3D Printer yet?

[mnementh]

Okay... so I need to define X and Y bed size to match the build area, and X & Y min & max so moving parts of the printer can't collide with stuffs.

Does X & Y min specify where the actual build area begins on the FL corner, or is that something else...?

mnem
 

Ahh... I think I have it. X & Y min define that the MIN endstop switches are being used; the HOMING section defines where HOME (the beginning point of the print area) is located. Setting these to a positive number will create the offset distance from the limit switches I was wanting to set, I think.

After that I can define the build area.

Oh, and I can see that there is a place to define software MAX end stops in mm as well. 

Anything else I need to look out for, or is that pretty much it for my goofy build area problems...?

mnem
 

[Monkeh]

Okay... so I need to define X and Y bed size to match the build area, and X & Y min & max so moving parts of the printer can't collide with stuffs.

Does X & Y min specify where the actual build area begins on the FL corner, or is that something else...?

mnem
 

Ahh... I think I have it. X & Y min define that the MIN endstop switches are being used; the HOMING section defines where HOME (the beginning point of the print area) is located. Setting these to a positive number will create the offset distance from the limit switches I was wanting to set, I think.

After that I can define the build area.

Oh, and I can see that there is a place to define software MAX end stops in mm as well. 

Anything else I need to look out for, or is that pretty much it for my goofy build area problems...?

mnem
 

The firmware itself has no real concept of the bed size. The slicer will typically take 0,0 as the bottom left corner. If your endstop causes the nozzle to travel off the bed, X/Y MIN_POS or MAX_POS should be set appropriately. If the X min stop puts the nozzle 6mm left of the bed, X_MIN_POS should be -6 (plus your chosen safety margin, which is essentially 0 for a nice square, flat bed, and probably about 5mm for these machines).

[mnementh]

Huh...?

okay.... here's what I'm looking for... My Tornado, when you'd tell it to Home X-Y, would move these axes until the switches activated (this came pre-configured such that it happened a few mm outside the LF corner of the bed) and wait for the user. But when it printed, it would move to a position within the printspace between the 4 screws (the Tornado uses an oversized ceramic printbed with proud screws which define the print area) and start from there with the initial wipe, pre-extrusion, etc.

I want the same behavior, only that when a print is started it should bring the nozzle to within a few mm inside the front & left edges of the printer, this point being the actual beginning of the print area.

As usual, there is more than one area in Marlin which looks like it will do what I want; I'm not certain of the behavior of X & Y Min & Max vs that of the X & Y software endstops. Short of starting a print which actually challenges these limits I don't know how to confirm their behavior.

mnem
 

[Monkeh]

MIN_POS and MAX_POS are the software endstops. They're also the position of the endstop switches. All the motion after homing (or other automated operations..) is produced by the slicer.

[mnementh]

Ummm... okay.... then what does the section called Software Endstops do...?

This firmware runs two models of printer; mine is the default LK4 Pro in the code below:

Code: [Select]

// @section homing

//#define NO_MOTION_BEFORE_HOMING  // Inhibit movement until all axes have been homed

//#define UNKNOWN_Z_NO_RAISE // Don't raise Z (lower the bed) if Z is "unknown." For beds that fall when Z is powered off.

//#define Z_HOMING_HEIGHT 4  // (in mm) Minimal z height before homing (G28) for Z clearance above the bed, clamps, ...
                             // Be sure you have this distance over your Z_MAX_POS in case.

// Direction of endstops when homing; 1=MAX, -1=MIN
// :[-1,1]
#define X_HOME_DIR -1
#define Y_HOME_DIR -1
#define Z_HOME_DIR -1

// @section machine

#ifdef LK1_Pro
// The size of the print bed
#define X_BED_SIZE 300
#define Y_BED_SIZE 300

// Travel limits (mm) after homing, corresponding to endstop positions.
#define X_MIN_POS 0
#define Y_MIN_POS 0
#define Z_MIN_POS 0
#define X_MAX_POS X_BED_SIZE
#define Y_MAX_POS Y_BED_SIZE
#define Z_MAX_POS 400
#else  //LK4_Pro
// The size of the print bed
#define X_BED_SIZE 220
#define Y_BED_SIZE 220

// Travel limits (mm) after homing, corresponding to endstop positions.
#define X_MIN_POS 0
#define Y_MIN_POS 0
#define Z_MIN_POS 0
#define X_MAX_POS X_BED_SIZE
#define Y_MAX_POS Y_BED_SIZE
#define Z_MAX_POS 250
#endif

/**
 * Software Endstops
 *
 * - Prevent moves outside the set machine bounds.
 * - Individual axes can be disabled, if desired.
 * - X and Y only apply to Cartesian robots.
 * - Use 'M211' to set software endstops on/off or report current state
 */

// Min software endstops constrain movement within minimum coordinate bounds
#define MIN_SOFTWARE_ENDSTOPS
#if ENABLED(MIN_SOFTWARE_ENDSTOPS)
  #define MIN_SOFTWARE_ENDSTOP_X
  #define MIN_SOFTWARE_ENDSTOP_Y
  #define MIN_SOFTWARE_ENDSTOP_Z
#endif

// Max software endstops constrain movement within maximum coordinate bounds
#define MAX_SOFTWARE_ENDSTOPS
#if ENABLED(MAX_SOFTWARE_ENDSTOPS)
  #define MAX_SOFTWARE_ENDSTOP_X
  #define MAX_SOFTWARE_ENDSTOP_Y
  #define MAX_SOFTWARE_ENDSTOP_Z
#endif

#if ENABLED(MIN_SOFTWARE_ENDSTOPS) || ENABLED(MAX_SOFTWARE_ENDSTOPS)
  //#define SOFT_ENDSTOPS_MENU_ITEM  // Enable/Disable software endstops from the LCD
#endif

Thanks.

mnem
 

[Monkeh]

That section chooses whether you want software endstops or not. The values used are MIN_POS and MAX_POS.

If your limit switches allow travel beyond the bed, you need to set the MIN_POS coordinates negative in order to offset 0 to the location of the bed.

[mnementh]

Okay... so this printer came with the end switches set to 0,0 over the printbed (also the start point of the print area), and this is the way they're normally set up?

I figured it was supposed to do the homing action OFF the printbed, to prevent possible crashes when homing the Z axis.

Also figured that since they have all this stuff in there, somebody was just being lazy. 

mnem
There I go thinking again. 

[Monkeh]

That would be the implication of the config. Some printers can travel past the bed area, some can't.

[mnementh]

Makes sense. Right now I'm trying to figure out a little lateral runout issue; seems the bed is slightly off-square. As it's only ~2mm from front-back, might be able to resolve just by loosening the Y-track extrusion and retightening.

mnem
 

[CatalinaWOW]

Okay... so this printer came with the end switches set to 0,0 over the printbed (also the start point of the print area), and this is the way they're normally set up?

I figured it was supposed to do the homing action OFF the printbed, to prevent possible crashes when homing the Z axis.

Also figured that since they have all this stuff in there, somebody was just being lazy. 

mnem
There I go thinking again. 

Homing off the print bed doesn't prevent crashes if the Z axis home is below the print bed.  It just delays the crash until the print starts.  And changes it from a low speed top down crash into a higher speed lateral crash.

[mnementh]

Well, that condition would tend to be suboptimal... we can't plan every failure away.

Makes sense. Right now I'm trying to figure out a little lateral runout issue; seems the bed is slightly off-square. As it's only ~2mm from front-back, might be able to resolve just by loosening the Y-track extrusion and retightening.

mnem
 

Nope.  Guess I'll have to cheat and glue my UltraBase down a little crooked. 

mnem
Meh... good enough for who it's for.

[mnementh]

Well, there's some progress. 

mnem
*toddles off to ded* 

[mnementh]

Wellp... that was short-lived. Between me posting that and the time I actually toddled off to bed, the printer blew up. I checked on my way past to find a hairy mess; random layer shifts for ~3mm in the X-axis, then it started trying to print on air right in the middle of the bed. 

Stopped the print, and it was totes out to lunch; it would stop in the middle of the bed thinking that was its max travel of 232mm. Same after homing and a reboot. I just turned it off and went to bed.

Woke up this morning & tried it again; still exactly the same. I think I need to step away and do something completely unrelated for a while before I start doing some percussive mediation.

mnem
No, I'm not going to post pictures of my FAIL.

[xrunner]

Wellp... that was short-lived. Between me posting that and the time I actually toddled off to bed, the printer blew up. I checked on my way past to find a hairy mess; random layer shifts for ~3mm in the X-axis, then it started trying to print on air right in the middle of the bed. 

Stopped the print, and it was totes out to lunch; it would stop in the middle of the bed thinking that was its max travel of 232mm. Same after homing and a reboot. I just turned it off and went to bed.

Woke up this morning & tried it again; still exactly the same. I think I need to step away and do something completely unrelated for a while before I start doing some percussive mediation.

I'll just give the same advice as I did before 

Yea have drink and take a break - we've all had fucked-up issues like that.

Return with a hammer and beat it into submission. 

[GeorgeOfTheJungle]

Both came out exactly the same,  both looked perfect while on the bed
(Attachment Link)

That's not a good first layer, you've got to move the bed up a bit, it's not squished enough. Don't touch the gcode nor anything in the slicer, just turn (all) the bed's adjust wheels 1/4 .. 1/2 a turn in the up direction, all the same amount and try again.

And use hair laquer, just a small puff is plenty enough.

[HobGoblyn]

Both came out exactly the same,  both looked perfect while on the bed
(Attachment Link)

That's not a good first layer, you've got to move the bed up a bit, it's not squished enough. Don't touch the gcode nor anything in the slicer, just turn (all) the bed's adjust wheels 1/4 .. 1/2 a turn in the up direction, all the same amount and try again.

And use hair laquer, just a small puff is plenty enough.

I was about to post the following:

Tried printing the filament guide from thingyverse (my slicing but followed guide), it would not stick on the left hand side, exactly the same place as the two squares don't stick in post 878, middle stuck firm. in the end I had to use a raft, now it's printing OK.

It's as though that one part of the bed is odd.

Back to what you say, are you telling me to do that and simply try another print, or should I do that and redo my 16 point mesh levelling after?  I presumed the mesh levelling was to overcome things like this?  Surely if I redo my mesh levelling after raising it slightly I'm going to be in exactly the same position, or am I missing something?

Wife's a mobile hairdresser so no shortage of hairspray, but many youtube vids say it should t be needed?

Thanks

[HobGoblyn]

Wellp... that was short-lived. Between me posting that and the time I actually toddled off to bed, the printer blew up. I checked on my way past to find a hairy mess; random layer shifts for ~3mm in the X-axis, then it started trying to print on air right in the middle of the bed. 

Stopped the print, and it was totes out to lunch; it would stop in the middle of the bed thinking that was its max travel of 232mm. Same after homing and a reboot. I just turned it off and went to bed.

Woke up this morning & tried it again; still exactly the same. I think I need to step away and do something completely unrelated for a while before I start doing some percussive mediation.

mnem
No, I'm not going to post pictures of my FAIL.

Glad I'm not alone    

[Monkeh]

And use hair laquer, just a small puff is plenty enough.

The whole point of these print surfaces is to stop doing that.

[GeorgeOfTheJungle]

Back to what you say, are you telling me to do that and simply try another print, or should I do that and redo my 16 point mesh levelling after?  I presumed the mesh levelling was to overcome things like this?  Surely if I redo my mesh levelling after raising it slightly I'm going to be in exactly the same position, or am I missing something?

The mesh is ok and there's no need to redo it because it's an offset relative to Z=0, but at Z=0 you've got the bed too low (IOW, your Z=0 isn't at Z=0 (*)) => the first layer is being printed a bit too high / far from the bed.

If there's a "BED Z" in your MOTION menu move the bed up a smidge (I'd try with 0.15mm, a positive value moves it up, a negative value down), if there's no menu option move it up manually with the adjust wheels (1/4..1/3 turn of the wheel should be enough). But if you do it with the wheels be sure to move all the wheels exactly the same amount if not you'll be tilting the bed.

If you do use hair laquer, it's very easy to clean afterwards with plain water and a damp rag, and it always helps adhesion, but there should be no need to use it if the bed is coated ("ultrabase"), as somebody else has pointed out.

(*) At Z=0 the tip of the nozzle should be just touching the bed. Many people have this adjust wrong because after doing a "LEVEL CORNERS" with a sheet of paper you're leaving the bed 0.1mm below Z=0. Correct that by setting "BED Z" to +0.1, or move it up manually with the wheels.

[GeorgeOfTheJungle]

Tried printing the filament guide from thingyverse (my slicing but followed guide), it would not stick on the left hand side, exactly the same place as the two squares don't stick in post 878, middle stuck firm. in the end I had to use a raft, now it's printing OK.

It's as though that one part of the bed is odd.

That's not very unlikely (a bed that isn't flat/has highs and lows). And if the mesh points aren't enough / are too far away one from another, the ABL/mesh can't correct it. But you can put up to 7*7 mesh points in config.h. I'd try that. I have a bed like that in a CR10 and the 49 points mesh does the trick.

[mnementh]

               

So... this afternoon I finally got up the ambition to survey the damage; the x-axis felt weird at approx 20-60mm travel, like it was binding or something. Between that and the weird behavior, I was fearing the worst; like the stepper had grenaded (even tho it was stone cold last night) or worse, the TMC2208 had kakked from repetitive overload caused by the binding. Well, at least the troubleshooting session gave me a chance to practice my cold-pull technique. 

Of course, the culprit (as usual) was something much more mundane; the pinion had spun loose on the shaft. Usually this gives you some warning; the screw hitting against the flat of the shaft will hammer like a summitch, and you'll notice it right quick. But not in this case, even though I DID check all the set screws when I assembled the kit.

Turns out that there's a bit of a fault in the geometry of this stepper in this application; with the pinions they chose, there just isn't enough depth on the flat of the shaft to be able to center the pinion on the belt. So, rather than fix the design flaw by choosing a different stepper or pinion, they just tightened the grub-screw against the round of the shaft. Well, the half of it they could hit with the pinion located properly.

So, a little Dremel work got me the flat on that shaft extended ~3mm; reassembled everything and now the X-axis geometry is correct and should stay that way.

Interesting side-track; it took me 3 more tries to actually get a successful start on the print; first one curled at ~3mm progress, so following the conventional wisdom with PLA, I turned the bed heat down. That caused a print fail clusterflop where the part broke loose in one piece and glued itself to the nozzle. Digging the PLA from around the nozzle without ripping the insulation on the heat-block proved quite the job, even with tweezers. 

Finally I noted that the edges (where this print was going down) were actually enough cooler that I could feel the difference; even though I wait a good 10 minutes every time for the glass to come up to temp and stabilize. I had to crank the heat up to 70° to get a successful start; and yes, I have a good 4mm brim on both part and support, because about 60% of the footprint of this thing IS support.

Now just hoping it doesn't start to curl up again... 

mnem
 

[HobGoblyn]

Back to what you say, are you telling me to do that and simply try another print, or should I do that and redo my 16 point mesh levelling after?  I presumed the mesh levelling was to overcome things like this?  Surely if I redo my mesh levelling after raising it slightly I'm going to be in exactly the same position, or am I missing something?

The mesh is ok and there's no need to redo it because it's an offset relative to Z=0, but at Z=0 you've got the bed too low (IOW, your Z=0 isn't at Z=0 (*)) => the first layer is being printed a bit too high / far from the bed.

If there's a "BED Z" in your MOTION menu move the bed up a smidge (I'd try with 0.15mm, a positive value moves it up, a negative value down), if there's no menu option move it up manually with the adjust wheels (1/4..1/3 turn of the wheel should be enough). But if you do it with the wheels be sure to move all the wheels exactly the same amount if not you'll be tilting the bed.

If you do use hair laquer, it's very easy to clean afterwards with plain water and a damp rag, and it always helps adhesion, but there should be no need to use it if the bed is coated ("ultrabase"), as somebody else has pointed out.

(*) At Z=0 the tip of the nozzle should be just touching the bed. Many people have this adjust wrong because after doing a "LEVEL CORNERS" with a sheet of paper you're leaving the bed 0.1mm below Z=0. Correct that by setting "BED Z" to +0.1, or move it up manually with the wheels.

After a ton of tests I  worked out that mine is the opposite, a positive Bed Z causes the print head to be further away from the bed, a negative one causes it to be closer.

I'll do a separate post about my experience with levelling, this post I want to know what setting shows the proper amount of squish please.

From my experiences today, I've worked out that when I know which Bed Z setting shows the correct squish, next time I redo the mesh levelling, I'll reset Bed Z to 0.00, do the meshlevel, then dial in the Bed Z value again.

I havent yet increased the number of mesh points, I will do that tomorrow.

So, did 4 point manual levelling (adjusting wheels), got it to feel exactly the same as yesterday when I did it.  Then I did the meshlevelling (BED Z at 0.00) 

I then did my test print, as you can see it didn't stick (NOTE: had crash at bottom left a few days ago, so ignore where that is blackish on  pics).





I adjusted BED Z to -0.5, this time it stuck







Then at -0.1







Then at 0.15







Then at 0.2







Then at 0.25  (added 3rd photo to compare with 3.0)








Then finally 0.3  (which is too much judging by 3rd photo below)

[HobGoblyn]

Edit: Worked out whats happening, see post 926


About my bed levelling.

Yesterday I manually levelled the bed, didn't need much adjustment, I did the 4 corners as in not to scale pic below





I then did the meshlevelling and ended up with the following.




I retried the mesh levelling a few times during the day and came up with the same (well one or two might have changed by 0.05).


So I was pretty confused when today I thought I would meshlevel again and it came up with the following.




My initial thought was the bed must have moved a lot somehow, so I redid the 4 corner manual levelling , but it was fine. I tried the meshlevelling again, it still came up the same.

Why it went from say  -0.100 yesterday to + 0.300 today, I simply do not know.  But no matter how many times I do it today (with BED Z on 0.00 as it was yesterday) it comes out identical, yet I must have done it 5 times yesterday and they too were all identical, only completely different. Weird.

[mnementh]

            

Mundane everyday useful item print number 74: Sanwa joystick cloverleaf restrictor plate for arcade game console.  *yawwwwnnnn*

Many of the classic 8-bit arcade games (Pac-man, Galaga, etc) don't play right with the default 8-way joystick; they ignore it or worse, go the wrong way when two switch-close actions happen together (diagonal on a 8-way stick). This plate makes the popular Sanwa (or in my case, cheap Chinese clone) joysticks ONLY produce 4-way signal; now Pac-Man is decently playable. Second one for player 2 just popped off the printer. 

IoT Hells yeah!       Joystick Thing on ThingiVerse

mnem
 

[mnementh]

      CReality Release: CR-6 MAX

Oh, poop... CR-6 MAX=CR-6SE inflated to 400x400x400.      I can get that coming instead if I upgrade my pledge by *does a little math* ummm... US$360.

That IS tempting at $699 (supposedly $200 off list of $899)... especially against current prices ~$580 for the CR-10. BUT... They won't start shipping til October.

Yeah... a $320 gamble on being a early adopter is one thing; $700 AND waiting an extra 2 months makes it quite resistible, at least right now.

mnem
*wibble*