Siglent SDS2000X Plus

[TK]

Dave reviewed the MSO5000 and then he had to make another because all the bugs.  I think the same bugs are still there.  He also reviewed the SDS5000X and you can see the SDS2000X plus as a stripped down version of it, too similar to make another review.

[tautech]

Dave reviewed the MSO5000 and then he had to make another because all the bugs.  I think the same bugs are still there.  He also reviewed the SDS5000X and you can see the SDS2000X plus as a stripped down version of it, too similar to make another review.

Stripped down just a little yes, no active probe interface and shared controls but with an inbuilt 50 MHz AWG.

Defpom will get one on loan for a video sometime in the next few weeks.

[0xdeadbeef]

Stripped down just a little yes, no active probe interface and shared controls but with an inbuilt 50 MHz AWG.

There are quite a few more substantial differences as discussed in this thread before.

[Martin72]

Would you say it is better or worse on the SDS2000+ compared to the MSO5000 ?
The serial decoding is much better on my MSO5000 than on my previous SDS2000X ( non plus ).
So I wonder how this new model behaves compared to the MSO5000 ( triggering on char for example and your general feeling regarding this )

Hi,

At the first sights, they seem to be equal, but I hadn´t test it on work so far ( where I have the possibillity to check it with 25Mhz SPI Signal, very noisy and hard to handle what triggering concerns).
Can do further ones at the weekend with the demoboard.
Only thing I regonized was, the siglent could decode "longer" in case of setting the timebase longer ( rigol could decode down to 20ms/div., siglent down to 50ms/div ) but the rigol I´d once tested at work, not with the demoboard here, so the value for e.g. clock could be different.
"General Feeling" is that the menu structure was "better", clearer - But I must test it again

[Martin72]

There are quite a few more substantial differences as discussed in this thread before.

Eres and averaging for example.

[Martin72]

The Siglent EU Support says the following.

WTF, they´re talking to you ?! 
Still waiting for an answer….

[thm_w]

Dave reviewed the MSO5000 and then he had to make another because all the bugs.  I think the same bugs are still there.  He also reviewed the SDS5000X and you can see the SDS2000X plus as a stripped down version of it, too similar to make another review.

Majority of these bugs Dave discussed were in the logic analyzer, which majority of people would never use. You think the same bugs are still there, what useful information. The full list is incredibly well documented here for anyone else wondering.

[TK]

Dave reviewed the MSO5000 and then he had to make another because all the bugs.  I think the same bugs are still there.  He also reviewed the SDS5000X and you can see the SDS2000X plus as a stripped down version of it, too similar to make another review.

Majority of these bugs Dave discussed were in the logic analyzer, which majority of people would never use. You think the same bugs are still there, what useful information. The full list is incredibly well documented here for anyone else wondering.

Bugs are bugs, it doesn't matter if you don't use the function.  The fact is that Rigol is selling an unfinished product and that bothers me a lot.

[Martin72]

The fact is that Rigol is selling an unfinished product and that bothers me a lot.

Can´t remind of any scope brand/model, who was flawless from the beginning.
Everyone hast to launch fw updates for debugging.

Hi, would anyone want to make a video review on this oscilloscope?

I would, if I could.
But I  couldn´t...

He also reviewed the SDS5000X and you can see the SDS2000X plus as a stripped down version of it, too similar to make another review.

I don´t think it´s too similar what the hardware concerns - Therefore the  difference between could make Dave curious.
If he take notice about the 2K+ so far.

[pipe2null]

Bugs are bugs, it doesn't matter if you don't use the function.  The fact is that Rigol is selling an unfinished product and that bothers me a lot.

I bought my MSO5072 back in September, knowing full well the issues with it.  At the time I had also heard rumors about Siglent's upcoming scopes (I can confirm that there are Siglent beta testers who are members of EEVBlog, Shhh!!!  Hehe) but I did not want to wait 4+ months for something that would likely cost hundreds more.  I do not regret buying the Rigol: until I had it on my bench, I had not physically touched a scope in many, many, many years (I vaguely recall that I got an EE degree a couple decades ago, but went into software instead).  Honestly, the (hacked) Rigol completely fulfills all my current and future needs, up to the point I'll be buying a 2+GHz BW boat anchor.  BUT, I have the same complaints about it as everyone else.  I am currently at the "hobbyist" level, but I am building up my home lab and my skill level to see how viable a career change from software->hardware might be, without a drastic pay cut.  I just ordered my first "adult-ish" multi output power supply, a GPP-4323 w/LAN (FYI: I got a good deal on the PS from Tequipment and they have a discount for EEVBlog members), and from the reviews I expect I'll have high confidence in the equipment. 

But I do not have the same confidence in my Rigol, and that confidence decreases every day that they do not release a FW update.  Long story short, I'm seriously looking at trading "up" to the SDS2104X Plus, assuming I'll eventually unearth the "home improvement" procedure.  I have the impression from this thread that it's safe to assume I'll have much higher confidence with the Siglent, but is that confidence worth the extra cash and the loss of 8GSa/s?  Or perhaps my impression of the SDS2000X Plus is a bit too rosey?  Well, that's the (very individual) question I'm struggling with.

[Martin72]

I´m with you.

I had my rigol 5074 for over one year, was one of the first owners.
Before, I was a rigol "fan" since the DS1000Z cames up.
Liked the full packed features.
Was happy as the 5000 cames up, for me the true heritage of the DS1000Z.
But month goes by….
In this time I was nearly every week in contact with the rigol eu support.
And they gave me all the support they could, very nice.
But at the end..
Only one official fw update, next update is delaying for months.
Should launched in may 2019, now we got february 2020.
And then I took a very low noise measurement and must find out, the rigol couldn´t really handle this.
At the same time, the siglent 2K+ cames up.
"Only" 2GSa/s...hm-hm..
But otherwise…
It was a spontaneous decision, I´ve sold my rigol, put some bucks additional and ordered the siglent.
Less samplerate, less features - But I don´t regret it until today.

[TK]

I am with you too.  I had the MSO5000 2 times, the first unit sold after seeing the poor UI design (screen menu items unaligned with the buttons, dim display, slow UI, etc).  Then I saw the hack and tried one more time, the new unit had better LCD brightness, but it was still very unresponsive... and concluded that if you don't really need the extra features (sample rate, deep memory and all the hacked features), as a daily use scope, it is unbearable... I lost confidence on it, it was not pleasant to use.  Sold it.

Purchased the SDS2104X plus 2-3 weeks ago and waiting for it to be back in stock

[oewean]

New firmware released for Siglent SDS2000X Plus
SDS2000XP Firmware – 1.3.5R3 (Release Date 02.21.20 )

https://www.siglenteu.com/download/8989/

[NoisyBoy]

I am impressed,

1. Supported Sign as a math function
2. Updated the Webserver. The built-in bin2csv tool supported to convert binary data of digital channels
3. Added English help information
4. Fixed several bugs

It took Rigol 6 months to release 04.08 with 5 fixes for the rest of the world. 

Not only that, the Siglent firmware was released simultaneously at the US.  Rigol MSO5000 kept US at an older firmware for another 5 months for some unknown reason, while the rest of the world was on a different version. So it took U.S. almost a year to get a fix with 5 patches and no new features.

Siglent did this despite the disruptions caused by the Coronavirus, while Rigol has not released a single new firmware for 3 months for ANY of its products.

If this new firmware truly fixes some of the top issues in the Siglent scope, that would put them leagues above Rigol in firmware support. 

[jemangedeslolos]

They seem to have made a lot of progress at this level 
They were as bad as Rigol few month/years ago.....

I hope this will push Rigol to progress on that.

[NoisyBoy]

One can only hope, but again, as I said many time before, I expect nothing when it comes to Rigol. 

[0xdeadbeef]

Eres and averaging for example.

Slightly offtopic but I recently tried Eres at work on my LeCroy 6Zi and on the WS3000 of a colleague. The Eres on the 6zi is shown as acquisition feature (i.e. exists on each channel and affects the channel's display), but is indeed a post-processing option. So it doesn't alter the measured sample values and can be modified after acquisition.
On the WS3000 though, Eres is a math function, so you can activate it in addition to the channel but it won't replace the channel. Still, you can deactivate the display of a channel and keep the math function. However, the WS3000 seems to be limited to two math channels and the update of these channels is very slow compared to the actual channels.
Personally, I would consider this 2nd kind of Eres implementation (which seems to be more or less identical to that on the SDS2000X Plus) unusable for anything but a screenshot now and then (even there using a math function clearly reveals that this is not really the measured data).
So I really wonder how the "hardware accelerated" Eres on the SDS5000X is working. If it's really following Lecroy's definition of Eres, it can't modify the measured data but has to be done for the display only - probably at the same level where also the linear/sinc interpolation is done.

[Martin72]

New firmware released for Siglent SDS2000X Plus
SDS2000XP Firmware – 1.3.5R3 (Release Date 02.21.20 )

Hm,

I already got this version 
Date of the file is december, 26th.
Nevertheless, I´ve done it and no message came up (e.g. this version already exists).
Maybe this is a upgrade for very few early models, not for every model.

Interesting thing @tv84:

In the upgrade instructions for upgrading via web server, you can see something….

[jemangedeslolos]

I don't know if this SDS2504X+ is able to handle 500Mhz on all channels or if a SDS2504X+ = SDS2354X+ with 500Mhz upgrade.

If that is the case, Performa01 has already has already measured 570Mhz @ -3dB.

[Martin72]

Same as before.
I wonder it won´t deny the upgrade, although it is the same version.

[Martin72]

Now I know I wasn´t wrong, in two ways.

First, it really doesn´t recognize if the firmware is already installed - Test it simple by upgrade it again and no message appears. 
Second, I got the evidence, that my scope already got the firmware:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds2000x-plus-coming/msg2881294/#msg2881294

And have a look at the pics…

Then have a look at the pic I´ve taken NOW.

So in my opinion, the launching of this fw-version was a mistake or, as I wrote it before, for really early models - But I don´t believe this.

Show once which options are enabled

See below.

Martin

[tautech]

So in my opinion, the launching of this fw-version was a mistake or, as I wrote it before, for really early models - But I don´t believe this.

Of late Siglent have always made available the FIRST (release) firmware version.
Because of the virus restricting their return to work this first public firmware version has only now been released.

[Martin72]

Hm, what sense make this...

[tautech]

Hm, what sense make this...

A baseline version that beta testers usually don't have at product release.

And an initial something for tv84 to investigate. 

[Martin72]

Ah, I see.
To be honest, I would also have been surprised if a "real" update had come so early, especially under the actual circumstances.