New Flir products

[cynfab]

Once the Flir Ones start arriving, there will be a lot more info about what phone/tablet/??? works with the device,  Like the Seek, until the devices are in the hands of users, we won't really know what works and what doesn't.
Since UPS has mine and not FLIR (any more), I feel confident in its arriving tues or wed of next week... ;>))

   ...ken...

[encryptededdy]

I will rather wait for i3-ThemalExpert with 384 x 288 resolution and sell my SeekThemal to soften a hit to my wallet. 

btw I contacted i3system and the price (still undecided) will be a fair bit higher than the $500 USD I quoted in the other thread.

[Redshift1340]

I will rather wait for i3-ThemalExpert with 384 x 288 resolution and sell my SeekThemal to soften a hit to my wallet. 

btw I contacted i3system and the price (still undecided) will be a fair bit higher than the $500 USD I quoted in the other thread.

Well I hope the ThermalExpert i3 is at least cheaper than the Therm App.  I'd love to have the Therm App or an E4 but I can't quite afford spending $900-$1000 right now.  So I'm hoping the i3 might come in at $700-800 tops, or that the other two take a price drop.

[encryptededdy]

I've been reading this thread, and have a sudden urge to buy a thermal imager seeing as how the prices in general are actually starting to become within reach. Whether it's the Flir One or other product, or even a dedicated one.  In the ~$300 range is the Flir One still the way to go?  I can't seem to find the Android version anywhere in Canada, not even through ebay. It's all iphone ones.  Also how phone specific is it?  I have a Nexus 4.

If you have a Nexus 4, then the FLIR One might be your only option - the Nexus 4 has limited OTG support, as it doesn't supply power. Therefore, the Seek/Therm-App, which both draw power from your phone, won't work. Only the FLIR One has a built in battery and therefore will hopefully work.

However please note that the USB connector on the Nexus 4 faces the wrong way - you'll only be able to take thermal selfies unless you get a MicroUSB OTG extension cable.

That's good to know.  I'll have to try to find a source in Canada, think I'm going to go for it.  I'll have to find that microusb cable though, is that something common?  I would not really want it to be super long.

http://www.amazon.com/YCS-Basics-Micro-female-extension/dp/B00HAOK7XE/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1441352399&sr=8-2&keywords=OTG+extension+cable

Couldn't find anything shorter

[mikeselectricstuff]

My F1 Android just arrived - delivered by Amazon, so looks like Flir have outsourced their fulfillment.

No time to play at the moment I'm afraid

[Fraser]

YAY! Mike

That likely means mine is not too far away as well.

On the topic of costs and various options, I will repeat what I have said before.

The technology and capability that is being offered by cameras such as the E4, SEEK, FLIR ONE, Thermap etc is excellent value for money when compared to what thermal cameras cost up until very recently. Personal budgets are something I understand since retiring but I believe the old PC related adage applies.... buy the best that you can afford.

If budgets are tight but performance is a concern with the cheaper units, consider buying a used thermal camera provided it can be returned if not in full operating condition. Repairing thermal cameras can be a challenge to those without previous experience of such.

As an example of what can be achieved buying used thermal camera equipment...

I bought a FLIR PM575 for £150 a few months back...and that was via ebay ! It is in almost new condition and works superbly. It is a 320x240 / 60fps high performance microbolometer based camera with superb optics and build quality. I have to admit that this was a lucky find but a more usual PM series price for me of £600 secured the purchase of a superb PM695 'top of the line' auto focus thermal camera this week. It is a Gen3 low noise 320x240 60fps microbolometer cored camera with true auto focus, and many built in analytical features.  It came with a perfect condition auxiliary wide angle lens and the very hard to find FLIR ThermaCAM Reporter Pro software. The original prices of these items in 2002 (when bought) were as follows:

PM695 camera - $56000 + VAT
PM570 W/A lens - $15000 + VAT
Reporter Pro - $6000 + VAT

The above prices are not typos, yes all are multi thousand US $ items.

They may have been overpriced for home users but this is still the sort of money that is spent on equipment in industry. Consider the build quality and performance that £600 just bought me.... its a pretty good deal IMHO. The larger, older professional thermal cameras are a bit like Digital SLR cameras Vs similar resolution compact point and shoot cameras. The image sensor and optical block in the PM series is HUGE when compared to that of the E4. In TIC's, 'bigger is better' when it comes to the microbolometer (and I am not just talking resolution here). The PM series have thermoelectric temperature stabilisation as well. Please do not discount used equipment as old so therefore no good.....the truth can be VERY different. Sometimes the guy with the smaller budget ends up with the better deal and better equipment 

Why am I buying a FLIR ONE Android ? It will be a very convenient little camera to have around. Plus I collect thermal camera technology and this looks to be a great piece of miniaturisation. IMHO, at around  £200 in the UK, it is a bargain. Its even cheaper in the USA !  Will it replace any of my other cameras used in my lab....not likely but who knows 

Aurora
 

[mikeselectricstuff]

App says not compatible with my Moto G.
Attempting to revive tablet....

[mimmus78]

Well I finally got reply from someone in Flir for my "cancelled" order.

They made me re-order the thing and offered me some discount too (nice touch Flir!) ... shipping on Monday.

Hope that Mikes don't publish a full tear down before to have it in my hands ... it will ruin my unboxing by more than one order of magnitude.

[mikeselectricstuff]

Also "not compatible" with a recent Kitkat 4.4 tablet.
It's taken long enough to arrive - how have they not either fixed it or put a warning on the website 

[marshallh]

Was to arrive today, but UPS botched the delivery, and the package teleported from my town back to the distritubtion hub.
I have yet to ever receive a 2nd day air package on time. So far the worst "2nd day" delivery time has been up to 1.5 weeks.

Get it together UPS.. I can ship something from China to my doorstep in 2 days, including weekends... It's bad when DHL is better

[Fraser]

Mike,

I noted that the APP was stated as incompatible with my MOTO G some time ago. I thought they might be going to release a new APP when the cameras shipped. Sadly this appears to not be the case. I am a fan of the Motorola MOTO G and it has been a very successful mobile phone model with no nasty weirdness to cause user experience issues.

For the FLIR APP to not be compatible with the MOTO G rates as a really daft situation. Many other phones will likely also come up as not compatible even though they are OTG capable. I can only think that FLIR have locked down the apps pre-requisites on the PLAY store and they need to open them up to all ANDROID phones as SEEK did after an initial lock down. 

The solution is likely to side load the app as we did with the SEEK app. A pain but at least it should work with the relatively standard ANDROID MOTO G phone.

I suspect FLIR will be getting a lot of support questions on this matter so it will soon be rectified. Its very different to an APP that loads but refuses to run correctly and is just an admin setting on the pre-requisites.

If we side load the APP and it doesn't run.....well that will be a major PITA !

Aurora

[mikeselectricstuff]

The solution is likely to side load the app as we did with the SEEK app.

anyone....?

[cynfab]

I was able to load the app from the play store on to my Samsung S4 mini even though It is not compatible since ti doesn't support otg. ;>(
However, I was then able to grab the app  .apk file off the phone and side load onto my Digiland tablet. I have hopes it will work there since it supports otg, and it works with my Seek.
btw the Flir One app just updated today on my phone, but it did not auto update (yet) on the tablet.
I did this by using ES File Explorer to share the .apk file onto my Google Drive account, Then I downloaded it from the Google Drive with my tablet and installed it.

   ...ken...

[mikeselectricstuff]

I was able to load the app from the play store on to my Samsung S4 mini even though It is not compatible since ti doesn't support otg. ;>(
However, I was then able to grab the app  .apk file off the phone and side load onto my Digiland tablet. I have hopes it will work there since it supports otg, and it works with my Seek.
btw the Flir One app just updated today on my phone, but it did not auto update (yet) on the tablet.
I did this by using ES File Explorer to share the .apk file onto my Google Drive account, Then I downloaded it from the Google Drive with my tablet and installed it.

   ...ken...

any chance you could send me a copy - I don't have anthing that will get it from the play store. mike@electricstuff.co.uk

[Monkeh]

I was able to load the app from the play store on to my Samsung S4 mini even though It is not compatible since ti doesn't support otg. ;>(
However, I was then able to grab the app  .apk file off the phone and side load onto my Digiland tablet. I have hopes it will work there since it supports otg, and it works with my Seek.
btw the Flir One app just updated today on my phone, but it did not auto update (yet) on the tablet.
I did this by using ES File Explorer to share the .apk file onto my Google Drive account, Then I downloaded it from the Google Drive with my tablet and installed it.

   ...ken...

any chance you could send me a copy - I don't have anthing that will get it from the play store. mike@electricstuff.co.uk

You should have mail.

[cynfab]

It should be on the way.

[mikeselectricstuff]

Thanks - doesn't work on tablet but working now on Moto G

[encryptededdy]

I hope it runs on the Moto G for the sake of Aurora and Mike, however I can understand why if it doesn't.

If you look on the FLIR approved devices page, even high end devices like the Nexus 7 Gen 2 with it's Snapdragon 600 are marked "Video recording slow".

Heck, even the Galaxy tab S (high end 8 core exynos chip) is marked video recording slow.

I have a feeling that even if you get the app to work on the Moto G, you will find the performance unsatisfactory.

[mikeselectricstuff]

It works but framerate is only about 3fps. Maybe they're not enabling it until they can get a better framerate

[mikeselectricstuff]

It works but framerate is only about 3fps.

And about 1 second lag

[TheSteve]

Kind of looks like you need a Snapdragon 801 processor or newer/better for it to perform decent.

[Fraser]

Oh dear.

If this is the case, FLIR have dropped the ball badly as they will effectively lose a large share of the potential user base. A potential buyer would possibly see the FLIR ONE G2 as reasonable value for money at its present selling price, BUT, if you add the cost of a high end powerful smartphone to the equation it becomes a very expensive purchase indeed.

This isn't making any sense to me at all. Such a thermal core should not need a very high powered host as proven by the iOS version. It smells of poor coding to me. We shall have to see how the situation develops over the coming days/weeks.

If the new FLIR ONE G2 does end up needing a miniature super computer to run its Android APP, I know one company that will be laughing all the way to the bank...SEEK Thermal  At least their APP ran OK on my MOTO G.

Aurora

[mikeselectricstuff]

Seek on the same phone isn't brilliant but framerate is better.

Has anyone dug sufficiently deep into Seek to tell if they are doing much of the processing on the phone?

I've not pulled it apart yet (yes, I am really that busy!) but I'd be surprised if it wasn't basically the same as the original, with the Linux processor. It does take a few seconds to turn on, like the F1 Mk.1
 

[Fraser]

Mike,

IIRC Toploser has already taken the iOS version apart and posted pictures. From memory it had a half decent processor in the FLIR ONE G2. I would have expected the image processing for noise etc to be done on the Host but that should be within the capabilities of a quad core MOTO G surely ? It should be similar to the requirements of the E4 and I do not recall that having a mega computer within its case.

Aurora

[encryptededdy]

Mike,

IIRC Toploser has already taken the iOS version apart and posted pictures. From memory it had a half decent processor in the FLIR ONE G2. I would have expected the image processing for noise etc to be done on the Host but that should be within the capabilities of a quad core MOTO G surely ? It should be similar to the requirements of the E4 and I do not recall that having a mega computer within its case.

Aurora

Mabye the 12um microbolometer needs much more processing (see how noisy the Seek is) than the 17um one in the FLIR E4 in order to get a good image?

Perhaps the Seek just has better performance because of less image processing (and therefore worse image)?