Upgrading Mainboard in Lecroy DDA-3000 (aka WavePro 7300a?)

[sixtimesseven]

I've recently acquired a Lecroy WR6030, which failed to start the Waverunner software. Did a clean install (W2000 -> WXP) and the unit since then worked flawless . Big thumb up for all the work already done on the forum, including the working touchscreen-driver

After a bit of playing around i found out this (non-a) 6030 supports 2x 5GS/s in interleaved mode, but the datasheet and the front panel suggest only 4x 2.5GS/s is supported. Only the 6030A should support this conform the datasheet. Did Lecroy upgrade these units by just updating the firmware? The unit is probably 'uphacked' by the previous owner as all the options are available including non-ordeable USB2 and ENET. The status menu does mention the unit is a 'WR6030'.  Firmware is 8.1.2.0, latest available. Did they really gave the doubled sample-speed for free or am i missing something?

(Attachment Link)

The oscilloscope feels a bit slow and the fans sound like they need replacement, so i will upgrade this unit to W7Pro, S775, core2duo E6600 + SSD if i can find the right Motherboard. The combination of right chipset, available PCI-slots, AGP slot and native SATA is quite hard to find.

The unit now only has some cosmetic 'problem', the previous owner lost or broken the original front-panel knobs ( ) and therefore the knobs are replaced by some ugly black-red universal knobs. And not one, but all of them. Does anyone know if Lecroy is willing to sell replacements or if the original knobs (or some universal white knobs) are commercially available? I've tried Farnell, Digikey and AliExpress but the combination of grey/white + D-shaft does not gave a lot of options.

I would throw out the APG card and replace the screen and touch panel with something more modern and with higher res. Screen and LCD of this scopes really give their age away. Also, at least in the 7/8k series it seems to be really difficult to run the touchstone apg card on different mobo's because of the missing bios drivers.
If you ditch the LCD, all you need is a single PCI slot which quiet a few boards have even up to 3th gen i3/i5/i7.

Fans, not sure how the WR look inside or what fans are in there but make sure you replace the fans with equivalent airflow/pressure models...

Knobs: There is a guy selling 7/8k knobs on ebay. He charges 15 Euros a pice
I drew some 3D printable ones myself but the original ones have a weird temper shape and kind of a continious rounding at the top which I have not been able to reproduce with my limited cad knowledge yet

[analogRF]

I have got a WP7200A in a pretty decent shape which does not turn on. When the power button is pushed the fans spin for a split second
and then it shuts off. I can also hear the HDD wanting to start. the whole thing takes less than 1 second.

When I manually pull down the green wire on the ATX power connector on the motherboard, the system turns on and fans stay on and i can hear the HDD spin but then nothing...nothing on screen and no LED on front panel light up, maybe there is a quick flash of backlight on the LCD but nothing else.

Any idea how the power switch is wired/routed in this thing? I can see it is connected to the display/fan board but it should somehow reach the motherboard.

Any idea where i should start?

by the way, when I manually keep the power running, I measured the voltages on the motherboard connector and all are very accurate and noise free. I don't think it's a power supply problem at this point.

happy new year 

[ollopa]

Sounds like a bad motherboard to me -- might be a good time to consider an upgrade.  Look for any bulging or leaking capacitors.

[nctnico]

I'd connect an external monitor first to verify whether the motherboard boots or not. AFAIK Intel boards are not known for having bad capacitors.

[analogRF]

all caps seem in pretty good shape. nothing on external monitor either. I also changed the LCD with an identical one which is degraded but working, nothing changed...the thing is it does not even stay on and shuts of in a second. but when I manually keep it powered on
all voltages on the motherboard are ok and nothing is pulled down...is it possible that acq board is pulling down some other PSU lines and it shuts off but i cannot see its effect on the ATX connector?

[ollopa]

The MB is responsible for keeping the power supply on.  The fact that you can jumper it and all voltages read properly leads me to believe that the power supply is fine.

Could also be a corrupt BIOS.  You could try powering the MB with a known-good ATX power supply or try powering a known good MB with the scope power supply. 

[analogRF]

The MB is responsible for keeping the power supply on.  The fact that you can jumper it and all voltages read properly leads me to believe that the power supply is fine.

Could also be a corrupt BIOS.  You could try powering the MB with a known-good ATX power supply or try powering a known good MB with the scope power supply.

but the power switch goes to the auxiliary display board (on the side panel) and that board is connected to a PCI card among other places, so my thought was that something is happening to the power/standby line in that path...

can it be the RAM stick? I must have a compatible RAM laying around somewhere in this mess to replace it...i cannot find it right now...but i dont even get the bios screen...its all dark and blank on lcd and vga...

[nctnico]

Again: what happens with an external monitor connected? That is the first step to take before anything else. Also connect a speaker to the motherboard to hear if you get any beeps.

[analogRF]

Again: what happens with an external monitor connected? That is the first step to take before anything else. Also connect a speaker to the motherboard to hear if you get any beeps.

as I mentioned before, nothing... all blank.. I need to figure out why it shuts down in <1 sec first. That could be the source of the problem
even though I can manually power on the system by puling down the green wire but if there is an underlying issue it may still not boot.

at the moment my suspect is that auxiliary display/fan board on the side where the power switch and also lcd are connected
don't know how to troubleshoot it yet...

[nctnico]

Well the best way ahead would be to test the PC part seperately. Take the cards outs and power the motherboard from a seperate PC style PSU. Does the battery on the motherboard still has some juice in it?

[sixtimesseven]

I'd connect an external monitor first to verify whether the motherboard boots or not. AFAIK Intel boards are not known for having bad capacitors.

The caps on my old mobo close to the cpu were bulged...

[sixtimesseven]

Again: what happens with an external monitor connected? That is the first step to take before anything else. Also connect a speaker to the motherboard to hear if you get any beeps.

as I mentioned before, nothing... all blank.. I need to figure out why it shuts down in <1 sec first. That could be the source of the problem
even though I can manually power on the system by puling down the green wire but if there is an underlying issue it may still not boot.

at the moment my suspect is that auxiliary display/fan board on the side where the power switch and also lcd are connected
don't know how to troubleshoot it yet...

If it is the power switch, you can manually bridge the two pins which provides the start functionality on the "front panel header" on the mobo.

[Mechatrommer]

how about removing RF/ACQ board from PSU and PC section, just to narrow down the problem and avoid propagation? just a thought.

[analogRF]

Again: what happens with an external monitor connected? That is the first step to take before anything else. Also connect a speaker to the motherboard to hear if you get any beeps.

as I mentioned before, nothing... all blank.. I need to figure out why it shuts down in <1 sec first. That could be the source of the problem
even though I can manually power on the system by puling down the green wire but if there is an underlying issue it may still not boot.

at the moment my suspect is that auxiliary display/fan board on the side where the power switch and also lcd are connected
don't know how to troubleshoot it yet...

If it is the power switch, you can manually bridge the two pins which provides the start functionality on the "front panel header" on the mobo.

yes, that's what I almost do (I pulled down the green wire on the ATX connector) but I think the fact that the power does not stay on
shows there is an underlying fault somewhere and that can be the source of the whole problem. I dont think it's the power switch itself. It does its job correctly

[analogRF]

I confirmed that the power switch actually shorts the two pins on the front panel power connector on the bottom left corner of the motherboard like a regular PC. But of course it shuts of in 1 second.

I could not find a place to connect a speaker. Then I realized that the board actually has a tiny buzzer/speaker on the bottom left corner (burried under the bunch of cables) but it does not sound anything during power on.

[nctnico]

Did you check the battery on the motherboard yet? Did you also try to re-seat the CPU?
Are all the jumpers installed? The J9J4 header should have a jumper on pins 1&2 for normal operation.

[analogRF]

I have been running around all day and could not sit down and concentrate on this thing...

the cmos battery was 0V which I replaced. Reseated the CPU and memory and also used anther stick of memory instead...no change...it shuts down in a second and if I manually keep it powered on, there is nothing on display (not even back light) and nothing on VGA out. no beep sound from motherboard either.

I found out that if I keep punching the power switch repeatedly and quickly it finally stays powered on and I can also power it down by
pushing and keeping the power switch. of course the result is the same, no sound and no picture...all caps around the CPU seem ok.

EDIT: and jumpers are all in the right place

[analogRF]

Ahh, I think this looks very suspicious: there is an "empty" 8 pin socket on the auxiliary display/fan board (on the side panel of the unit which connects to the LCD)     It's marked U17. Is this normal?

My WP7300A is on loan and I dont have it with me and for the life of me I cannot remember if that 8 pin socket should be empty or there is an IC in there.

[ollopa]

That socket is empty on my WP7KA too -- I don't think it's a problem.

There's nothing so far indicating that the board you keep suspecting has anything to do with your problem.  Go get your motherboard to boot up with a regular PC power supply before you worry about the scope chassis.  My money is still on your motherboard being bad.

[analogRF]

That socket is empty on my WP7KA too -- I don't think it's a problem.

There's nothing so far indicating that the board you keep suspecting has anything to do with your problem.  Go get your motherboard to boot up with a regular PC power supply before you worry about the scope chassis.  My money is still on your motherboard being bad.

yes, I took the AGP card out which also disconnects that board video connector and ran on a VGA monitor only but no change...I am beginning to suspect the CPU itself...not sure if I have a spare in my junk box...but since there is not even a beep and apparently no BIOS running, I think the CPU itself is dead... I will take a PSU out from an old computer here and try to run the motherboard alone with no cards at all...

[tautech]

I have been running around all day and could not sit down and concentrate on this thing...

the cmos battery was 0V which I replaced. Reseated the CPU and memory and also used anther stick of memory instead...no change...it shuts down in a second and if I manually keep it powered on, there is nothing on display (not even back light) and nothing on VGA out. no beep sound from motherboard either.

I found out that if I keep punching the power switch repeatedly and quickly it finally stays powered on and I can also power it down by
pushing and keeping the power switch. of course the result is the same, no sound and no picture...all caps around the CPU seem ok.

EDIT: and jumpers are all in the right place

That screams of bad caps on the MoBo !
Had exactly this on a working (properly configured) PC and after a couple of hits from the PSU the bad caps would allow it to boot. Nearly burnt a finger on one and once all on the same power rail were pulled, checked and replaced the PC gave zero further issues.

[analogRF]

I have been running around all day and could not sit down and concentrate on this thing...

the cmos battery was 0V which I replaced. Reseated the CPU and memory and also used anther stick of memory instead...no change...it shuts down in a second and if I manually keep it powered on, there is nothing on display (not even back light) and nothing on VGA out. no beep sound from motherboard either.

I found out that if I keep punching the power switch repeatedly and quickly it finally stays powered on and I can also power it down by
pushing and keeping the power switch. of course the result is the same, no sound and no picture...all caps around the CPU seem ok.

EDIT: and jumpers are all in the right place

That screams of bad caps on the MoBo !
Had exactly this on a working (properly configured) PC and after a couple of hits from the PSU the bad caps would allow it to boot. Nearly burnt a finger on one and once all on the same power rail were pulled, checked and replaced the PC gave zero further issues.

mmm...sounds very reasonable. After I try the mobo alone with external PSU, if that fails, I will pull it out and check the caps.

Visually they all look good though. They may have killed the CPU  is that a possibility?

[tautech]

I have been running around all day and could not sit down and concentrate on this thing...

the cmos battery was 0V which I replaced. Reseated the CPU and memory and also used anther stick of memory instead...no change...it shuts down in a second and if I manually keep it powered on, there is nothing on display (not even back light) and nothing on VGA out. no beep sound from motherboard either.

I found out that if I keep punching the power switch repeatedly and quickly it finally stays powered on and I can also power it down by
pushing and keeping the power switch. of course the result is the same, no sound and no picture...all caps around the CPU seem ok.

EDIT: and jumpers are all in the right place

That screams of bad caps on the MoBo !
Had exactly this on a working (properly configured) PC and after a couple of hits from the PSU the bad caps would allow it to boot. Nearly burnt a finger on one and once all on the same power rail were pulled, checked and replaced the PC gave zero further issues.

mmm...sounds very reasonable. After I try the mobo alone with external PSU, if that fails, I will pull it out and check the caps.

Visually they all look good though. They may have killed the CPU  is that a possibility?

So did the caps in the mobo I mentioned but running a finger around them confirmed they were not !
IIRC they were on a 5V rail but of course the CPU is normally on a lower voltage rail/s however I'd be checking those caps too.
Do you have a thermal camera you can run over the mobo to check if there's some temps way out of wack/normal ?

[ollopa]

CPUs rarely fail but they can't operate if the mb is holding them in reset or failing to supply the required low voltage power rails.  In my experience it's usually the motherboard that is bad and it's usually a dried out, shorted, or leaking capacitor.  Most other failure modes including bad BIOS or damaged CPU tend to require help from a stupid user rather than develop on their own over time.

The power button is just a momentary contact to signal to the MB to latch the ATX PS_ON# pin low.  If the motherboard detects any faults or fails to start then it may let the pin float high again and the power supply turns off.  The CPU failing to boot is probably a symptom rather than the root cause.  Probably.

Use the process of elimination:
Can you power up a known good MB and CPU using the scope PS?  If so then PS is good.
Alternatively, can you power the scope MB using an external PS?  If so then the MB is good and the PS, switch, or a peripheral is a likely culprit.

All that being said, I did some experimenting on my old MB since I've upgraded the one in my scope.
1) If the 4pin CPU 12V power connector is not plugged in then it will turn on for a second and turn back off.  No beeping, even if RAM is removed.
2) With the CPU 12V connector and all RAM removed, it beeps as expected.
3) With the CPU removed it will not even attempt to power on, even for a split second.
4) Of course there is a +5VSTBY LED that is always on if the PS is on.

So double-check the auxiliary 12V supply.

[analogRF]

all connectors are firmly in place.

I could only find the pictured power supply in my shop which was pulled from an old HP computer. Is it enough to power this mobo?

I took all the cards out and disconnected everything from mobo except hdd, ram, cpu and connected this PSU
as soon as push the power switch (or manually pull down the Vsb on the ATX connector) the cpu fan turns for <1sec
and shuts off and with that the PSU also shuts off and cannot be turned on again unless I pull the plug
(this PSU has a green led on the back that lights up when it is plugged in and that led turns off when I try to
turn on the mobo and then there is no Vsb afterwards until i cycle power)

Heh, now is it the board or is it this funky power supply?!  but the symptom is exactly the same with the lecroy power supply.
except the lecroy psu can be kept powered on if I pull the Vsb down manually. This PSU apparently shuts off and does not turn on again.

I will have to take the mobo out at this point and check the caps I think...

oh, when I had all the cards out and even the memory out, I also connected the Lecroy PSU back again and exactly the same thing.
Fans turn for <1sec and no beeps.