Big Clive's "Trashy" meter, unboxed ( Duratool D03047 multimeter )

[joeqsmith]

Being exposed to ESD is common for the average person.   Playing around with DC at kV levels wouldn't be unheard of for those of us on this site.  If people are concerned about safety, I suggest using the DOD's safety standard as a guide.     

https://www.energy.gov/ehss/doe-electrical-safety-program

[David Aurora]

Hell, "Fuck you I like them" is a perfectly good reason too. I was just trying to understand the attraction.

Clive's entire channel and schtick is built on $5 trashy things. Totally on brand for his channel.

For sure. I watch his channel often and like it. I'm just getting pretty strong vibes here that Clive essentially saying "This works OK for $5 and I didn't die" is being taken as "I found a video on the internet that totally backs up my confirmation bias about my $5 meter being the cats ass"

[Fungus]

For sure. I watch his channel often and like it. I'm just getting pretty strong vibes here that Clive essentially saying "This works OK for $5 and I didn't die"

I's almost as if you didn't bother to watch the video. Clive specifically says not to use these "at work".

The only person who mentioned "death" was you.

[Fungus]

Newer style on the left is now marked 250VDC compared with the original 1kV marking.

...which will have no effect at all on number of deaths (if there are any). 

People know they have 110V/230V at home so they'll think these meters are good for that.

But they still measure/display 1kV, right?

I guess posting it was a kV and having the three meters reading a kV still left you with that question.

It was kind of rhetorical just to emphasize that nothing changed on the inside. It's only the label that changed.

[Fungus]

Regarding safety of "830" meters, I think the most likely effect of a big transient at home is that they'll go "pop" and cease to function.

nb I don't have any hard data to back that up* but there's plenty of soft data, eg. Harbor Freight isn't involved in any class-action lawsuits for giving away millions of these "devices-of-death".

Me? I'd be much more worried about people putting the leads in the wrong holes and connecting it to mains AC than about transients. The fuses in this meter will make it just as safe as most $20 meters in this situation, if not safer - my Anengs only have 250V fuses in them.

(*) I don't have access to a suitable testing facility.

[joeqsmith]

Regarding safety of "830" meters, I think the most likely effect of a big transient at home is that they'll go "pop" and cease to function.

nb I don't have any hard data to back that up* but there's plenty of soft data, eg. Harbor Freight isn't involved in any class-action lawsuits for giving away millions of these "devices-of-death".

Me? I'd be much more worried about people putting the leads in the wrong holes and connecting it to mains AC than about transients. The fuses in this meter will make it just as safe as most $20 meters in this situation, if not safer - my Anengs only have 250V fuses in them.   ...

I didn't think you wanted to talk about safety.   

It was kind of rhetorical just to emphasize that nothing changed on the inside. It's only the label that changed.

 

Those free meters have gone through several hardware changes over the years to reduce cost.  Even if we saw a difference between the two meters I show, I couldn't tell you if it had anything to do with the label or not. 

[Fungus]

Those free meters have gone through several hardware changes over the years to reduce cost.  Even if we saw a difference between the two meters I show, I couldn't tell you if it had anything to do with the label or not. 

Is 1100V the limit? Seems to me like a 2000 count meter should be able to display 2000V... 

[Fungus]

If you wanted to promote safe practices, mention the one hand rule.

OK. When measuring high voltage it's a good idea to hold both probes in the same hand, like chopsticks. In the event of an arc flash you'll only lose a couple of fingers instead of both arms and part of your upper torso.

Also: Sniff the distribution panel before you start. If it smells of ozone then go and get your Fluke. You'll still die but at least people will know that you weren't using a $4 multimeter.

[joeqsmith]

Those free meters have gone through several hardware changes over the years to reduce cost.  Even if we saw a difference between the two meters I show, I couldn't tell you if it had anything to do with the label or not. 

Is 1100V the limit? Seems to me like a 2000 count meter should be able to display 2000V... 

Looking at my videos, it looks like I stopped at 1100 DC.  I ran that UNI-T UT90A to about 1.9kV when I connected it to an electronic flyswatter.   If you like, I can try it with the newest free one, my oldest one and that UT90A and just see where they all stop working at.  UT90A has had the ass blown out of it so many times, I doubt we would learn anything from it.  More just the fun factor.

...
When measuring high voltage it's a good idea to hold both probes in the same hand, like chopsticks. In the event of an arc flash you'll only lose a couple of fingers instead of both arms and part of your upper torso.
...

The friends of mine that who told me about the two arc flash events at work said in the one case, the workers entered the distribution area for maintenance.  The area was supposed to have been shut down.   Nothing was left of the person nearest the blast.   Another worker that was in the area was badly injured but I understand survived.  No meters were involved.

The one my friend was involved with where they were trying to make a live measurement, he had enough PPE to save him.   

[Caliaxy]

If you wanted to promote safe practices, mention the one hand rule.

OK. When measuring high voltage it's a good idea to hold both probes in the same hand, like chopsticks. In the event of an arc flash you'll only lose a couple of fingers instead of both arms and part of your upper torso.

Also: Sniff the distribution panel before you start. If it smells of ozone then go and get your Fluke. You'll still die but at least people will know that you weren't using a $4 multimeter.

Hmm… isn’t that rule about not closing the circuit through your heart?

[Nikola Tesla Junior IV]

Deep Dig.

It will always be perplexing to me, the value that is placed on money, the rationality of its worth based solely on what you MIGHT procure with it. You might say it makes the world go 'round, you might say that time is money, but in the end, the intrinsic value can and will ultimately lie within the eye of the beholder.

A sound thought would be, as an EE or aspiring, of the many things to consider,  accuracy and safety should inevitably rise to the top.

One could make an equation of such a topic.

Pausing to consider the Essergy, in an attempt to add plausibility or insight to the opinion of the beholder, we still find a negligible array or disqualifying factors, one of the many being Exergy and if you were to consider only the small environmental impacts. We can only conclude that the qualification process has not been 'met' based solely on the factors that an EE or similar should consider when making such a comparison. If you were to factor in safety, manufacturing processes/tolerance/control, accuracy, not to mention the often overlooked "time fooling with this, in a verification aspect", then we can ultimately conclude / make an informed decision.

If you want to add ~$10 to the list of qualifying factors, of the little we find,  then I suggest you examine what sort of intrinsic value that Secretary Alexander Hamilton holds in comparison to the aforementioned, after all, it lies within the eye of the beholder.

 

 
 

[Fungus]

Food for thought.

[EEVblog]

Accidents happen.

[robert.rozee]

Regarding safety of "830" meters, I think the most likely effect of a big transient at home is that they'll go "pop" and cease to function

i suspect that you are entirely right. but engineers far more expert on the subject that either of us think otherwise. hence, why we have the various safety standards that exist.

all i am saying is that a piece of gear should EITHER:
a. make no claims, explicit or implicit, that it meets a given level of usability (in this case, to be used to measure AC mains). in the case of a multimeter, this involves removing measurement ranges that fall way outside of the definition of "Extra-Low Voltage": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extra-low_voltage, OR,

b. contain the necessary design elements to comply with the relevant safety standards (in this case, creepage and clearance, component selection and specifications).

i really don't think what i am suggestion is unreasonable.

now, the reality is that "830" meters WILL continue to be made as they always have been, or even more cheaply, and every now and then there will be a serious accident as a result. we live in a global 'free market economy', and things will only change if the market dictates this. that is, the dollar cost of any 'oopsie' moments exceeds the savings in production cost.

as Dave says, "Accidents Happen".


cheers,
rob   :-)

[Fungus]

i suspect that you are entirely right. but engineers far more expert on the subject that either of us think otherwise. hence, why we have the various safety standards that exist.

Do you wear steel toecap boots and a hard hat at home? You probably should - just in case! 

(and wear a condom, too)

[robert.rozee]

well, as it happens i DO wear steel capped boots all the time! i have done for a great many years, and they have on several occasions saved me from a damaged foot... although it is fun when you walk through a metal detector (such as at the courts) and have to explain why it goes off. i also always carry a small LED torch in my pocket - that a security guard once held up to his own face and turned on.


cheers,
rob   :-)

[Fungus]

well, as it happens i DO wear steel capped boots all the time! i have done for a great many years, and they have on several occasions saved me from a damaged foot... although it is fun when you walk through a metal detector (such as at the courts) and have to explain why it goes off. i also always carry a small LED torch in my pocket - that a security guard once held up to his own face and turned on.

OK, that explains your viewpoint... 

[EEVblog]

WTF?  are they seriously $1.49?
And LOL at the "High Safety".

[EEVblog]

This is USD$10 shipped.

[robert.rozee]

not miles different from the fluke 12B i have, which i use when there isn't a '77 nearby:



(see also fluke 7-300 and 7-600)

dave: i don't know about anyone else, but i'd be quite interested in seeing you do a teardown and review of that Aneng M118A meter.


cheers,
rob   :-)

[Fungus]

This is USD$10 shipped.

I've got one of those. I don't like it much - horrible UI and it's impossible to read the text on the buttons without special light.

There's no way in hell I'd trade one for my Big Clive meter.

It also feels nasty and smells bad. The nasty chemical smell from the rubber gets on your hands after a millisecond of handling and you need to wash them afterwards to make it go away.

Edit:
FWIW here's the insides. The big 'chip' is a relay:


Now I'm off to wash my hands.

PS: Free to good home...

[Nikola Tesla Junior IV]

It also feels nasty and smells bad. The nasty smell from the rubber gets onto your hands after 0.5 seconds and you need to wash your hands after each use.

That's because its made out of recycled Volkswagen's.


edit:

FWIW here's the insides. The big 'chip' is a relay:

Is it a preferred option for your handheld meter to have the board to chassis screw 0.5 -1.0MM (or less, depending on day of the week)  from the 600V terminal? I could see how it might be particularly interesting when the screw is long enough that the point of it would reside within 1 or 2 MM from the outside of the unit where you would be presumably be putting an appendage at some point in time. The arc capability of 600V would probably be less then 1.0 MM, quite unimpressive, however it could cause sporadic pontification while in use, which might be of interest. 

[Fungus]

... it would reside within 1 or 2 MM from the outside of the unit where you would be presumably be putting an appendage at some point in time.

Is that less than the insulation on a Fluke probe cable?

[mariush]

Uni-T UT60B is 5.59$ on Aliexpress : https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003573433243.html
Bluetooth, temperature measurement (and temperature probe) ... would be interesting to see a review/teardown



There's a Uni-T branded DT-830B meter for almost 8$ ... makes me laugh : https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001203098253.html
But would be interesting to see if it's actually made by Uni-T and if so, what you get for 8$

[Fungus]

Uni-T UT60B is 5.59$ on Aliexpress : https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003573433243.html
Bluetooth, temperature measurement (and temperature probe) ... would be interesting to see a review/teardown

Look closer, that's just a clickbait price for just the meter case. The meter itself is 32 Euros

There's a Uni-T branded DT-830B meter for almost 8$ ... makes me laugh

Screenshotted for posterity: