding them as well.   Even Google and Yahoo seem to have a few hooks.   I let the new tables run through the night and nothing new came up.   :-+

Offline jaromir

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #86 on: October 11, 2017, 12:51:59 pm »
As I mentioned, NI did or still does support LINUX but the last time I checked, it was very limited.  Similar to their 64-bit version. 
I used to run the Altera tools on a Sun.  I wonder if Xilinx, Altera, Lattice, fully support them now.   
MPLABX runs on it but it seems I ran into a problem with their hardware under LINUX.  That could have been me.   

No problems with tools from Altera, Xilinx and Lattice (yes, I tried all three of them) on Linux Mint 18 (I'd assume the same on Ubuntu).
Again, no problems with MPLABX. It's more snappy and usable on my two core sub-notebook with Linux than on my office-work computer with quad core i7 under windows. Hardware tools do work with no problem at all, at least the ones I tried - PicKit3, ICD3 and Curiosity boards.
 

Offline HoracioDos

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #87 on: October 11, 2017, 12:54:28 pm »
I have ran OpenOffice and would be willing to use it.  Last I looked, they did not have a flavor that supported Project. 
Linux lacks of good project management tools. You can download ProjectLibre. It's an old tool that was resurrected this year. Jan 2017 version works fine (Linux and Win). Interface is not pretty but features are ok. (You can open and save ms project files) https://sourceforge.net/projects/projectlibre/

I didn't find any good and free web based app to edit ms project files.

For an Office Suite, I like LibreOffice better.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2017, 12:57:45 pm by HoracioDos »
 

Offline ElektroQuark

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #88 on: October 11, 2017, 01:00:31 pm »
Beware: it looks like the cumulative update of October shows the BSOD on some systems after reboot.

Offline HoracioDos

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #89 on: October 11, 2017, 01:10:14 pm »
Beware: it looks like the cumulative update of October shows the BSOD on some systems after reboot.
I applied fixes yesterday without any problem
 

Offline ElektroQuark

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #90 on: October 11, 2017, 01:11:30 pm »
So you have one of the "other systems".

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #91 on: October 11, 2017, 03:04:30 pm »
:-DD

i type this on my Debian laptop while finding the entire situation hilarious.
for the record, i'v been using linux since everybody was raving about that new o.s. called windows2k that had install cd's that could explode in your drive!!
 :scared:
 :palm:
That's hilarious, except that a lot of the major engineering software packages aren't available on Debian, or any other Linux flavour. Why do you think people like us put up with Microsoft? It's certainly not because they have never considered Linux.
 

Offline stj

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #92 on: October 11, 2017, 05:14:39 pm »
well wine is pretty good,
not perfect but not bad.

what software are you running?
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #93 on: October 11, 2017, 05:33:18 pm »
well wine is pretty good,
not perfect but not bad.

what software are you running?
"Pretty good" isn't going to cut it if it's not supported by the developer. As soon as you start mucking about with Wine, you trade one pain for another.
 

Offline stj

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #94 on: October 11, 2017, 06:08:21 pm »
when you consider that "windows" is not a product, but a line,
with lots of sub versions of library's etc. i dont see your argument being any different with a m$ o.s.
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #95 on: October 11, 2017, 06:23:18 pm »
when you consider that "windows" is not a product, but a line,
with lots of sub versions of library's etc. i dont see your argument being any different with a m$ o.s.
Sure it is. If you use an OS that's supported by the developer - which typically means Windows 7 and beyond - and problem you find is their problem. If you start mucking with Wine, any problem becomes your problem, without guarantee of anything being fixed.

There is a reason people pay ridiculous amounts of money for things like FirePro and Quadro cards. In some generations, the hardware is even exactly the same as the consumer cards, but the support is completely different.
 

Offline joeqsmithTopic starter

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #96 on: October 11, 2017, 10:12:42 pm »
As I mentioned, NI did or still does support LINUX but the last time I checked, it was very limited.  Similar to their 64-bit version. 
I used to run the Altera tools on a Sun.  I wonder if Xilinx, Altera, Lattice, fully support them now.   
MPLABX runs on it but it seems I ran into a problem with their hardware under LINUX.  That could have been me.   

No problems with tools from Altera, Xilinx and Lattice (yes, I tried all three of them) on Linux Mint 18 (I'd assume the same on Ubuntu).
Again, no problems with MPLABX. It's more snappy and usable on my two core sub-notebook with Linux than on my office-work computer with quad core i7 under windows. Hardware tools do work with no problem at all, at least the ones I tried - PicKit3, ICD3 and Curiosity boards.

I looked up Quartus and it seems they only support some version of Redhat.  Same old same old.  Found a pretty good article where someone attempted to get it running under Ubuntu.   Strange as I would have thought Ubuntu would be the major player now days.    But again, I don't follow the GNU trend.    I also looked at LabVIEW.  It's really stripped and again tied to specific versions.   I would not mind changing to LINUX but it seems premature.  Maybe the lack of a common stable version keeps it from moving ahead.  I was using Slackware but started with LXI.  There were so many flavors, it seems like a nightmare for companies to try and support. 

I've been using Ubuntu (a few years  old now) and was pretty impressed how easy it was to get going compared with the Slackware days. 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #97 on: October 11, 2017, 11:02:48 pm »
I looked up Quartus and it seems they only support some version of Redhat.  Same old same old.  Found a pretty good article where someone attempted to get it running under Ubuntu.   Strange as I would have thought Ubuntu would be the major player now days.    But again, I don't follow the GNU trend.    I also looked at LabVIEW.  It's really stripped and again tied to specific versions.   I would not mind changing to LINUX but it seems premature.  Maybe the lack of a common stable version keeps it from moving ahead.  I was using Slackware but started with LXI.  There were so many flavors, it seems like a nightmare for companies to try and support. 

I've been using Ubuntu (a few years  old now) and was pretty impressed how easy it was to get going compared with the Slackware days.
Currently, I see two problems with the various Linux flavours. Like you say, Ubuntu really is quite good out of the box. However, as we've established, the support from manufacturers in some areas isn't enough to make it a viable alternative. Professionals generally don't have the luxury of tinkering with things too much.

Another problem I see is that things quickly become murky when you can't use the GUI to set or install something. That seems to be a bit more common than it is in Windows. I'm not saying that's Windows always provides a streamlined experience, quite on the contrary, but there generally is some ancient tool available to do what you need to do. If you're not a Linux veteran, getting something done outside of the GUI often boils down to the fervent Googling and trying of what basically are magic spells. Sometimes they work, sometimes they don't, and the how and why generally is rather unclear. To make matters worse: the GUI experience often is quite different from distro to distro, with the same distro even offering several desktop environments. The most consistent experience is the CLI, but that has the aforementioned problem of a very steep learning.

I'd really wish Linux would finally become a fully viable alternative to Microsoft and Apple products. For general day to day computer use, browsing and multimedia consumption, I think it's mostly there. Maybe 2018 will finally be the year of Linux?  ;D
 

Offline joeqsmithTopic starter

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #98 on: October 11, 2017, 11:26:21 pm »
Maybe 2018 will finally be the year of Linux?  ;D
When I first saw LINUX, a friend brought it to the house and we were playing with Windows 95 and could not get the serial ports to work.  I was commenting about how serial ports have been around longer than I have and it how bad it was that a team at MS could not figure out how they worked.   Sadly, I ran into National Instruments screwing up the serial ports a few years ago and everything was done for them with the OS.  But I digress.   We were using HP UNIX workstations back then and he fired up LINIX and we launched X.  I was blown away.  It looked like the real deal.   Many years later, the same friend and I went to an electronic store and here on the shelves were boxes of LINUX distributions.  We thought, this is finally it.  They have it in retail stores now.  That's been at least 20 years ago.    :-DD   

I used to get those Infomagic CD sets with all the distributions on it.  No high speed internet in my life back then.  I would spend days going through them.  I was young and had time to play with such things.    LINUX is a young mans game.   

Offline joeqsmithTopic starter

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #99 on: October 11, 2017, 11:38:22 pm »
The router block solution continues to look pretty good but I think the old router will need to be replaced.  It's pretty old so I am limited what DD-WRT I can run.  So no iprange support.  The iptable entries was getting very large and it was slowing down the old router.  To get around this, I decided to more loosely block the ranges with the mask.  Basically throwing out my access to some sites, somewhere.  Chances are good I would never hit one.

Basically, I run Wireshark with windows sitting idle.  Sort the IPs when I am done.  Lookup who owns them.  If MS or that multi-meadia BS, I add the range to a text file.  Copy paste into this app and copy paste the new script to the router. 

I keep waiting for Windows 10 to go into some sort of cripple mode as it knows it is on the net and sees the DNS return valid IPs.  It keeps trying and fails.  Non-stop.  It's not smart enough to know I am telling them to piss off. 

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