Rigol DS1054Z vs Siglent SDS1202X-E

[karkoon]

I encountered the triggering issue on my scope as well. Being a noob I wasn't sure if I am using the scope incorrectly or this is a real issue. Thank you for reporting it though.

I was trying to see microphone input signal on the scope.

Now will wait for the software update.


Typed with thumbs.

[exe]

JFYI, Siglent told me they will release new firmware in early July.

[karkoon]

Ok


Typed with thumbs.

[boggis the cat]

Can you please check on this? I didn't find this function. I also asked the consultant, he said it's only for more expensive scopes. I do see "VPO" logo on the front panel, but I'm not sure what it does.

I'm fairly sure that the GW Instek GDS-1054B had intensity grading.  It is only 50 MHz bandwidth (although closer to 100 MHz in reality), and lacks protocol decoding, but you get four channels and less bugs.  It uses the same processor found in the Siglent 1202X-E, and has similar memory depth etc.

I think that the 2000 series are older, and of course more expensive.

Dave's teardown has some faffing about (technical term) from around the 31:00 mark -- https://youtu.be/9SXZk2tsQ4g

Having said this: probably worth waiting a while if the new firmware for the Siglent is due soon (although it appears to have slipped from June to July, now).  Ideally they will have been verifying and fixing the various bugs that have been found so far, and may have decided another needs fixing.  We'll see...

[Gandalf_Sr]

Amazon are listing the SDS1102X at a great price, how does this compare with the SDS1102X-E?  Does the SDS1102X come with free serial decoding?

Thanks

[nctnico]

Can you please check on this? I didn't find this function. I also asked the consultant, he said it's only for more expensive scopes. I do see "VPO" logo on the front panel, but I'm not sure what it does.

I'm fairly sure that the GW Instek GDS-1054B had intensity grading.  It is only 50 MHz bandwidth (although closer to 100 MHz in reality), and lacks protocol decoding, but you get four channels and less bugs.  It uses the same processor found in the Siglent 1202X-E, and has similar memory depth etc.

I think that the 2000 series are older, and of course more expensive.

The GW Instek GDS2000E series also uses the Zync and has protocol decoding. Basically it is an extended version of the GDS1000B series with a bigger display and more features. Yes, the GDS2000E series is more expensive but it works as specified the minute you take it from the box and plug it in.

[tautech]

Amazon are listing the SDS1102X at a great price, how does this compare with the SDS1102X-E?

SDS1202X-E ^^^
SDS1102X has slightly larger form factor, larger display, 50 inputs, 100 MHz vs 200 MHz, more mature product. The 1102X has less FFT points and is missing a couple of new feature that have been added into the 1202X-E UI. The UI is otherwise very very similar.

Does the SDS1102X come with free serial decoding?

It should do but the promo that includes it free is set to expire July 1.
To be sure you need check with the seller.


BTW, was the FW in your SPD3303X-E the most recent ?

[Fungus]

Does the SDS1102X come with free serial decoding?

If it does, it's a dealer offer. It's not included as standard.

[exe]

OMG, now even the second channel stopped capturing at 0.2V/div and below (attenuation 1x). But sort of good news: re-calibration solved this issue on both channels.

I know that some guys will start shouting that I "didn't warm-up the scope", "left probes attached", etc. No, that's not the case, I take calibration instructions seriously. Moreover, I tried to do self-calibration on a cold unit with a probe and a BNC cable attached, but it couldn't finish it(I had to disconnect cables). I even tried to change probe attenuation (1x-10x), tried to connect and disconnect cable from signal generator, etc. So, no way I forgot to disconnect probes before calibrating.

[boggis the cat]

OMG, now even the second channel stopped capturing at 0.2V/div and below (attenuation 1x). But sort of good news: re-calibration solved this issue on both channels.

That seems odd.  Could be a software issue, I suppose.

Have you tried reloading the factory defaults?

From the manual:

Press Save/Recall function key, then press “Save” menu select “To Default Key” set the
type to “Factory Setup”. Then press the Default button on the front to set the oscilloscope
to the leave factory setup. Another way is press Save/Recall function key, then press
“Recall” menu select “Factory Default” to recall.

Hopefully that would clear out any erroneous settings, and start from a 'clean slate'.

[Gandalf_Sr]

Amazon are listing the SDS1102X at a great price, how does this compare with the SDS1102X-E?

SDS1202X-E ^^^
SDS1102X has slightly larger form factor, larger display, 50 inputs, 100 MHz vs 200 MHz, more mature product. The 1102X has less FFT points and is missing a couple of new feature that have been added into the 1202X-E UI. The UI is otherwise very very similar.

Does the SDS1102X have a less powerful processor?

Does the SDS1102X come with free serial decoding?

It should do but the promo that includes it free is set to expire July 1.
To be sure you need check with the seller.


BTW, was the FW in your SPD3303X-E the most recent ?

My SPD3303X-E came with software Vn 1.01.01.02.02R2 which I think is not quite the latest although it does display the set V/A in a smaller font above the actual values.

[exe]

Have you tried reloading the factory defaults?

Yes, it didn't help. I think factory defaults do not affect calibration.

[tautech]

Amazon are listing the SDS1102X at a great price, how does this compare with the SDS1102X-E?

SDS1202X-E ^^^
SDS1102X has slightly larger form factor, larger display, 50 inputs, 100 MHz vs 200 MHz, more mature product. The 1102X has less FFT points and is missing a couple of new feature that have been added into the 1202X-E UI. The UI is otherwise very very similar.

Does the SDS1102X have a less powerful processor?

Yes.

BTW, was the FW in your SPD3303X-E the most recent ?

My SPD3303X-E came with software Vn 1.01.01.02.02R2 which I think is not quite the latest although it does display the set V/A in a smaller font above the actual values.

Correct, the latest is 2R3:
Summary of Changes:
1) Add the CH3’s SCPI control command.
2) Fixed bug relating to the voltage setup.
3) Remove the screen saver.
You might want to update it to remove the screensaver that we wonder why was ever included. 

[Gandalf_Sr]

I have been considering buying the SDS1202X-E for a to-go scope that I could throw in my car and take to client sites or to my vacation cottage but the bugs that exe is experiencing are putting me off.  Does he have a bad unit or are these bugs repeatable?  Also looks like a 4 channel -E version may be close given some of the comments here.

Can anyone shed any light on these questions?

[TK]

I have been considering buying the SDS1202X-E for a to-go scope that I could throw in my car and take to client sites or to my vacation cottage but the bugs that exe is experiencing are putting me off.  Does he have a bad unit or are these bugs repeatable?  Also looks like a 4 channel -E version may be close given some of the comments here.

Can anyone shed any light on these questions?

If you need a portable battery operated scope, you might consider the Micsig TO1104 tablet oscilloscope, 4 channels.

[nctnico]

I have been considering buying the SDS1202X-E for a to-go scope that I could throw in my car and take to client sites or to my vacation cottage but the bugs that exe is experiencing are putting me off.  Does he have a bad unit or are these bugs repeatable?  Also looks like a 4 channel -E version may be close given some of the comments here.

Can anyone shed any light on these questions?

If you need a portable battery operated scope, you might consider the Micsig TO1104 tablet oscilloscope, 4 channels.

I agree. A battery powered scope is definitely handy to brind along especially if it is not a crippled one like so many handheld scopes. I like my TO1104 as a scope to grab for a quick measurement because I don't have to plug it into the mains first.

[Fungus]

I have been considering buying the SDS1202X-E for a to-go scope that I could throw in my car and take to client sites or to my vacation cottage but the bugs that exe is experiencing are putting me off.  Does he have a bad unit or are these bugs repeatable?

They're repeatable but it's a brand new model of 'scope and the first firmware update is due Real Soon Now. Try waiting for that update before deciding.

On the other hand why not get the people's favorite, the extensively tested DS1054Z? It's about the same price and you get four channels.

Also looks like a 4 channel -E version may be close given some of the comments here.

Nobody knows what 'close' means. It might be six months.

By the time it arrives there might be something even better on the horizon, what then? 

"There might be a something better soon" is never a good purchasing consideration.

[Pitrsek]

Hi,
since I've been shopping for a scope for my home lab, I tough I'd share with my experience.

Siglent 1202X-E
Nice things:
Memory depth
Bandwidth
Decoding
math
FFT
Nice trace rendering
Price
quite responsive!
gated measurements - you can select time interval where are the measurements carried out.

Not so nice things:
not easy to get a loan/test-drive. You have to buy it, but you can and send it back within 14 days if you don't like it.
Automatic roll for slow time-base - this drive me nuts
no fine timebase adjustment - at least I was not able to figure it out
Can not tigger on channel that is not used
When using long memory it slows down
My LabView friend was not able to get it working in LV

what would make this scope better:
bug fixes
better FFT control - rudimentary
option for full screen mode - there is quite a lot unused screen estate
4 channels

Verdict:
A rather nice budget scope. Yes, there are some bugs, and if you are not in hurry I would definitely  wait a bit to see them resolved before opening your wallet. But all in all, I was positively surprised with it.

We had it for a two weeks, after that my friend decided to provide a new home for this particular unit. He needed the bandwidth. For me, I've discovered that going back to two channels is way harder than imagined. My daily driver is 4 channel Agilent 2k. If your budget is tight and you can live with 2ch, this scope deserve a closer look.

/rant on
On one side I'd like to give some praise to Siglent marketing department for going for 200MHz bandwidth and serial decoding in this price range. On the other hand, they blown it big time. For a price of two more analog front ends, they could have had THE budget scope to have, "New DS1054Z". 4 channels at 100Mhz, FFT, serial decoding, 200MHz when used 2 channels and less.  Now it's just another budget scope in the eternal "should I buy DS1054Z or this XXXX  scope" dilema... So close. Maybe the next time.
/rant off

Rigol 2072

I do not have personal experience with DS1054, but I have tested 2072
At first sight, I liked it a lot(mainly the screen). All love was gone in 2min.
Imagine that you are controlling the scope with rubber bands, or that you are really drunk...  My life is too short for this kind of stuff. Was off my table in 5min. It was a huge letdown, I had a great experience with 1062CA. When describing behavior to a friend with DS1054, he concurred  that "UI is quite slow". Since they are quite widespread, it should not be too hard to find someone in your area and see if it drives you nuts or not. 

Keysight X1000
Nice stuff:
2+1channel
can trigger from disabled channel
responsive
brand name/quality/distribution - not a problem to have it loaned for test drive.

ugly stuff:
memory depth.
price - big time. Decoding ? open your wallet. 100Mhz bandwidth ? yep, open your wallet.
rudimentary math

Verdict:
Nice scope with wrong price tag. I do not know what is current status of hacking. If you can hack edux into the full deal, it might be worth it.
Other models are IMHO too expensive. 


What scope did I decided to buy for my home lab? None yet. Currently I'm trying to get a better price for 1054B from GW Instek. If they offered it in Europe for a similar price as in US, I probably would have had it on my desk already... 

[kcbrown]

What scope did I decided to buy for my home lab? None yet. Currently I'm trying to get a better price for 1054B from GW Instek. If they offered it in Europe for a similar price as in US, I probably would have had it on my desk already...

Do you need/want decoding?  If so, the Instek 1054B is off the table.  It doesn't have it, period.

[Pitrsek]

Yes, I know.
I don't need the scope to do bus decoding.

[Gandalf_Sr]

Thanks for the suggestions but a battery scope is not what i want.  Actually I have an Agilent MSO7104B as my main scope and a Rigol MSO2702a as backup but they are both plumbed into my main workbench which I'm hesitant to rip apart every time I want to go to the lake for the weekend or call on a client for a day; hence my desire for something reasonably priced that will do most things I might need for everyday testing.

[kcbrown]

Yes, I know.
I don't need the scope to do bus decoding.

Ah, okay.   That wasn't clear because you listed decoding as advantages for a couple of the models, so I thought perhaps that was of interest to you.

Seems to me that if you don't need or particularly care about decoding, the Instek would basically be the clear winner due to its combination of price, number of channels, and overall capability.  Even with an elevated price in Europe, it still looks like a winner. 

Unless, that is, they're tripling the price over there or something ridiculous like that.  Just how much is GDS-1054B over there, anyway?



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Pitrsek]

@kcbrown
List price is 500eur = cca 570usd. They run discounts to 450eur = cca 504usd.
It seems that list price in USA is 430usd, there is a running discount at www.tequipment.net, they offer it for 360usd(eevblog discount not counted in, dunno if its applicable for items that are already discounted). All are prices without  VAT. So not really tripling, but a cca 33% more expensive in EU. 40% if you compare discount pricing...

So I can have it delivered form www.tequipment.net (pay 50usd shipping, 105usd customs handling fee + tax/vat) for the roughly the same price I would pay local distributor without VAT. And I could place a nice sticker on it "traveled 2/3 around the world". Yes, there is "ripp of Europe tax", but 30%-40% seems kinda excessive...

For comparison,  SDS1202X-E goes for 379usd from saelig, and for 402usd in Europe from batronix. A roughly 6% markup. Go figure.

[boggis the cat]

I have been considering buying the SDS1202X-E for a to-go scope that I could throw in my car and take to client sites or to my vacation cottage but the bugs that exe is experiencing are putting me off.  Does he have a bad unit or are these bugs repeatable?

They're repeatable but it's a brand new model of 'scope and the first firmware update is due Real Soon Now. Try waiting for that update before deciding.

Reproducible is the way to determine if something is not isolated.  There could be an issue with exe's particular unit, and an issue repeatable with that same unit only verifies that the issue is present.  I have not seen anyone else noting that these same issues were found.

(Software issues can be subtle, and difficult for others to replicate.  These may be bugs affecting all units or a result of a fault in one unit.)

On the other hand why not get the people's favorite, the extensively tested DS1054Z? It's about the same price and you get four channels.

There are plenty of issues with this 'scope, as well.  You seem to be assuming that anyone choosing something different is mistakenly overlooking the Rigol, despite it being heavily bought and used extensively.

[Fungus]

I have not seen anyone else noting that these same issues were found.

There simply aren't many of them out there yet.

On the other hand why not get the people's favorite, the extensively tested DS1054Z? It's about the same price and you get four channels.

There are plenty of issues with this 'scope, as well.  You seem to be assuming that anyone choosing something different is mistakenly overlooking the Rigol, despite it being heavily bought and used extensively.

No, I'm saying "better the devil you know".

And there aren't many issues these days.