EEVblog #708 - Free Energy BULLSHIT!

[Phaedrus]

This relaxation oscillator circuit is actually pretty interesting, and I was thinking of applying it. A friend of mine is a flight sim enthusiast, and he built his own TrackIR rig out of a ballcap and some LEDs, to avoid having to pay for the expensive, "official" headset. Problem is it runs off expensive 9V batteries and chews through them like no one's business. I was thinking that this oscillator circuit could help him power it off of cheaper AA batteries, and also get more Whr out of each battery.

What do you think of my revised circuit?



I added R2, as I noticed in Spice that Q2's base was pulling ~120mA with no resistor, which seemed inefficient. Adding the resistor drops it to ~20mA. I also added a trim pot to allow the LED brightness to be tuned with different batteries.

Think this would work well, or would I be better off with the "classic" Joule Thief circuit?

[vlad777]

Energy of the universe is zero. (All matter is created from nothing.)


Matter can disappear.

[DaveWing]

This relaxation oscillator circuit is actually pretty interesting, and I was thinking of applying it. A friend of mine is a flight sim enthusiast, and he built his own TrackIR rig out of a ballcap and some LEDs, to avoid having to pay for the expensive, "official" headset. Problem is it runs off expensive 9V batteries and chews through them like no one's business. I was thinking that this oscillator circuit could help him power it off of cheaper AA batteries, and also get more Whr out of each battery.

What do you think of my revised circuit?



I added R2, as I noticed in Spice that Q2's base was pulling ~120mA with no resistor, which seemed inefficient. Adding the resistor drops it to ~20mA. I also added a trim pot to allow the LED brightness to be tuned with different batteries.

Think this would work well, or would I be better off with the "classic" Joule Thief circuit?

You will be miles ahead with the Bedini circuit ... I posted the drawings on page 10, very last post of the page. It can be run as a solid state unit that will charge a battery across the coil.

-Dave Wing

[Phaedrus]

This relaxation oscillator circuit is actually pretty interesting, and I was thinking of applying it. A friend of mine is a flight sim enthusiast, and he built his own TrackIR rig out of a ballcap and some LEDs, to avoid having to pay for the expensive, "official" headset. Problem is it runs off expensive 9V batteries and chews through them like no one's business. I was thinking that this oscillator circuit could help him power it off of cheaper AA batteries, and also get more Whr out of each battery.

What do you think of my revised circuit?

xxx

I added R2, as I noticed in Spice that Q2's base was pulling ~120mA with no resistor, which seemed inefficient. Adding the resistor drops it to ~20mA. I also added a trim pot to allow the LED brightness to be tuned with different batteries.

Think this would work well, or would I be better off with the "classic" Joule Thief circuit?

You will be miles ahead with the Bedini circuit ... I posted the drawings on page 10, very last post of the page.

-Dave Wing

Uh huh... Well if you could go ahead and redraw that in a more readable format using something like Eagle, Diptrace, or ExpressPCB then I'm sure I can get right on it.

[vlad777]

This relaxation oscillator circuit is actually pretty interesting, and I was thinking of applying it. A friend of mine is a flight sim enthusiast, and he built his own TrackIR rig out of a ballcap and some LEDs, to avoid having to pay for the expensive, "official" headset. Problem is it runs off expensive 9V batteries and chews through them like no one's business. I was thinking that this oscillator circuit could help him power it off of cheaper AA batteries, and also get more Whr out of each battery.

What do you think of my revised circuit?



I added R2, as I noticed in Spice that Q2's base was pulling ~120mA with no resistor, which seemed inefficient. Adding the resistor drops it to ~20mA. I also added a trim pot to allow the LED brightness to be tuned with different batteries.

Think this would work well, or would I be better off with the "classic" Joule Thief circuit?

Check out this video:

Very similar circuit but production stuff.

[Phaedrus]

I'll be honest, I really wasn't asking either of you. No offense.

[IanB]

Think this would work well, or would I be better off with the "classic" Joule Thief circuit?

I have heard it said that some of the off-the-shelf boost converter ICs available today can achieve efficiencies ahead of what can be obtained with simple transistor circuits. So it might be worth checking out one of those?

[Fungus]

Problem is it runs off expensive 9V batteries and chews through them like no one's business. I was thinking that this oscillator circuit could help him power it off of cheaper AA batteries, and also get more Whr out of each battery.

Why not get him a voltage booster and an AA battery pack?

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=dc+adjustable+boost+module

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=4xaa+battery+holder

would I be better off with the "classic" Joule Thief circuit?

If it's just 3 LEDs in series then yep. A joule thief is much simpler.

[vlad777]

Problem is it runs off expensive 9V batteries and chews through them like no one's business. I was thinking that this oscillator circuit could help him power it off of cheaper AA batteries, and also get more Whr out of each battery.

Why not get him a voltage booster and an AA battery pack?

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=dc+adjustable+boost+module

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=4xaa+battery+holder

would I be better off with the "classic" Joule Thief circuit?

If it's just 3 LEDs in series then yep. A joule thief is much simpler.

You messed up the quotes, I did not say those things.

@Phaedrus
Just check out the video, it shouldn't matter from whom it came from.

[Phaedrus]

Problem is it runs off expensive 9V batteries and chews through them like no one's business. I was thinking that this oscillator circuit could help him power it off of cheaper AA batteries, and also get more Whr out of each battery.

Why not get him a voltage booster and an AA battery pack?

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=dc+adjustable+boost+module

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=4xaa+battery+holder

would I be better off with the "classic" Joule Thief circuit?

If it's just 3 LEDs in series then yep. A joule thief is much simpler.

You messed up the quotes, I did not say those things.

@Phaedrus
Just check out the video, it shouldn't matter from whom it came from.

Apologies, I assumed it was related to the free energy stuff you were discussing before. Thanks for the link!

[vlad777]

No worries.

[EEVblog]

That is why I said generally... As I will concede that I do not have the proper scientific equipment to measure with such accuracy. But never the less I can and will show a large percentage of recovered energy that is normally lost in the system can be recaptured for later use.

 
Then WTF are you going on about?
What's the big deal?
Collecting otherwise wasted energy is done all the time in engineering.

[EEVblog]

Dave; not to debunk debunking, but you talked about efficiency, and compared current to current to make the claim 50%.  However the voltage on the output (clamped at LED Von, 1.8V?) is somewhat higher than the input (1.5), so total power efficiency is probably a little higher than what you suggested.

No, at lower average currents the voltage drop is lower than that, I said that earlier in the video.
I did not accurately measure efficiency, that was not my intention, it was a throwaway comment I should have prefaced better.

[DaveWing]

Admin,

Well if it is done all the time why are we not using it in our electric motors, household appliances, cars and houses?

Back to the circuit I posted earlier, John Bedini's circuit, it is an oscillator that has mechanical output and it can capture the flyback energy as well... Plus when you factor in splitting the positive as my video shows... The current that powers the light bulb is passed into an inverted series battery, you don't even comment on it. I have shown you three solid ways, over and above what you went over in the video that started this thread, that give you a very high return, if you put them all together you will have a motor that will run under a high amperage load for peanuts.  Now what electric pulse motor does all this?

Have you seen the video I posted? Here is the link in case you have not. http://youtu.be/X4dJdEDwjgU

As can be seen in the video the light bulb is emitting photons and heat, apparently that is where the energy is going, it is being converted into those two things, at least that is what classical electrical engineering tells us. So if this is the case what is charging the small side battery? Answer that question please?

-Dave Wing

[wraper]

That is why I said generally... As I will concede that I do not have the proper scientific equipment to measure with such accuracy. But never the less I can and will show a large percentage of recovered energy that is normally lost in the system can be recaptured for later use.

 
Then WTF are you going on about?
What's the big deal?
Collecting otherwise wasted energy is done all the time in engineering.

Difference with the real engineering is that he is not collecting anything just wasting even more.
DaveWing I am supposing a challenge for you. Compare fan run time if 1. just using two fully charged 12V batteries in parallel and 2. what you will get when using your circuit with two fully charged and one discharged battery (which is used for energy recovery as you say). When 2 Charged batteries gets empty, run the fan from that single "energy recovering battery" and then calculate total fan run time.
P.S. recommend to not discharge batteries until zero volts to not damage them. But control the moment when voltage on single battery decreases to 10V and consider that as discharged state. For experiment to be really true, I reccomend to consider "Discharged state" voltage (when you stop counting fan run time) on the energy recovering battery to be exactly the same as voltage on it before experiment was started. Therefore you can count all true run time on so called "recovered energy".

[vlad777]

@IanB

Can you please recommend some links or videos about this time asymmetry of homopolar motor?
I haven't yet had a go at vector calculus, curl, del operators and what not...
So something at a hobbyist level, please?

Thanks.

[wraper]

Purpose of this experiment is that at the beginning you have equal amount of energy = 2 fully charged batteries. Then you can compare how effective is your circuit compared with fan just running without so called "wasted energy collection".

[timelessbeing]

This is incorrect.  Mass *is* energy.  They are just two different ways of measuring the same thing.  Please follow your own advice and regarding wikipedia, only I will provide the specific article that confirms what I am saying.  There is no article to confirm what you've said, so your omission of a link is understandable: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass%E2%80%93energy_equivalence

The products weigh less. Energy has this much mass: E=mc2 <==> m = E/c2. Does not matter what kind of bonds it is stored in.

OK lets see you guys power up your toaster with some mass.

It would seem that you haven't had the luxury of formal education.
In Chemistry, one of the elementary concepts that you learn is that mass is conserved.
In Physics,  you learn and do equations about how mass is converted into energy. This is the basis for nuclear reactions. The enriched uranium fuel is being consumed and released as energy.

Stringing jargon together may work on some people, but to those who understand and have studied the subject, you sound like an idiot. Believe me, special relativity does not come into play inside a battery. It's as much gibberish as these quantum vacuum inventions.

You sound so invested in your ignorance that I've lost the motivation to discuss it with you.

[wraper]

Stringing jargon together may work on some people, but to those who understand and have studied the subject, you sound like an idiot. Believe me, special relativity does not come into play inside a battery. It's as much gibberish as these quantum vacuum inventions.

Not to judge you both, but special relativity does apply to everything or it is wrong. It cannot be applied selectively.

[IanB]

Can you please recommend some links or videos about this time asymmetry of homopolar motor?
I haven't yet had a go at vector calculus, curl, del operators and what not...
So something at a hobbyist level, please?

It's really not that complicated. It you look at one of the classic homopolar motor experiments on the internet there is a 1.5 V battery in the middle of it. When the motor is running this battery is discharging, which means the state of charge of the battery is changing over time. If you leave the motor running overnight and come back tomorrow, you will find the battery in a different state than it was today. This is all that I mean.

The asymmetry comes from the difference in what happens when time runs in the forward direction to what would happen (hypothetically) if time could go backwards.

Another way of looking at this is that there is an energy gradient available and an opportunity for the system to go downhill following this gradient.

[Phaedrus]

Stringing jargon together may work on some people, but to those who understand and have studied the subject, you sound like an idiot. Believe me, special relativity does not come into play inside a battery. It's as much gibberish as these quantum vacuum inventions.

Not to judge you both, but special relativity does apply to everything or it is wrong. It cannot be applied selectively.

True. But in the context being discussed, the effects of special relativity are so tiny that it's essentially in the noise.

[wraper]

Stringing jargon together may work on some people, but to those who understand and have studied the subject, you sound like an idiot. Believe me, special relativity does not come into play inside a battery. It's as much gibberish as these quantum vacuum inventions.

Not to judge you both, but special relativity does apply to everything or it is wrong. It cannot be applied selectively.

True. But in the context being discussed, the effects of special relativity are so tiny that it's essentially in the noise.

May be hard to measure but you definitely can calculate.

[DaveWing]

Well if it is done all the time why are we not using it in our electric motors, household appliances, cars and houses?

Electricity is so cheap that it isn't worth it.

By the way, that image with the three batteries is hilarious... Are the arrows showing how gravity movies the electrons or something?

Also, any news on the video quality issues?

Hi,
Perhaps you can answer this question below.
As can be seen in the video the light bulb is emitting photons and heat, apparently that is where the energy is going, it is being converted into those two things, at least that is what classical electrical engineering tells us. So if this is the case what is charging the small side battery?

Here is the video in question.... http://youtu.be/X4dJdEDwjgU

-Dave Wing

[timelessbeing]

Stringing jargon together may work on some people, but to those who understand and have studied the subject, you sound like an idiot. Believe me, special relativity does not come into play inside a battery. It's as much gibberish as these quantum vacuum inventions.

Not to judge you both, but special relativity does apply to everything or it is wrong. It cannot be applied selectively.

True. But in the context being discussed, the effects of special relativity are so tiny that it's essentially in the noise.

May be hard to measure but you definitely can calculate.

Yes. And you can also calculate the vacuum energy. That doesn't mean that manofstone's oscillator taps into it, any more than a battery taps into rest mass energy. You people have wild imaginations.

[wraper]

is what classical electrical engineering tells us. So if this is the case what is charging the small side battery?
-Dave Wing

Should I write again that "LOL"? Reread again my first post commenting you. There is an answer:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-708-free-energy-bullshit!/msg595047/#msg595047

Or should we describe how battery charging do work? You try to claim something extraordinary while 95+% of this forum members (except some total electronics novices) do understand why this battery charges. YOU do not understand why this happens, yet try to claim some bullshit.