Mµ Thermal Imager - real or fake?

[M. András]

jesus machining a prototype case for days? hand carved or wtf? max done in few hours at top with details you wont even notice

[EEVblog]

I don't even know why they even bother with such updates. It's just always the same that only enrages the backers with pitchforks.
This time they just threw in mention that they have a new prototype PCB. WTF? didn't they have that finished last time?, and the time before that? And still no pictures or images from it or any previous prototype board they have mentioned, and it's been like a year now since they have started work on this thing.
And they want people to actually think that they are almost ready to manufacture and ship units? I'll give them one thing, that's first class brazenness.
Now they may show a case rendering, you mean like the ones you've had before and haven't shown?
As backers have pointed out since day one, NDA's don't stop you showing cases, or images or video from the camera, or prototype boards. They could have shown the whole she-bang from day one.

[fcb]

I seem to remember a 'johnny is in the corner tweaking the bias voltages to get the best picture" or something like that in a much earlier update...

[timb]

As a master bullshitter myself, I have to say, this is all 100% USDA choice bullshit. It's not even very good bullshit either, as they keep repeating the same thing over and over. These guys aren't spin doctors, more like spin med students.

[okent]

Well, I happen to be one of those early backers and from day one I knew it was a long shot.
The money involved is small and I waste more on a single shooting range trip.
I also am one of the guys who has benefited from the work of Mike and others who hacked the E4.  That was a gamble of 4X as much as I put into the Mu fiasco but was a huge payoff(the gamble was me being able to apply the hack without bricking the camera

I've seen this play out in the gun industry.  A company promises a lot for a little and stalls to get people to drop out.  There is a magic number that have to drop off before they can go forward without loosing their shirts and they will wait until that number is reached.
The up side is that if/when they deliver I get a tiny thermal unit that I can tuck in my shirt pocket that was dirt cheap.

[cloudscapes]

So they can be bothered to put out a video rendering of wha tthe case will look like, but no sample thermal pictures, or anything.

And they expect people to believe them how exactly?

This isn't even a scam anymore, because scams imply secrets and deception. Their bullshit is right out in the open, unhidden.

If this turns out to actually be real a couple months from now, I will shit a brick. 

[BravoV]

So they can be bothered to put out a video rendering of wha tthe case will look like, but no sample thermal pictures, or anything.

And they expect people to believe them how exactly?

What ? Believe ? They just need people's money, not their believe. 

[Corporate666]

I've seen this play out in the gun industry.  A company promises a lot for a little and stalls to get people to drop out.  There is a magic number that have to drop off before they can go forward without loosing their shirts and they will wait until that number is reached.
The up side is that if/when they deliver I get a tiny thermal unit that I can tuck in my shirt pocket that was dirt cheap.

I don't really understand the reasoning behind this.

The only reason I can imagine for wanting people to drop out would be if the cost to produce each unit exceeded the money raised per unit.  But in that case, they could just refund people, or be up front with people.  Being deceitfully dishonest to willfully make people angry enough to demand a refund but not dishonest enough to just not come through on the project just doesn't make sense, especially since they are not obligated to actually deliver, they are merely obligated to try to deliver, or return any unused funds.

At this point, do you honestly believe there is any hope that they might deliver anything at any point?  I am curious what you have seen that makes you think so?  I have seen nothing.  The original images were from a commercial thermal camera, and everything since then has shown absolutely nothing at all.  I could have shown more from my junk-pile of old R&D PCB's than Mu has shown.  What are you seeing that I am not?  Or are you seeing it strictly as a gamble?  Seems a hell of a gamble through... if money is so easy to spend, why not just see if it comes to fruition and buy it at retail?

Just curious, don't mean to sound confrontational.

[EEVblog]

At this point, do you honestly believe there is any hope that they might deliver anything at any point?  I am curious what you have seen that makes you think so?  I have seen nothing. 

They did post two photos of the supposed prototype, but it was a just dev board of some kind, nothing like a final PCB. But maybe that gave some people hope it was tangible?
But that was 3-4 months after the end of the campaign, and now 5+ months ago.
They claim to have at least two boards since that time, but have not shown those. Why they would show a dev board and not a final prototype board is unfathomable. A thermal image even more unfathomable, because they claim to have been producing such an image for at least the last couple of months.

[firewalker]

This is a thermal image of the Mµ camera.



Alexander.

[Rasz]

I've seen this play out in the gun industry.  A company promises a lot for a little and stalls to get people to drop out.  There is a magic number that have to drop off before they can go forward without loosing their shirts and they will wait until that number is reached.

How exactly does that work? Whats the play here? Magic number of pissed off customers that will NEVER buy your brand again?
There is no business case to do so. You either sell at a loss, or you make people believe you are a scammy company - NO GAIN either way.

[iceisfun]

The worst of this kind of vaporware & stalling I've ever seen is the Turbo Kit industry

Too many people think its so easy to weld up a few headers and a down pipe, why not take peoples money in advance and as time goes on they fail and fail, even with a working shop car.

[London Lad]

I was one of the first funders on this one but soon smelled a rat once the 'update bullshitting' started.

Fortunately I got my money back.

[EEVblog]

There is no business case to do so. You either sell at a loss, or you make people believe you are a scammy company - NO GAIN either way.

They could also have funding some somewhere else (I think they mentioned trying that early on?), so maybe they just don't give two hoots about the indiegogo money and backers and now have some other agenda and schedule perhaps?

[Rasz]

There is no business case to do so. You either sell at a loss, or you make people believe you are a scammy company - NO GAIN either way.

They could also have funding some somewhere else (I think they mentioned trying that early on?), so maybe they just don't give two hoots about the indiegogo money and backers and now have some other agenda and schedule perhaps?

Its possible they are trying to scam some VC company now and keep indiegogo just as a PR facade.

[okent]

Corporate666,
Yes, I view this as a straight up gamble.

Rasz,
I don't think they intended for this to turn into a hairball but that's what happened.  There comes a point where the lightbulb comes on and the company figures out how to keep their shirt.  They calculate that the people who get fed up with this and go away are a small number of the final potential customer base.

Just google Shrike beltfed delay and do a little digging.  People that were initial depositors waited for over a decade for the first units and they plopped down $1000 each, some $2500.(no joke)  The company took the worst black eye you could imagine from this but are still in business and selling product.

We'll see how this plays out.

[EEVblog]

Its possible they are trying to scam some VC company now and keep indiegogo just as a PR facade.

Well, they are refunding almost everyone who asks it seems, and they don't seem concerned, in fact they seem to be encouraging it, so it's likely they have another funding source.
To me this doesn't seem like an actual crowd funding scam, with the intention to have always delivered nothing.  I think they are working on something, but are just absolutely clueless at it, and they don't give two hoots about the indiegogo backers money or their concerns because they have alternative money and likely another agenda.
At this point, that seems like the most plausible explanation to me.

[okent]

I agree.  Money isn't the problem for them right now, for whatever reason.

[Kean]

I'm still a financial backer of muOptics.  I don't hold much hope for a quality product, but I do think they will ship something eventually.
I was willing to take the risk at the start, and didn't believe the original estimated ship date.
I guess can't see any point now in trying to get a refund, and I think I've already earnt most of my pledge back in terms of amusement (and frustration!).
They actually adjusted the specifications late in the kickstarter campaign, so the upper temperature limit makes it less useful than what I really wanted.

Kean

[Hypernova]

If this turns out to actually be real a couple months from now, I will shit a brick. 

If anything is ever released at all there will be enough bricks shat to stake another Great Pyramid of Giza tall enough to prick the Moon.

[Jay_Diddy_B]

Hi,

A new update was posted.

Charles McGrath posted an announcement 2 days ago


Hello All,

I have posted the final case design render in the gallery. This is the case that the cameras will ship in. Once we've received the physical cases we will post photos.

-Cheers





It links to this page:

http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/mu-thermal-camera-a-great-tool-to-save-on-energy-costs?c=gallery

No hardware, just a 3D rendering. To me it doesn't look deep enough behind the lens

Jay_Diddy_B

[sleemanj]

http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/mu-thermal-camera-a-great-tool-to-save-on-energy-costs?c=gallery  No hardware, just a 3D rendering. To me it doesn't look deep enough behind the lens

Yeah, not only do they not show the actual prototype, but they don't even put a real thermal image derived from their product on the rendered screen.

You know why...  BECAUSE IT DOESN'T EXIST.

[codeboy2k]

I'm not a backer, and I admit I'm only loosely following the activities of the Mu Imager... but there are plenty of thermal images on the linked page, are they all fakes?

[EEVblog]

I'm not a backer, and I admit I'm only loosely following the activities of the Mu Imager... but there are plenty of thermal images on the linked page, are they all fakes?

No, they are not fake, they were taken with a real thermal camera, just NOT the Mu camera!
They were taken with a commercial Flir unit and they didn't mention that fact. Only after someone pressured them on it did they reveal that the pictures were taken with a commercial camera.
To this day they have not released a single thermal image from their own camera.

[AndyC_772]

No way is that even a rendering of a "final" case. There's no detail... no fixings or fasteners, no battery door, no labels or recesses for them, no latching mechanism or clips for the phone. It's the sort of image I'd expect to see within the first week of a project, not the last.

Only a complete moron would send off CAD data to have "cases" (plural) made these days without at least doing a 3d print first... if they can't even show a photo of that, then it's all the more evident that they have nothing.

I think I might set up a web store selling torches and pitchforks. Send me £35 and I'll send you your very own personalised 'angry mob' kit - as soon as they're ready, of course. First 100 backers get a free pickaxe with their names engraved on the handles.