Siglent SDS2000X Plus

[thinkfat]

What is the BW limit on a 1x/10x probe in 1x mode?

That is a tricky question. In 1x mode the probe will load the circuit with a much higher capacitance so when measured with a 25 Ohm source (*) the bandwidth will appear much lower. However when hooked to a low impedance source (say a beefy MOSFET gate driver) it won't matter much.

* Which is the standard method to measure probe bandwidth.

However, the gate driver will now have to charge both the gate capacity and the considerable capacity of the probe. So, "something" will change.

[nctnico]

That is true with any measurement you make. In order to observe something you'll have to disturb it. A reasonable power MOSFET will have a capacitance in the several nf range so the relative change isn't that big.

[Martin72]

Or a 300 MHz 10x autosense one for $59ea.
https://siglentna.com/product/sp2030a-auto-sense-300-mhz-oscilloscope-probes/

This what I expect to have it here in the box...
In the box of a lecroy waverunner were 4 probes, each of them costs appx 700€ when you buy them separately.
4pcs 2800€, Waverunner cost 13000€, makes 21.5% of the Price.
SDS2104X+ cost 1400€....21.5% from this would be 300€ - Divided through 4, bingo...where are my sp2030a probes ?! 
Anyway, actually I got much more important "problems".
Trying everything, I couldn´t decode the spi signal from the stb-3 board on my sds2104x+.
Maybe I´m too dumb for this….

[tautech]

Trying everything, I couldn´t decode the spi signal from the stb-3 board on my sds2104x+.
Maybe I´m too dumb for this….

Screenshots of settings please......no not a photo but screenshots !

Have you toggled the STB3 settings to SPI output ?
Probes properly compensated if using them in 10x mode ?

I only have SDS5kX here ATM but the UI is very similar so maybe I can walk you through this.

[nctnico]

Or a 300 MHz 10x autosense one for $59ea.
https://siglentna.com/product/sp2030a-auto-sense-300-mhz-oscilloscope-probes/

This what I expect to have it here in the box...
In the box of a lecroy waverunner were 4 probes, each of them costs appx 700€ when you buy them separately.
4pcs 2800€, Waverunner cost 13000€, makes 21.5% of the Price.

700 euro for a simple passive probe is insanely overpriced. I guess you mean the Lecroy PP022. A probe from PMK with identical specs costs 195 euro. https://www.datatec.de/PMK-855-711-A01-Tastkoepfe-Passiv Lecroy pays at most 70 euro in bulk.


@Tautech: in this case a photo of the test setup would be helpful to see how everything is connected.

[Martin72]

Hi,

Have you toggled the STB3 settings to SPI output ?

Of course and I´ve followed the settings mentioned in the stb-3 manual as close as possible ( unfortunately, you couldn´t do much settings on the sds2000x+).
Normally, when you doing something wrong, senseless values will be displaying until you did the right settings.
But here in this case, I get nothing, not a single character.

Probes properly compensated if using them in 10x mode ?

Yepp, this was the first thing I´ve done.
BTW, you couldn´t get a stable signal too, it´s always jittering around, trying spi-trigger or normal edge type anyway.
Trying other formats, I2C and UART, couldn´t decode it too.
But this could be a failure I´ve done.

Screenshots of settings please.

Sure, at the weekend I guess...

[tautech]

BTW, you couldn´t get a stable signal too, it´s always jittering around, trying spi-trigger or normal edge type anyway.

Use a falling edge trigger as the idle state of a buss is typically high. (active low)

[tautech]

BTW, you couldn´t get a stable signal too, it´s always jittering around, trying spi-trigger or normal edge type anyway.

Use a falling edge trigger as the idle state of a buss is typically high. (active low)

Oh and I forgot, make sure Trigger Holdoff is set greater than the widest packet width.
Also as the CS signal is falling edge set to ~CS.

From my STB3 and SDS5kX:

[nctnico]

@Tautech: is is possible to use SPI decode without the CS signal? Not every SPI bus uses CS.

[tautech]

@Tautech: is is possible to use SPI decode without the CS signal? Not every SPI bus uses CS.

Yes, by using CLK Timeout.

[Martin72]

Like we do ( Timeout).

@tautech:

I see MISO disable on your screenshot - This is a point, I can´t choose on my sds2000x+....

[tautech]

From an anonymous source, a STB3 and SDS2000X+ SPI decode screenshot.
Thanks anonymous. 

[thinkfat]

Or a 300 MHz 10x autosense one for $59ea.
https://siglentna.com/product/sp2030a-auto-sense-300-mhz-oscilloscope-probes/

This what I expect to have it here in the box...
In the box of a lecroy waverunner were 4 probes, each of them costs appx 700€ when you buy them separately.
4pcs 2800€, Waverunner cost 13000€, makes 21.5% of the Price.
SDS2104X+ cost 1400€....21.5% from this would be 300€ - Divided through 4, bingo...where are my sp2030a probes ?! 
Anyway, actually I got much more important "problems".
Trying everything, I couldn´t decode the spi signal from the stb-3 board on my sds2104x+.
Maybe I´m too dumb for this….

Margin on the Waverunner is a lot more than on the Siglent... No problem for Lecroy to throw in a couple of goodies. 20% is probably what Siglent earns  on each sale. That's why you get only wires and a bit of plastic for probes.

[0xdeadbeef]

Still, also former entry level scopes like the Hameg/R&S HMO came with proper auto-sense probes. If Siglent wants to get rid off the el-cheapo image, they should behave accordingly.

[tautech]

Still, also former entry level scopes like the Hameg/R&S HMO came with proper auto-sense probes. If Siglent wants to get rid off the el-cheapo image, they should behave accordingly.

No problem, I'll suggest they up the price to accommodate you. 

[0xdeadbeef]

Yeah, sure, because of the few bucks the proper probes would cost them...
But they should indeed reconsider their pricing policy. The only 2000X+ with proper probes costs nearly the same as the 5000X with the same bandwidth and identical probes.

[thinkfat]

Still, also former entry level scopes like the Hameg/R&S HMO came with proper auto-sense probes. If Siglent wants to get rid off the el-cheapo image, they should behave accordingly.

The entry level HMO1000 series didn't have autosensing at all. The HMO3000 series did have them, but with 300MHz to 500MHz and 4GSa/s they were not really entry level, when they were introduced.

[0xdeadbeef]

Nah. The HMO724, HMO1024 and HMO2024 even have/had a full fledged probe interface. Problem is that Hameg/R&S never released an active probe for the interface so all you got was auto-sensing. I should know as I own an HMO2024 which is virtually identical to the lower models except for bandwidth, memory and sample rate.

[twizla]

Hello, this is my first post in this forum after several weeks reading. Really a great community!

As result, and after studying all available information, I also became a happy owner of SDS2000XPlus. Many thanks to all members for your great help in this process. My idea was to share my first impressions.

The scope really feels like scaled-down SDS5k. I like rich measurement functions including statistics, comfortable cursors, and intuitive parameter control with Universal knob. Shared channel control, compared to separate channel control in SDS5K, is no restriction to me. I do not change channel parameters that frequently.

Probe sensing on channel inputs is compatible with TEK probe, seems only one probe attenuation is implemented: 10x. When changing probe sense resistor values according TEK spec, scope does not change the attenuation value. Probably only single-level comparator implemented in the scope.

The trigger on input channels works perfectly, external trigger input has some jitter in ns-region. No issue for me.

Bandwidth evaluation confirms high-grade components used. I look forward to see the first tear-down report! Attached see the channel bandwidth comparison of different 100MHz and 500MHz models. The -3dB bandwidth is 150M and 600M respectively, with some variations between units. Many thanks to other’s contribution.

I compared the 500M model rise-time in three setups: Leo’s pulse generator only, Leo + TEK 500MHz passive probe and Leo + TEK 1GHz active probe. Measured rise-time is 650ps for Leo, <1ns for passive probe and <700ps for active probe. Very respectable values.

Siglent family includes more attractive products. Large output voltage and low jitter on AWG and good price/performance ratio of spectrum/vector analyzer catch my attention. I wish more unified design and operation concepts as power on/off switches (some have soft-switches, others not), menu structure and button labeling and layout to be found in new products.

I really recommend the new SDS2000XPlus to all interested readers.

[Martin72]

Hi,
Thanks for your post - I´m not alone anymore...

Measured rise-time is 650ps for Leo

Hmmm…..must repeat my measure, I got appx 800ps.
Nevertheless, it´s sunday afternoon, time to play…
What I really like is the fast/slow acquisition mode.
For example you can watch a pwm signal slowly changing it´s duty-cycle, nice.

From an anonymous source, a STB3 and SDS2000X+ SPI decode screenshot.

Finally I could decode too...
And have a look, it could decode even with a timebase of 50ms....

[twizla]

some difficulties with attachments

[voltsandjolts]

For using Tek active probes, this DIY adapter might help:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/circuit-studio/example-project-tektronix-tekprobe-adapterbreakout/

[TK]

Post by user twizla sounds like SPAM.  Did he buy the 100MHz or 500MHz model?  How come he tested both models?

[twizla]

Yeah, Tek Probe Interface on SDS200XPlus is what I was dreaming about. Thank you voltsandjolts for the link! I even considered the expensive and not-so-handy Tektronix 1103, or replacing the PCB inside the SDS2000XPlus with customized version. So far, keeping dreaming....

[Martin72]

How come he tested both models?

Before/after "upgrading", I guess…