3D Printer yet?

[mnementh]

bean and I like CReality; we feel the price/performance ratio is off the hook. I've bought & built a couple Creality clones; a Tevo Tornado (CR10 clone) & a Longer LK4 Pro/Diggro Alpha 3 (Ender 3 Clone).

I like the Ender 3 well enough that I've recommended it to many people; particularly as a first build because they are available as a 98% assembled kit that literally takes minutes to have up & printing. It is an amazing value; with models from ~US$200-350 that all share the same simple, durable DNA. That DNA is good enough that even my cheaper clones were similarly easy to build and get printing right out of the box; everyone I know who has bought an E3 has loved it for the same reason. 

That said... right now I think the CReality CR6-SE is the best thing since sliced bread; it has a ton of next-gen features, and it is designed from the ground up to be a 5-minute build specifically aimed at the first-time builder. I like the feature set enough that is is the first genuine CReality printer I have seen that I was willing to pay full price for at ~US$360 delivered from the Kickstarter.

From the *ahem* conversation in here, it appears Scram and Monkeh prefer to recommend the Prusa line. While not as attractive a build, they have a good support network (as does the E3) and people will help you get it running and teach you how to tweak it for excellent results.

IMO, the differences boil down to two factors: Initial build is not as "Lego Easy" with the Prusas as it is with the Ender 3. It requires some tweaking to get it printing well; this means many first-time builders will get frustrated. I know I did on several that I helped others build. But... there is a tradeoff.

The E3 is easy, and solidly built, and will print usable, even good quality prints out of the box with little or no tweaking. However, it uses less precise polyurethane-covered rollers riding on v-slot extrusion. You can only get so much precision out of that, so there is a limit to just how fine a print you can make. Period.

With Prusa, the road from first build to usable quality prints is longer, the learning curve is steeper right out of the box, and every build does require tweaking to get to "usable" quality prints, which you get just by bolting an E3 together. HOWEVER... because the Prusa uses ground rods & linear bearings which are inherently more precise, you CAN tweak it to get better precision and better looking prints than the E3 can yield. But THAT requires getting a fair bit deeper into the nut & volts of how a 3DP works than I feel is reasonable for a first machine.

All sniping and personality conflicts set aside; this is the most concise and impartial recommendation I can make:

There are a number of good printers out there; I've recommended the E3 to many happy users. But the CR6-SE is the first I've seen that was designed to make the first-time builder's experience Lego-easy, and I believe it is worth the ~US$350 pricetag just for that and the slightly larger 235x235x250 build volume. I feel the next-gen upgrades (including Touchscreen UI, pre-configured mesh auto-leveling, Trinamic silent steppers and clone Ultrabase build plate) that come built-in make it worthwhile for the more experienced builder, just for the decreased hassle-factor. I believe in it enough that I bought one.

mnem
*putting on muh flame-proof jammies*

[mnementh]

@Monkeh -

I mean this with all sincerity: I applaud your courage, and if I wasn't already wearing muh flame-proof jammies, I'd offer 'em tooya.

I agree with you on the cheap noisy fans issue; they are a plague on all entry-level 3DP. However, the Trinamic drivers are becoming a more common OEM part; CReality has several models with them (including the CR6-SE I'm so enamored of) and while I dislike the way Longer eviscerated a lot of the functionality of the MKS Gen L with their controller on my Alpha-3, I do appreciate the RAMPS 1.4.4-style upgraded MOSFETS, socketed steppers and yes, genuine Trinamic drivers. Still a good value for the tinkerer, IMO, at US$230 delivered next day via Amazon Prime if that service ever comes available again.

mnem
 

[Monkeh]

With Prusa, the road from first build to usable quality prints is longer, the learning curve is steeper right out of the box, and every build does require tweaking to get to "usable" quality prints

I really don't see how you can apply this to a Mini when you've never built one. It's not remotely the same as a Mk2 or Mk3 kit: You bolt a couple of major assemblies together, plug a few connectors in, run a brief test and calibration procedure, adjust the probe offset, and print.

[beanflying]

I’m thinking about getting a 3D printer.  Was going to ask for advice. But reading the last page of posts, I think I’m going to get conflicting information

Anyway, never used one in my life, but am very mechanically minded, having to tinker and adjust things isn’t a problem.

Not looking to spend a fortune, but want something that is usable and will remain so for years to come. (Am thinking of £500 max with everything I need)

Space is a problem, height doesn’t matter but ideally no more than 56 cm (22 inch) from front to back, width as near to that as possible although can be a little wider if needed.

Noise will be a problem as my house has living room and dining room knocked into one, and my labs in the dining room. Wife won’t put up with constant loud noise when she is watching TV.

As for what I want it for, haven’t a clue really, just always wanted one and have a bit of spare cash at the moment and it’s probably buy one now, or never get one. In the past I’ve tried to fix things with broken cogs etc on, being able to make broken parts is one thing. Making various storage solutions for my electronic components is another.

Any suggestions or can anyone point me to a non biased site giving the pros and cons of the various cheaper models?

Thanks

Another one to throw onto the Bonfire pile of small printers to consider is the Cetus https://www.cetus3d.com/ Dropping a simple enclose over any printer sounds like a good idea too. https://www.cetus3d.com/ The now available Smoothieware compatible board takes away some of the reservations I would have had with the earlier locked infrastructure ones.

[Monkeh]

Another one to throw onto the Bonfire pile of small printers to consider is the Cetus https://www.cetus3d.com/ Dropping a simple enclose over any printer sounds like a good idea too. https://www.cetus3d.com/ The now available Smoothieware compatible board takes away some of the reservations I would have had with the earlier locked infrastructure ones.

Ahh, the Cetus, I forgot about that. I recall hearing good things.

Shame about the Smoothieware.. But as I recall, the vendor firmware only works with their own slicer which rafts everything, so I guess Smoothie isn't so bad.. I haven't exactly kept up with it, though.

[mnementh]

With Prusa, the road from first build to usable quality prints is longer, the learning curve is steeper right out of the box, and every build does require tweaking to get to "usable" quality prints

I really don't see how you can apply this to a Mini when you've never built one. It's not remotely the same as a Mk2 or Mk3 kit: You bolt a couple of major assemblies together, plug a few connectors in, run a brief test and calibration procedure, adjust the probe offset, and print.

I watched Josef's build video on it. The E3 is easier. The CR6-SE is easier than that. What more can I say?

Also, I really can't in good conscience recommend any cantilever architecture printer, no matter who made it. And then, of course, there's the tiny 180mm x 180mm x 180mm build volume... it's a little bit more than 1/3 that of the CR6-SE. 

mnem
 

[Monkeh]

With Prusa, the road from first build to usable quality prints is longer, the learning curve is steeper right out of the box, and every build does require tweaking to get to "usable" quality prints

I really don't see how you can apply this to a Mini when you've never built one. It's not remotely the same as a Mk2 or Mk3 kit: You bolt a couple of major assemblies together, plug a few connectors in, run a brief test and calibration procedure, adjust the probe offset, and print.

I watched Josef's build video on it. The E3 is easier. The CR6-SE is easier than that. What more can I say?

You could explain how a fairly simple assembly procedure leads to 'every build requires tweaking'.. Oh, why bother.

[beanflying]

Off topic but I had a stash of Stepper Drives arrive today for my 100W Laser build so I did what any responsible EEVBlog member should do I took it apart slicing the warranty void sticker in the process Two Banks of four fets under the board heatsinked to the 3mm Case should get the job done. Conformal coating is a bit average but the rest looks well assembled.

Three drivers for around 1/2 the price of a complete Ender 3.

[Jeroen3]

Today I saw on reddit a filament jam detection sensor.
https://reddit.com/r/prusa3d/comments/gifx5s/a_clog_detector_all_files_available/

Ingenius, why don't the printers have this yet?

[xrunner]

Here's another example of real world (is there a false world?  ) usage for a 3D printer for anyone out there considering one. Another woodworking tool - this time a cheap 90 deg corner clamp. It isn't high quality and the "pads" are very sloppy and move side-to-side too much. I whipped up a quick adapter in Fusion 360 which fits over the top and fixes the sloppiness and also makes them a little wider. Came out right the first time. Took about 25 min. to print each one. Might make them a little taller but they work great like they are.

[Mr. Scram]

No, med was not trolling. med and I are old friends, and we happened to have a disagreement in thread. The fact you don't see that, and know that like adults, we worked it out, is exactly what I'm talking about. You only see ammunition to use in your attacks.  You really ARE a well-known troll, you have earned this reputation, and I am sick and tired of defending you to my friends.

Your questions about which models I worked with, as you've correctly stated, were immaterial; I ignored them as the obvious attempt to drag me back into a semantic argument I'm already tired of that they clearly are.



Do you have any experience with any of the CReality or clone printers that bean and I have suggested? Or do you simply assume that because you battled your way through all those Prusa builds it's only fair to expect others to do so?

The disagreement we keep having here is NOT one of "how much quality" can you get out of a Prusa; you can get quality out of a plywood RepRap build, especially if you have help. It's whether the "kit" is appropriately simple, pre-assembled and idiot-tolerant to be a good choice as a first build. It's over the amount of fettling required to get a usable print on your first build. What an experienced builder considers to be easy is not the same as what a noob will consider to be so. I learned those lessons the hard way through lots of

The Prusa kits STILL aren't even in the same league as the E3 for simplicity. Nor do they have the E3's proven track record of being a FDM printer that is just plain easy to live with. They require maintenance due to the choice of materials that just isn't there with an extrusion-framed build.

There are SO MANY printers out there which produce similar or better results to the Prusa, that it's hard to believe someone with your vast experience can't come up with some good firsthand reasons other than "these guys say it's good" and "I didn't think it was that bad".

I don't know... maybe it's a matter of philosophy, and you just click well with the Prusa crowd, and just don't see what I see in the comparative assache factor of the two kits as a first build. If that's the case, I guess I'll never be able to make you see it.

For the difference in price, you can certainly start with a nice easy E3 or CR-10, THEN when you've gotten a handle on what you're doing, it's EASY and cheap to upgrade to linears & rods or sliders, making them every bit the equal of the Prusa (because hey, they ARE Prusa-derived), only on a more stable base so less fettling over the long run. Two of my friends from my old hackspace, and many popular figures online have gone exactly that route.

But there I go saying "These guys say it's good."

mnem
 

You're still trying to make an argument out of your experience, which you at the same time refuse to quantify, even after indulging your attempt to upstage the people in this thread. It seems pretty obvious that being more specific than you are would show how silly all this noise you've been making has been. I'm still not sure what this experience is supposed to tell us. Apparently you had a bad time with earlier printers. Maybe that tells us earlier printers were a bit more of a pain to put together or use. Maybe it just tells us you couldn't figure them out.

Either way it doesn't seem to relate to the discussion at hand. The consensus seems to be the modern Prusa MK3 is an excellent printer for a complete novice. The video I posted before and will post again goes through some lengths to explain how and why. The Prusa comes with an excellent user manual and is incredibly easy to put together. It comes with additional video instructions. There's excellent support from both manufacturer and community. It's very easy to get high quality prints from the printer. It's a more liveable and easy printer than the E3 and ultimately it's a better printer. Start at 5:48 for the most relevant bit. Does that make the Ender 3 a bad printer for a beginner? No, it doesn't. It gets surprisingly close for a lot less money. Pretending it's a better printer for beginners is however doing said beginners a disservice.

[Mr. Scram]

bean and I like CReality; we feel the price/performance ratio is off the hook. I've bought & built a couple Creality clones; a Tevo Tornado (CR10 clone) & a Longer LK4 Pro/Diggro Alpha 3 (Ender 3 Clone).

I like the Ender 3 well enough that I've recommended it to many people; particularly as a first build because they are available as a 98% assembled kit that literally takes minutes to have up & printing. It is an amazing value; with models from ~US$200-350 that all share the same simple, durable DNA. That DNA is good enough that even my cheaper clones were similarly easy to build and get printing right out of the box; everyone I know who has bought an E3 has loved it for the same reason. 

That said... right now I think the CReality CR6-SE is the best thing since sliced bread; it has a ton of next-gen features, and it is designed from the ground up to be a 5-minute build specifically aimed at the first-time builder. I like the feature set enough that is is the first genuine CReality printer I have seen that I was willing to pay full price for at ~US$360 delivered from the Kickstarter.

From the *ahem* conversation in here, it appears Scram and Monkeh prefer to recommend the Prusa line. While not as attractive a build, they have a good support network (as does the E3) and people will help you get it running and teach you how to tweak it for excellent results.

IMO, the differences boil down to two factors: Initial build is not as "Lego Easy" with the Prusas as it is with the Ender 3. It requires some tweaking to get it printing well; this means many first-time builders will get frustrated. I know I did on several that I helped others build. But... there is a tradeoff.

The E3 is easy, and solidly built, and will print usable, even good quality prints out of the box with little or no tweaking. However, it uses less precise polyurethane-covered rollers riding on v-slot extrusion. You can only get so much precision out of that, so there is a limit to just how fine a print you can make. Period.

With Prusa, the road from first build to usable quality prints is longer, the learning curve is steeper right out of the box, and every build does require tweaking to get to "usable" quality prints, which you get just by bolting an E3 together. HOWEVER... because the Prusa uses ground rods & linear bearings which are inherently more precise, you CAN tweak it to get better precision and better looking prints than the E3 can yield. But THAT requires getting a fair bit deeper into the nut & volts of how a 3DP works than I feel is reasonable for a first machine.

All sniping and personality conflicts set aside; this is the most concise and impartial recommendation I can make:

There are a number of good printers out there; I've recommended the E3 to many happy users. But the CR6-SE is the first I've seen that was designed to make the first-time builder's experience Lego-easy, and I believe it is worth the ~US$350 pricetag just for that and the slightly larger 235x235x250 build volume. I feel the next-gen upgrades (including Touchscreen UI, pre-configured mesh auto-leveling, Trinamic silent steppers and clone Ultrabase build plate) that come built-in make it worthwhile for the more experienced builder, just for the decreased hassle-factor. I believe in it enough that I bought one.

mnem
*putting on muh flame-proof jammies*

I don't "prefer to recommend the Prusa line". That's the kind of misconceptions you get when the fanboy/hater crowd perturbs any nuanced discussion. It all depends on your situations and preferences. The Ender 3 is a pretty good printer. If your budget is a few hundred bucks or you just want to get your feet wet you cannot really go wrong with it, especially when compared to its competitors at the same price point. If you have more money to burn, the Prusa MK3 is an excellent option. Building one is easy. The quality, ease of use and general liveability is ultimately just better. It comes at a much steeper price though and that's why there isn't a single answer for everyone.

You want a decent printer and excellent value for money? Go with the Ender 3 Pro. You'll get printing in no time and learn a lot without tearing your hair out. You want the better printer and can spare the extra cash? Get the MK3.

[Mr. Scram]

Here's another example of real world (is there a false world?  ) usage for a 3D printer for anyone out there considering one. Another woodworkiing tool - this time a cheap 90 deg corner clamp. It isn't high quality and the "pads" are very sloppy and move side-to-side too much. I whipped up a quick adapter in Fusion 360 which fits over the top and fixes the sloppiness and also makes them a little wider. Came out right the first time. Took about 25 min. to print each one. Might make them a little taller but they work great like they are.

(Attachment Link)

This guy has some pretty cool functional prints for the shop. Some feel a little bit like a solution looking for a problem, but many are very practical.

[Monkeh]

The consensus seems to be the modern Prusa MK3 is an excellent printer for a complete novice.

I have to admit I would agree the kit form is not a good idea for anyone not already mechanically inclined - there's too many fragile parts and too much 'feel' needed (I don't consider this any different for a kit with all metal components - small screws and aluminium threads are fragile). However, anyone who's got a few years of tinkering with any small mechanical systems under their belt (no pun intended) should be okay.

The Mini, on the other hand, is in an entirely different category no matter how badly Josef managed to screw up a video introduction to it.

[mnementh]

Today I saw on reddit a filament jam detection sensor.  https://reddit.com/r/prusa3d/comments/gifx5s/a_clog_detector_all_files_available/  Ingenius, why don't the printers have this yet?

That is ingenious... can a clog cause any kind of catastrophic failure that could occur in the 7-minute window? The only thing I can think of would be blowing a weak pneumatic coupler apart; but that would be more a "You needed to fix this anyways" scenario. I imagine 7 min is long enough to avoid false positive during a ironing operation on most flat surfaces.

mnem
 

[Mr. Scram]

I have to admit I would agree the kit form is not a good idea for anyone not already mechanically inclined - there's too many fragile parts and too much 'feel' needed (I don't consider this any different for a kit with all metal components - small screws and aluminium threads are fragile). However, anyone who's got a few years of tinkering with any small mechanical systems under their belt (no pun intended) should be okay.

The Mini, on the other hand, is in an entirely different category no matter how badly Josef managed to screw up a video introduction to it.

The video compares it to building a Lego set, so I guess that if you manage one of those without ingesting too many bricks you should be fine. You could always order a ready to print MK3 as that's a service they provide, but if that's for reasons of ineptitude I don't think 3D printers are for you. I feel that's more for people who already know what they're doing and just need a printer to produce prints. I don't think there's a printer on the market which doesn't require tinkering sooner or later and having a basic grasp of its principles is essentially required. I guess we're saying the same thing.

[xrunner]

This guy has some pretty cool functional prints for the shop. Some feel a little bit like a solution looking for a problem, but many are very practical.

He does as much 3D printing as woodworking, but that's cool. Lots of ideas there, just goes to show 3D printing is a great way to add functionality and improvements to many things you might not realize at first.

But, that video reminds me - I need a center finder too and so now I will get that model and print also. Thanks. 

[mnementh]

Scram... you are STILL trolling ME. PLEASE stop. No matter how smugly conservative your word choice is, the fact you won't stop beleaguering me IS TROLLING.

The consensus seems to be the modern Prusa MK3 is an excellent printer for a complete novice.

No... that is A consensus between some people, two of which are in this thread. I have relevant experience, and I disagree. DEAL WITH IT.

HobGoblyn asked for opinions... that was my considered opinion, and I don't need to justify myself to you for that, nor do I have to allow you to drag me into another of your incessant nit-picking sessions. Furthermore, anybody but YOU can see that I deliberately tried NOT to be antagonistic in my opinion... yet you simply WILL NOT LET IT GO.

You are a selfish, obsessive, relentless individual, who cares only about being right, or if you can't do that, getting the last word in.

PLEASE, go stalk someone ELSE.

mnem
I'm all out of pithy right now.

[Mr. Scram]

Scram... you are STILL trolling ME. PLEASE stop. No matter how smugly conservative your word choice is, the fact you won't stop beleaguering me IS TROLLING.

The consensus seems to be the modern Prusa MK3 is an excellent printer for a complete novice.

No... that is A consensus between some people, two of which are in this thread. I have relevant experience, and I disagree. DEAL WITH IT.

HobGoblyn asked for opinions... that was my considered opinion, and I don't need to justify myself to you for that, nor do I have to allow you to drag me into another of your incessant nit-picking sessions. Furthermore, anybody but YOU can see that I deliberately tried NOT to be antagonistic in my opinion... yet you simply WILL NOT LET IT GO.

You are a selfish, obsessive, relentless individual, who cares only about being right, or if you can't do that, getting the last word in.

PLEASE, go stalk someone ELSE.

mnem
I'm all out of pithy right now.

Everyone is trolling. It's never mnementh. The only reason all this noise happens again and again is because refuse to accept you may not be an expert. Whenever this is so much as hinted at, here or elsewhere, you start throwing a fit, bullying and posting endless walls of text with loud fonts. Anything to distract from the discussion at hand. The whole tactic depends on well adjusted people deciding they don't need all that noise sooner or later and leaving the discussion, avoiding a conclusion. I guess we need to see it through for once to have any chance of things changing. People are tired of tiptoeing around a frail ego.

Your experience is wholly irrelevant, not only because an argument from authority is a fallacy, but also because you won't divulge your experience but still attempt to derive authority from it. Its should be noted my experience is as irrelevant as yours, which is why the argument depends on the authority of someone with actual hands-on experience with both printers. The Prusa comes with an excellent user manual and is incredibly easy to put together. He shows it comes with additional video instructions. There's excellent support from both manufacturer and community. It's very easy to get high quality prints from the printer. It's a more liveable and easy printer than the E3 and ultimately it's a better printer. The video shows a well worded and detailed opinion how various printers compare, and why. The conclusions seem to reflect the majority opinion. How two idiots on a fairly obscure forum feel about it is wholly irrelevant. So let's get back to discussing 3D printers. This shit is supposed to be fun.

[HobGoblyn]

The consensus seems to be the modern Prusa MK3 is an excellent printer for a complete novice.

I have to admit I would agree the kit form is not a good idea for anyone not already mechanically inclined - there's too many fragile parts and too much 'feel' needed (I don't consider this any different for a kit with all metal components - small screws and aluminium threads are fragile). However, anyone who's got a few years of tinkering with any small mechanical systems under their belt (no pun intended) should be okay.

The Mini, on the other hand, is in an entirely different category no matter how badly Josef managed to screw up a video introduction to it.

Kit would be fine for me, over the decades I’ve lost count of the things I’ve stripped down and fixed (and others being amazed I got them back together lol).

[Monkeh]

The consensus seems to be the modern Prusa MK3 is an excellent printer for a complete novice.

I have to admit I would agree the kit form is not a good idea for anyone not already mechanically inclined - there's too many fragile parts and too much 'feel' needed (I don't consider this any different for a kit with all metal components - small screws and aluminium threads are fragile). However, anyone who's got a few years of tinkering with any small mechanical systems under their belt (no pun intended) should be okay.

The Mini, on the other hand, is in an entirely different category no matter how badly Josef managed to screw up a video introduction to it.

Kit would be fine for me, over the decades I’ve lost count of the things I’ve stripped down and fixed (and others being amazed I got them back together lol).

It is, however, a £700 kit which needs probably a little more space than you have.

[Mr. Scram]

It is, however, a £700 kit which needs probably a little more space than you have.

With a budget of £500 and size constraints I don't think the MK3 is a good match. A problem is that smaller printers often come with disproportionally small print volumes.  Many smaller prints seem to be counter-lever models, which I agree with mnementh seem fundamentally less ideal. Comparing actual print results sounds like a good idea. The Prusa Mini may be an interesting option as it's both smaller and silent, but I don't know enough about those to really recommend one. I think you did more research into them.

[Nuno_pt]

From my point of view, I'm just starting to get my feet wet on 3D, makes sense the Ender 3 Pro or the new 3v2, they cost little, quality is good from what I read on international forums and also in my country forums, allot of support from the community, this will be to print not much complicate things like some toys for the kids, frames for pictures, some boxes to keep the components, some parts for my airsoft guns, by the time I can do all that in a good and decent way, I should be able to see if I need to upgrade or to buy something better or not, them is the all part of maybe building an enclosure for the printer to make stable printing.

So lots to learn, then see if I need to move to something else.

In my country there are allot of guys using between 3 to 7 Enders 3 Pro all upgrade and they don't buy another brand, but on the opposite side  you also have lot's of guys with a cluster of MK3 and MK3s. 

[HobGoblyn]

Many thanks all.

I've watched the youtube vid Mr Scram posted.

From that, while the i3 Mk3 came off best in most things, the Ender 3 also came up very good.  The CR10 not so good (but he did stress that might be because his needs adjusting).

Print quality wise, apart from horizontal text printing and 5 degrees less overhang, the Ender 3 seems on par with the I3 Mk3 quality (Ender 3 had less string with the tiny vertical bits).

He stressed how much easier the i3 Mk3 is to use and how quite it is.


I've spent a few hours watching various youtube on the Ender 3 (will watch some on the other models suggested to me in this thread tomorrow), and it seems that I can upgrade it to be virtually silent with things like motor dampers etc.  From what I've watched, I THINK (haven't done my sums yet) I could get the Ender 3 and all the bits to upgrade, for 1/2 the price the i3 Mk3 costs.

Then we come to space.  I have two options.  I'm in the middle of rearranging my lab at the moment, I've attached as few pics if anyone's interested, the table to the left hand side, is really totally unused (it has an external disk drive and an audio interface on it, both could be put underneath the table).  The only thing on it is my second monitor (both monitors on those arms that allow them to go up, down in and out).

The table is only 60 cm deep though, and I'm not sure how I could redesign my monitor (or lab) layout to give me the entire table, maybe I could get a stand that allows it to go above my main monitor.  Height is zero problem, shelves can easily be moved/removed.

The other option is our spare room. I say spare room, junk yard is a more apt description, it's used to store everything. Size is no problem there, but I would have to set up a web cam etc to keep an eye on it. Would much rather it in the main room with my PC etc.

If anyone can suggest a better layout for my lab, that could accommodate a 3D printer,  I'm more than happy to consider it.

Many thanks for all the advice

[Mr. Scram]

Many thanks all.

I've watched the youtube vid Mr Scram posted.

From that, while the i3 Mk3 came off best in most things, the Ender 3 also came up very good.  The CR10 not so good (but he did stress that might be because his needs adjusting).

Print quality wise, apart from horizontal text printing and 5 degrees less overhang, the Ender 3 seems on par with the I3 Mk3 quality (Ender 3 had less string with the tiny vertical bits).

He stressed how much easier the i3 Mk3 is to use and how quite it is.


I've spent a few hours watching various youtube on the Ender 3 (will watch some on the other models suggested to me in this thread tomorrow), and it seems that I can upgrade it to be virtually silent with things like motor dampers etc.  From what I've watched, I THINK (haven't done my sums yet) I could get the Ender 3 and all the bits to upgrade, for 1/2 the price the i3 Mk3 costs.

Then we come to space.  I have two options.  I'm in the middle of rearranging my lab at the moment, I've attached as few pics if anyone's interested, the table to the left hand side, is really totally unused (it has an external disk drive and an audio interface on it, both could be put underneath the table).  The only thing on it is my second monitor (both monitors on those arms that allow them to go up, down in and out).

The table is only 60 cm deep though, and I'm not sure how I could redesign my monitor (or lab) layout to give me the entire table, maybe I could get a stand that allows it to go above my main monitor.  Height is zero problem, shelves can easily be moved/removed.

The other option is our spare room. I say spare room, junk yard is a more apt description, it's used to store everything. Size is no problem there, but I would have to set up a web cam etc to keep an eye on it. Would much rather it in the main room with my PC etc.

If anyone can suggest a better layout for my lab, that could accommodate a 3D printer,  I'm more than happy to consider it.

Many thanks for all the advice

I actually started typing but never posted something in that vein. When you start modding printers you can adapt and adjust parts you don't like. Quieting down an Ender 3 would be a good example of that and is fairly commonly done. While I don't think you should convert an Ender 3 when you really want a MK3, changing what you don't like is a viable approach. I don't think you can really get into printing without also starting modding sooner or later. I don't think you will be disappointed if you buy an Ender 3, especially if you accept you will be making some changes ahead of time. I'd definitely opt for the Ender 3 Pro model over de regular Ender 3 as that's just a sensible improvement. Just having a name brand power supply is worth it.

In terms of space you seem to have oodles of it. The desk would be an option, but maybe you could extend one of the two smaller shelves a bit so the printer can go there. They're not that heavy. Mind that the printer being on a rigid surface helps print quality, but I think you should be able to affix things fairly rigidly to the wall. Just make sure you have somewhat convenient access. Sticking it too high up the wall isn't recommended.