Windows is getting disgusting

[German_EE]

I could not have put it better.

Here is the problem with Linux (and I speak here as a daily Linux user). I could configure a Linux PC that would provide a very close emulation of a Windows 7 machine but instead use Firefox and Libre Office, this would be a good choice for a large number of MS Windows users. I could create a second Linux PC that provided a backup storage system for someone with a media library complete with automated backups and a RAID array. I could also configure a Linux PC that could operate as a high performance computing engine which, until a few years ago, would have been classed as a super computer under US export restrictions.

In each case I would be using exactly the  same Linux software but only the configuration files would change and certain additional programs and modules would be loaded specific to the application(s). I would end up with three entirely different machines and, for example, the media server would be a very poor desktop machine. Select the right tool for the job, this means that you won't find one PC that will do every job that you need.

[SeanB]

Funny thing is that at work I use Win7, and Office. However I use VLC player (and barely use it, there is a whole lot more in it than the minute part I use as a general purpose media player that literally can play almost any format I have met aside from a few bespoke formats that have their own bespoke player) and Libre office as often as I can. Supporting PC I use linux live cd's as that gives a whole lot of tools that are not as convenient on windows, or which do not exist. Strangely the live CD often runs faster on the same hardware as well.

[rdl]

The strangest thing to me is the fact that for a large number of PC users (probably the majority) all the machine is used for is very basic stuff - Internet, music, movies, and basic document editing. These are things that Linux does pretty well, yet these people continue to put up with Microsoft's crap.

[CatalinaWOW]

The strangest thing to me is the fact that for a large number of PC users (probably the majority) all the machine is used for is very basic stuff - Internet, music, movies, and basic document editing. These are things that Linux does pretty well, yet these people continue to put up with Microsoft's crap.

Absolutely.  Linux also does well on photo and movie editing.  It is the specialist stuff that is not so well supported.  People who write software for niche markets have to aim at the largest user base or go out of business.  That largest user base is not Linux.  Linux is not even in third unless you argue that the Apple and Android stuff is a Linux variant. 

Linux has a big battle to catch up.  It is not fundamentally difficult to use, but there is a significant learning curve in moving from one system to another.  Even Apple which brags how easy it is, can be difficult for people trained on other systems.  It is frustrating to try something that is easy in a system you are proficient in and spend minutes or hours searching for how to do that simple task.

[Lightages]

I agree with you about the attitude on the part of Linux advocates.  But you are doing the same thing.  There are many things that Linux in one or the other of its variants does very well.  And many things that neither system is superior on, just different.

I really don't understand how I can be any clearer. I do not want Linux to be Windows. I have never said that and never will. I said that I want to be able to do the same work, same productivity, as I can with Windows. Yes, Linux distros of one sort or another will some of the things that I can do with Windows. Not one distro I have tried, nor has been recommended, does everything in one installation like my one installation of Windows. I just want a Linux distro that can do all the work that Windows can do.

[Lightages]

I am not asking for an OS to do everything possible to conceive. I am asking Linux to do only what I can already do with Windows. Nothing more.

That's the problem, your entire software base is designed around what's compatible on Windows.  You're not asking Linux to be a good desktop, you're asking Linux to do exactly what you have found to work correctly for you in Windows.  Linux is not Windows.  It does not do the same things, and it does not do them in the same way.  It has different incompatibilities and different hardware/software support.  Had you started with Linux, built up a suite of software you found to work well together and do the job to your level of satisfaction, and then tried to move, verbatim, to Windows, you would have the exact same problem.

Why does everyone assume that a Windows user only wants a Windows copy. I want to do the same work as I can do in Windows. I didn't say I wanted to have the same way of working, nor the same software, nor the same user experience, nor anything else that is the "Windows way" of doing things. I SAID, I want to do what I can do with Windows. 

This is the zombie chant of Linux users, "You are only thinking the Windows way and it is your fault that Linux doesn't work for you." I used Linux in a couple of distros for a year, compiling kernels, compiling programs, searching and learning. It failed.

Again, I put my money where my mouth is. I will pay $2000usd to anyone for finding one distro, one distro and one installation, that allows me to get the same work done as I can in my one installation of Windows, and no virtual machines to run Windows programs.

[CatalinaWOW]

As I have said before I am a Windows guy.  I have played with Linux off and on since kernal 0.98 but don't use it daily, or even weekly.

I have found the Mandrake/Mandriva/whatever it is now core, and Ubuntu easy to set up and use for email, word processing, spreadsheets, powerpoint, photoediting and management, listening to music, web browsing, file browsing, CD and DVD listening/watching/burning and to some extent-database management.

Other distros can generally do all of these things too, I just haven't spent much time with them.

Things they all seem to be able to do, but which always require a bit of fiddling is accessing Apple or Microsoft centric networks, network printers and so on.  The Linux droids will pop in here and say how easy it is, but for those of us who don't live this software I stand by my observations.

I general I have found Linux better for supporting older printers, scanners and many other hardware peripherals.  Assuming that it is a product that was widely commercially successful, or was the pet rock of some Linux nerd at one time.  Windows and the manufacturers tend to drop support for older products like hot rocks.

I am not trying for $2000 so I haven't gone back and checked your needs list.  If it stopped above this line you just haven't tried Linux very hard.  But I suspect that like me your list has things below this line.

Where all distros fail is in the applications I need and use.  KiCAD and GnuCAD and the like can be used, but are not nearly as good as the fourth or fifth best Windows application.  There are several other packages I use that have the same problems.  I don't use it but assume the same is true for mechanical design software. 

[Tinkerer]

Again, I put my money where my mouth is. I will pay $2000usd to anyone for finding one distro, one distro and one installation, that allows me to get the same work done as I can in my one installation of Windows, and no virtual machines to run Windows programs.

Yes, this here. I have yet to try it myself even though I know I will eventually. However I do know that quite a few programs that run on windows wont work on linux or they dont work as well. Tis the only reason I havent already moved to linux. I know I would have trouble running the same things there as on win.

[zal42]

There are many things that Linux in one or the other of its variants does very well.  And many things that neither system is superior on, just different.

Fanboyism is annoying no matter what it's about. I think Three Dead Trolls in a Baggie said it best: Every OS sucks.

They suck differently, but they all suck. So the thing to do, as with any tool (which is all an OS is), is to pick the one that sucks the least for the job at hand.

[AF6LJ]

There are many things that Linux in one or the other of its variants does very well.  And many things that neither system is superior on, just different.

Fanboyism is annoying no matter what it's about. I think Three Dead Trolls in a Baggie said it best: Every OS sucks.

They suck differently, but they all suck. So the thing to do, as with any tool (which is all an OS is), is to pick the one that sucks the least for the job at hand.

All I can say is.........
 

[amspire]

Fanboyism is annoying no matter what it's about. I think Three Dead Trolls in a Baggie said it best: Every OS sucks.

They suck differently, but they all suck. So the thing to do, as with any tool (which is all an OS is), is to pick the one that sucks the least for the job at hand.

You are on an electronics forum. I hope it is OK to be enthusiastic about technology here. There are fans here of multimeters, soldering irons, spectrum analysers, synthesisers, power supplies, RF, LTZ1000 voltage references.... and computers. If you are going to start bagging "fanboys" here, you have a lot of work ahead of you.

[MrSlack]

Fanboyism is a broken part of human psyche which I'm almost certainly sure manifests itself in the same part of the brain as religion.

Everything is shit and we exist for a short period of time so I'd rather I put that time to good use by deriving what value I can with that shit and employ some pragmatism.

[zal42]

You are on an electronics forum. I hope it is OK to be enthusiastic about technology here. There are fans here of multimeters, soldering irons, spectrum analysers, synthesisers, power supplies, RF, LTZ1000 voltage references.... and computers. If you are going to start bagging "fanboys" here, you have a lot of work ahead of you.

Few people are more enthusiastic about tech than I am! I'm a big fan. 

But that's a lot different from "fanboyism". I'm talking about people who view product selection as some kind of objective, almost moral choice and then treat others who select differently as if they were idiots or evil or something.

I'm not seeing a lot of that sort of thing here, and if I did then I'd be far more inclined to ignore it than rag on anybody about it.

[amspire]

Fanboyism is a broken part of human psyche which I'm almost certainly sure manifests itself in the same part of the brain as religion.

I don't think any of the people who like a particular OS here have any kind of religious attachment. As far as I can make out, probably all the Linux users here are also Windows or Mac users. They compare the pros and cons and decide to go with one OS. In this thread, a lot of people are just saying what decision they have made and why.  Most the people here are making rational decisions based on the facts of the matter. People don't use Linux because of of some ethereal reason - it is because it works. In some ways better then Windows, and in some ways worse, but it works.

What I don't get is if a thread discussing the merits of OS's now that Windows has changed direction irks you so much, why are you reading the thread?

[AndyC_772]

I wouldn't describe myself as a "Windows user" or a "Linux user".

I'm a Firefox user, a Libreoffice user, an OrCAD PCB Designer user, and a Quartus user, amongst others.

I don't "use", or care at all, about the underlying OS provided that it allows me to use the applications I actually require in order to do my job.

Assuming for a microsecond that changing PCB CAD package were an option, are there actually any professional grade PCB CAD packages available on Linux? Or is the whole idea of switching from Windows to Linux totally dead in the water for that reason alone?

[Mechanical Menace]

I wouldn't describe myself as a "Windows user" or a "Linux user".

I'm a Firefox user, a Libreoffice user, an OrCAD PCB Designer user, and a Quartus user, amongst others.

...snip...

are there actually any professional grade PCB CAD packages available on Linux?

Allegro is Some parts of OrCad are but unfortunately not Capture yet, but it's meant to work well in Wine. Apparently from some point in 2017 all new releases from Cadence will support Linux (moving focus from RHEL and Suse to LTS Ubuntu too) but I wouldn't hold my breath. And if they do keep up to that it wouldn't surprise me if OrCad receives no update.

[CatalinaWOW]

Changing the programs you use is painful, as is changing operating systems.  Everyone tries to maximize the usability of their tools.  To my knowledge the engineering tools currently available under Linux are not as good as what is available under Windows.  That is even after you get over the learning curve of changing tools.  The problem is that Microsoft is ratcheting up the pain of using that side.  I keep getting closer to the tipping point.  They already pushed me over the tipping point on Office products.

[Turbon]

Windows is for social beeings that can't take a decision on standing foot. The issues has to be mangled through many likings and talked about at every level of our common area of intelligence. It does add to the democratic world we are striving for but sorry to say it need moderators or it will add to the dark side of the force . I would rather see that democratic values are taught in good schools (efforts and money needed) that are giving the same oppurtunities where ever taught in the world. We are not there yet but when help is called for from the broken countries - we must listen to those calls. Windows might be the answer if the moderation possibilities is built in. The moderators should be the UN. Linux can never rise to this level of changing peoples perception of building a better world as everyone is free to build in whatever malices they wish - sure the majority will be found very fast but some malice will find its way - freedom is dual edged and 50/50 is too uncertain for me. Freedom is not about planning evil deeds, freedom is about not have to worry about evil deeds and live ones life as one decides to responsibly.

Regards / Turbon
 

[miguelvp]

The UN is going to be very busy if all OSs need to comply to their rules, because you can't expect only one OS to be targeted to such moderation.

What is next? all software should be moderated by the UN as well?

No one is stopping the Linux community from stepping up and make it better but then again it's development by committee so your milage may vary. Let the UN be involved or any government based organization and nothing will progress.

[Karel]

... are there actually any professional grade PCB CAD packages available on Linux?

Yes there is and I guess you already know that but obviously you don't like the answer...

[Karel]

No one is stopping the Linux community from stepping up and make it better ...

Why should they? Isn't Linux good enough? It's already the most used OS.
Regarding the desktop, if enough people switch, the applications will follow.
Instead, if most people wait till their application has been ported to Linux, they can wait forever.
Typical chicken/egg problem. So, if you want to make it happen, it's up to you. Don't wait for others to do it for you.

[Lightages]

Why should they? Isn't Linux good enough? It's already the most used OS.

OK, so you claim.

Regarding the desktop, if enough people switch, the applications will follow.
Instead, if most people wait till their application has been ported to Linux, they can wait forever.
Typical chicken/egg problem. So, if you want to make it happen, it's up to you. Don't wait for others to do it for you.

Huh? So it is the most used OS according to you, but programs aren't getting ported because there aren't enough users? 

[MrSlack]

I just bought a slide rule on eBay. It doesn't have an operating system. Less to argue incoherently about....

[Lightages]

Just so you know, I have 53 slide rules. If you think there aren't slide rule brand fan boys...... 

No argument here. Just give me a Linux distro that does the same work in one installation that I can accomplish in Windows, and $2000usd is yours.

[rdl]

In the desk top OS world, Linux is almost non-existent. There are more people using Vista. In the server world I think Linux dominates.

It's interesting that even though Microsoft tries to spin Windows 10 as doing well and gives it away for "free", there are still more people using Windows 8/8.1 than Windows 10.

Of course, that's all based on Gartner estimates, and who knows how accurate those are.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_operating_systems