EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)

[FrankBuss]

Should I dare watch this?

There are some interesting things, like a Spice battery model (they don't link any references, but I googled it).

Then there are the bullshit parts, starting at 8:13: He draws a 100 mA current line and says the energy left is not the area under the voltage curve, but the area under the current line. Has nothing to do with how much power is left and of course, most modern devices needs constant power.

And as already debunked, at 26:38 they repeat that the Garmin device stops functioning after 1:52 hour, but the message on the screen is only a warning for the backlight. As firewalker found out here, the message could be "The battery power is too low for full backlight. Use rechargeable NiMH or lithium batteries to prevent this limitation.". I did a screenshot and tried some filters to enhance it, and I'm sure this is the message:



Technically maybe you could say that lower backlight means "stop functioning", if they mean 100% functioning and the batteriser would indeed help for this device for this use case. Of course, without the batterise it might be possible to use the GPS device much longer, because the full backlight needs much more power, so this is reasonable for the firmware. But it looks like it does a peak detection. They should improve the firmware and do some average over some seconds, because from the current consumption diagram you can see that it works in constant power mode, so there is an internal boost converter. Short drops below the cutoff voltage doesn't matter.

For the scope part they are using a 0.1 ohm shunt (30:20 in the video: "for every one millivolt you get ten milliamps"). This would result in a voltage drop of 0.046 for the 460 mA, so at least they got this right and it doesn't matter that much for the cutoff voltage. The rest of the video is arguing, that the batteriser prevents such spikes. Adding a 10 cent capacitor, or fixing the firmware of the Garmin device, would solve this, too.

If a laywer would watch the video, they might not say anything wrong, but it is all very misleading and the batteriser is not useful for 99% of all devices.

PS: I'm one of the 10% who knew the right answer for the snail question

[AmmoJammo]

If I'm throwing away batteries with unknown capacity left, it's because I'm going away, and want new batteries in my digital camera, or I've removed them from a device that I haven't used, or don't plan to use, for a while, and don't want to risk them leaking...

Other than that, they get left in devices till they'll no longer function, at which point the cells are depleted!

[EEVblog]

Ooops, looks like they've disabled comments on that new youtube video.

That's it, the end, they lose. 

Whilst I love laughing at the train wreck that is Batteriser, I can't help but think the best move is to simply ignore them now and let the product just die a natural death?

[Delta]

Ooops, looks like they've disabled comments on that new youtube video.

That's it, the end, they lose. 

Whilst I love laughing at the train wreck that is Batteriser, I can't help but think the best move is to simply ignore them now and let the product just die a natural death?

Bollocks to that Dave!  Keep prodding them until they admit defeat!

[AmmoJammo]

Prod them like the monkey!

But please don't video it...

[Fungus]

Did they really not do any test on the Batteriser itself in a 40min video?

Nope.

Oh dear 
Please tell me it has efficiency curves?

Snork. 

You owe me a new keyboard. 

[TheAmmoniacal]

Ooops, looks like they've disabled comments on that new youtube video.

That's it, the end, they lose. 

Whilst I love laughing at the train wreck that is Batteriser, I can't help but think the best move is to simply ignore them now and let the product just die a natural death?

Just one final video, just one! Film yourself watching it live and comment on the go if you don't want to waste more time!

[EEVblog]

Bollocks to that Dave!  Keep prodding them until they admit defeat!

It gets tiring, like debating young earth creationists. It's fun for a while and then you just have to give up.
I won't get around to doing a responsive video for quite a while on this one (if I have the enthusiasm after watching it), too much else going on.
It would be great if others could also pick up the baton. I can't be the only one in town doing the public video debunking.

[EEVblog]

Just one final video, just one! Film yourself watching it live and comment on the go if you don't want to waste more time!

I thought about that, but that would not be very worthwhile and concise for people who want to learn. It would end up as a mess of a long video, it's a bad idea for such technical things.

[firewalker]

The next video could be with the batteriser under real tests.

Alexander.

[Delta]

The next video could be with the batteriser under real tests.

Alexander.

No one has an actual Batteriser, but there must be people on here with 1.5v boost converters kicking around that they could play with?

An AA cell in a device, time how long it runs for. Then a new AA -> boost converter -> device.  Simples! 😀

[firewalker]

Their campaign was "successful" so the product will be out.

Alexander.

[EEVblog]

Their campaign was "successful" so the product will be out.

If they don't have any issues with production.

[Kalvin]

Their campaign was "successful" so the product will be out.

If they don't have any issues with production.

Like the device doesn't increase the available energy from the batteries by 80% ie. the battery capacity available will be less than promised 1.80 * nominal battery capacity? 

[Fungus]

Like the device doesn't increase the available energy from the batteries by 80% ie. the battery capacity available will be less than promised 1.80 * nominal battery capacity? 

Where did you get the 80% number from? Batteriser gives you 800%, not 80%.

[Kalvin]

Like the device doesn't increase the available energy from the batteries by 80% ie. the battery capacity available will be less than promised 1.80 * nominal battery capacity? 

Where did you get the 80% number from? Batteriser gives you 800%, not 80%.

Maybe I missed just one zero. But as we speak about the Batteriser, zeros don't count. 

[Godzil]

My main problem with Bob and his brother (or even the Chris one) is that they seems to really believe what they are saying.

There is no way you could do a 40min video like that, showing your face without believing for even 1ns on what you are saying.

The main problem is that this person have a really basic knowledge of what EE is, discovered some stuff recently, but never work on real hardware design, and believe they found THE solution, as their test are completely flawed that they give them false confidence in what they claim..

maybe 10 or 15 years ago I would may have thought the same thing about the spike that "make the device stop" but since, I've learn thing, look how device are designed, done some design myself (not a lot that's true, but work on some design by others, event crapish Chinese design) or better watch Dave's YT channel, and learn things, taught myself, learn from other experience, and even if some part of what they say is true, seeing the "unintentional" scam around is clear.

In fact, they are not thinking outside the box, they are completely inside the box, so deep inside that they can't see how false they are...

[Kalvin]

In fact, they are not thinking outside the box, they are completely inside the box, so deep inside that they can't see how false they are...

Most definitely thay are thinking outside the box. Outside the box called "practical reality".

Anyway, they got the funds to start production. Max. 10% - 20% of the customers will bother asking for a refund, so they will still have the 80% - 90% profit in their pockets.

[Godzil]

In fact, they are not thinking outside the box, they are completely inside the box, so deep inside that they can't see how false they are...

Most definitely thay are thinking outside the box. Outside the box called "practical reality".

Or maybe *we* are outside the box of "reality distortion field"

At least theirs are not as strong and good as Jobs' one.

[LabSpokane]

At 9:33, Frankie demonstrates on YouTube for the whole world to see that the essence of their claims is that the Batteriser is an over-unity device.

Frankie is either deliberately or ignorantly confusing the voltage at the device's (Batteriser's output/device input) terminals with the voltage at the battery's terminals. The voltage at the battery's terminals DOES NOT GO UP because the Batteriser is attached. That voltage must go down due to the increased current draw in order to boost the voltage at the device terminals.

This so bad it's hard to find adjectives. Batteroo just invalidated at least some of their patent claims. By themselves. On YouTube. 

 

[Hugoneus]

Nothing says "We are making scientific, verifiable and honest claims" better than when you disable YouTube rating and comments.

Batterriser you are an embarrassment to the field of engineering.

[Godzil]

I start to think that he beleive that as the batteratruc is forcing the output voltage to 1.5V, that why "constant current" form a rectangle, and why only a rectangle is the only way to calculate the remaining power.

[apis]

If they don't have any issues with production.

This was just an attempt to dazzle us with Dr. Bob's résumé, it's just a bunch of smoke and mirrors to obfuscate and confuse. There is no way to debate with them because they are not interested in truth, they are just seeing this as an advertising/pr campaign. They will never admit they are wrong, not even when pigs fly.

I was looking forward to some real eevblog tests of the batteriser though, but yea that assumed there will ever be a real product. 

[firewalker]

They have disabled comments for all of the videos.

Also I can see a Thumbs Up/Down number. Why? Because of the comments being disabled?

Alexander.

[meeder]

They are engaged in damage control. Disabling comments, deleting comments are telltale signs of panic.