3D Printer yet?

[HobGoblyn]

Edit: Worked out whats happening, see post...


About my bed levelling.

Yesterday I manually levelled the bed, didn't need much adjustment, I did the 4 corners as in not to scale pic below

(Attachment Link)



I then did the meshlevelling and ended up with the following.

(Attachment Link)


I retried the mesh levelling a few times during the day and came up with the same (well one or two might have changed by 0.05).


So I was pretty confused when today I thought I would meshlevel again and it came up with the following.

(Attachment Link)


My initial thought was the bed must have moved a lot somehow, so I redid the 4 corner manual levelling , but it was fine. I tried the meshlevelling again, it still came up the same.

Why it went from say  -0.100 yesterday to + 0.300 today, I simply do not know.  But no matter how many times I do it today (with BED Z on 0.00 as it was yesterday) it comes out identical, yet I must have done it 5 times yesterday and they too were all identical, only completely different. Weird.

I've worked out what I'm doing wrong, doh

What I've been doing is going into the touch screen, using the bed levelling to set the 4 corners manually, then going into Marlin and doing the mesh levelling.  Regardless of what I said in my previous post, at some point I must have redone this and moved the wheels.

So today, after yesterdays odd mesh results (all the mesh points being positive instead of the negative values I had the previous day), I checked the 4 corners in Touch screen, way out, two of them took nearly a whole wheel turn.  At this point I realised I must be doing something stupid as there's no way they would vibrate that much (upgraded springs).

I went back into Marlin, then it occurred to me what I had stupidly been doing wrong.

I had been using the 4 corner touch screen manual bed levelling with meshlevelling turned on.    I turned bedlevelling off in Marlin (remembered to store it), went back into the touch screen, and sure enough the 4 corner test was way out and I had to turn the wheels in the opposite direction to level it.

I then went back into Marlin, did the meshleveling, and sure enough they were almost identical (most were identical, a few 0.05 out) to the ones I did Friday, all negative readings.

So whenever I level my bed, I need to do the following.

Set BED Z to 0.00 and store.
Turn bed levelling off and store.
Go into TFT and run 4 corner manual  bed level.
Go into Marlin, run meshlevel and store.
Re enter BED Z value and store.

Then I should be ready to print, finally got it worked out.  If someone could look at my post 922 and say which looks squished right, would be greatly appreciated

Thanks

EDIT:  I notice that sometimes going into Motion/Bed Levelling  on Marlin I have the "Bed Levelling on"  (or off) option, other times it's not there.  I've just gone from TFT to Marlin and it's not there at all. That has me worried that it could be turned off. 

So under Marlin, I've rerun meshlevelling and on completion it now again shows the "Bed levelling on"  option.  I store it.  Restart into Marlin and now there's no Bed Levelling on/off option. weird.

[tom66]

One thing I've really noticed between PETG filaments is how "sticky" some of them can be.

I have been doing a lot of printing with Amazon's PETG and e-DA PETG,  both of these adhere well to my PEI sheet and print quality is good.

But I got some PrimaCreator filament which adheres -so well- to the damn bed every time I try taking parts off I feel like I'm going to rip the PEI.

I wonder why this filament is so different?

[GeorgeOfTheJungle]

After a ton of tests I  worked out that mine is the opposite, a positive Bed Z causes the print head to be further away from the bed, a negative one causes it to be closer.

Yes that's right, my bad, sorry. So BED Z is the Z at which the bed rests after a level corners. Should be (minus) the paper thickness= -0.1mm.

Try this gcode to test your saved mesh. It 1)heats the bed (to 60˚C) and nozzle (to 200˚C), 2)Does a home, 3)turns on ABL and then 4)moves the nozzle from X 40..200 Y 40..200 in a grid 40 mm apart to Z=0.1 so that you can feel the height with a paper. Click to move from a point to the next.

M300 ;BEEP
M104 S130 ;NOZZLE TEMP NO WAIT
M190 S50 ;BED TEMP WAIT
M140 S60 ;BED TEMP NO WAIT
M109 S200 ;NOZZLE TEMP WAIT

G21 ;USE mm
G90 ;ABSOLUTE
G28 ;Home
M420 S1 ;ENABLE ABL
G0 F3000 ;50*60=3000 => 50 mm/s




G0 X40 Y40 Z10
G0 Z0.1
M0 CLICK TO CONTINUE

G0 X80 Y40 Z10
G0 Z0.1
M0 CLICK TO CONTINUE

G0 X120 Y40 Z10
G0 Z0.1
M0 CLICK TO CONTINUE

G0 X160 Y40 Z10
G0 Z0.1
M0 CLICK TO CONTINUE

G0 X200 Y40 Z10
G0 Z0.1
M0 CLICK TO CONTINUE




G0 X40 Y80 Z10
G0 Z0.1
M0 CLICK TO CONTINUE

G0 X80 Y80 Z10
G0 Z0.1
M0 CLICK TO CONTINUE

G0 X120 Y80 Z10
G0 Z0.1
M0 CLICK TO CONTINUE

G0 X160 Y80 Z10
G0 Z0.1
M0 CLICK TO CONTINUE

G0 X200 Y80 Z10
G0 Z0.1
M0 CLICK TO CONTINUE




G0 X40 Y120 Z10
G0 Z0.1
M0 CLICK TO CONTINUE

G0 X80 Y120 Z10
G0 Z0.1
M0 CLICK TO CONTINUE

G0 X120 Y120 Z10
G0 Z0.1
M0 CLICK TO CONTINUE

G0 X160 Y120 Z10
G0 Z0.1
M0 CLICK TO CONTINUE

G0 X200 Y120 Z10
G0 Z0.1
M0 CLICK TO CONTINUE




G0 X40 Y160 Z10
G0 Z0.1
M0 CLICK TO CONTINUE

G0 X80 Y160 Z10
G0 Z0.1
M0 CLICK TO CONTINUE

G0 X120 Y160 Z10
G0 Z0.1
M0 CLICK TO CONTINUE

G0 X160 Y160 Z10
G0 Z0.1
M0 CLICK TO CONTINUE

G0 X200 Y160 Z10
G0 Z0.1
M0 CLICK TO CONTINUE




G0 X40 Y200 Z10
G0 Z0.1
M0 CLICK TO CONTINUE

G0 X80 Y200 Z10
G0 Z0.1
M0 CLICK TO CONTINUE

G0 X120 Y200 Z10
G0 Z0.1
M0 CLICK TO CONTINUE

G0 X160 Y200 Z10
G0 Z0.1
M0 CLICK TO CONTINUE

G0 X200 Y200 Z10
G0 Z0.1
M0 CLICK TO CONTINUE




G0 Z10
M140 S0 ;BED TEMP NO WAIT
M104 S0 ;NOZZLE TEMP NO WAIT
M18 ;DISABLE STEPPERS
M300 ;BEEP

[Monkeh]

Thermal expansion takes up the majority of the gap - do it cold on paper, tweak minutely afterwards to get the layer right. There's no need to mess about with a hot nozzle drooling filament all over the place.

If someone could look at my post 922 and say which looks squished right, would be greatly appreciated

I really can't make anything out in those photos. Low res, out of focus, and no light.

[GeorgeOfTheJungle]

If someone could look at my post 922 and say which looks squished right, would be greatly appreciated

If the top looks round it isn't squished enough. 0.25 looks good to me. But 0.2 maybe too. Try to lift it and choose the one that sticked best to the bed. And remember to clean the bed or it won't stick well.

EDIT:  I notice that sometimes going into Motion/Bed Levelling  on Marlin I have the "Bed Levelling on"  (or off) option, other times it's not there.  I've just gone from TFT to Marlin and it's not there at all. That has me worried that it could be turned off. 

So under Marlin, I've rerun meshlevelling and on completion it now again shows the "Bed levelling on"  option.  I store it.  Restart into Marlin and now there's no Bed Levelling on/off option. weird.

In the printer setup (in Cura it's in Machine settings/Start Gcode) put a

Code: [Select]

G28 ;Home
M420 S1 ;ENABLE ABL
right after the G28 to enable mesh/ABL, because G28 disables it. There's also an option somewhere in config.h to enable ABL automatically with G28.

[GeorgeOfTheJungle]

Thermal expansion takes up the majority of the gap - do it cold on paper, tweak minutely afterwards to get the layer right. There's no need to mess about with a hot nozzle drooling filament all over the place.

The problem with that is that usually there's some solidified filament stuck in the tip of the nozzle.

[Monkeh]

Thermal expansion takes up the majority of the gap - do it cold on paper, tweak minutely afterwards to get the layer right. There's no need to mess about with a hot nozzle drooling filament all over the place.

The problem with that is that usually there's some solidified filament stuck in the point on the nozzle.

Which can be broken off easily. It's not so easy to remove a melted gouge from your print surface.

[GeorgeOfTheJungle]

Which can be broken off easily. It's not so easy to remove a melted gouge from your print surface.

You're supposed to put the paper under the nozzle.

[Monkeh]

Which can be broken off easily. It's not so easy to remove a melted gouge from your print surface.

You're supposed to put the paper under the nozzle.

Which will help not in the least if your non-rigidly-mounted bed has been knocked sufficiently out of position.

I have damaged enough of these things to know better than to hot-probe with such machines, which is why I'm advising against it. Also why every machine I use and will use has a rigid bed and either a non-contact probe or a stowable probe.

[GeorgeOfTheJungle]

To each his own :-)

[mnementh]

Thermal expansion takes up the majority of the gap - do it cold on paper, tweak minutely afterwards to get the layer right. There's no need to mess about with a hot nozzle drooling filament all over the place.

Yup... that's been my process for a while with this printer (since it turns all heaters off when I start the leveling pattern); I use a colored Post-It (the ones that are thick enough to be opaque) and fold just the sticky part over itself. This part I use as a "handle"; slipping the single thickness under the nozzle.

When you can feel drag on the paper, but can still push it back & forth without it buckling, you've got it right. If the paper buckles when you push on it, too tight. Repeat all 4 corners until you get to where you don't have to adjust any corner; this sometimes takes 3 or 4 rounds.

THEN check the center; it will most likely be right on unless you've got a bubbly plastic-coated bed or plate like mine which has gone bumpy; THAT will drive you batty until you peel it off and print right on the glass.

After that, fine-tune while watching it print the brim; usually less than 1/4 turn on any knob to get it laying down pre-fukt.

mnem
 

[beanflying]

I still like the paper option. I always run the bed up to temperature first and also run the nozzle hot, the paper takes away any crud from the tip. Unless you are in a time critical operation manual works fine and you are there for those minutes while the bed heats and becomes stable regardless. The biggest bug with the Enders is not coming with a built in bed leveling routine  Creality 

I also runs a few perimeters and watch them carefully when the prints start and tweak if it look a bit off or even stop it and redo it.

[CatalinaWOW]

Bed leveling problems seem to be serial number dependent, not something that everyone fights.  I have literally not had to level the bed on my Ender 3 this year.  I just plug a file in and it prints.  I did originally have some problems until I discovered that one of the cables touched the adjusting wheel during bed traverses, slowly winding it out.  A little attention to cable routing and tie down solved that.

[mnementh]

Same here... I seldom relevel unless I've been fu**ing with something on the printer; start a print, tweak if necessary while it prints the brim, go on about my bidness.

mnem
*heeding Hypnos' siren call*

[HobGoblyn]

Thermal expansion takes up the majority of the gap - do it cold on paper, tweak minutely afterwards to get the layer right. There's no need to mess about with a hot nozzle drooling filament all over the place.

If someone could look at my post 922 and say which looks squished right, would be greatly appreciated

I really can't make anything out in those photos. Low res, out of focus, and no light.

I half agree, I could have got my DSLR out but there's a max of 5000KB of attachments per post. 

The pics were originally 4032 x 3024 pixels, around 4500KB,  I used snapit so that they could all be uploaded and compared side by side.

I zoomed in on the original before using  snapit to take the 2nd and 3rd pics.

Bearing in mind it was from this type of pic I was told that my first level wasn't squished enough.

I'm looking at them on a 27" monitor, and I also know what they looked like when on the bed, so maybe I can see -0.3 is so squished in the 3rd pic that you can see the  black base through it, only because I know it was when I saws it on the bed.

[HobGoblyn]

EDIT:  I notice that sometimes going into Motion/Bed Levelling  on Marlin I have the "Bed Levelling on"  (or off) option, other times it's not there.  I've just gone from TFT to Marlin and it's not there at all. That has me worried that it could be turned off. 

So under Marlin, I've rerun meshlevelling and on completion it now again shows the "Bed levelling on"  option.  I store it.  Restart into Marlin and now there's no Bed Levelling on/off option. weird.

In the printer setup (in Cura it's in Machine settings/Start Gcode) put a

Code: [Select]

G28 ;Home
M420 S1 ;ENABLE ABL
right after the G28 to enable mesh/ABL, because G28 disables it. There's also an option somewhere in config.h to enable ABL automatically with G28.

Thanks, it is enabled in config.h, which is why I find it odd that it sometimes  there and other  times it isn't. Will add it to Cura anyway.

configuration.h has the following

* - MESH_BED_LEVELING
 *   Probe a grid manually
 *   The result is a mesh, suitable for large or uneven beds. (See BILINEAR.)
 *   For machines without a probe, Mesh Bed Leveling provides a method to perform
 *   leveling in steps so you can manually adjust the Z height at each grid-point.
 *   With an LCD controller the process is guided step-by-step.
 */
//#define AUTO_BED_LEVELING_3POINT
//#define AUTO_BED_LEVELING_LINEAR
//#define AUTO_BED_LEVELING_BILINEAR
//#define AUTO_BED_LEVELING_UBL
#define MESH_BED_LEVELING

/**
 * Normally G28 leaves leveling disabled on completion. Enable
 * this option to have G28 restore the prior leveling state.
 */
#define RESTORE_LEVELING_AFTER_G28

[HobGoblyn]

Bed leveling problems seem to be serial number dependent, not something that everyone fights.  I have literally not had to level the bed on my Ender 3 this year.  I just plug a file in and it prints.  I did originally have some problems until I discovered that one of the cables touched the adjusting wheel during bed traverses, slowly winding it out.  A little attention to cable routing and tie down solved that.

I may well be the same, only had printer a couple of weeks, I'm hoping once it's set up right, it stays that way.  I've just been having problems setting up right in the first place, thanks to this thread, I'm there I think.   First layer not sticking caused me to keep relevelling whereas I now know it was because it wasn't squished enough.

[mnementh]

Thermal expansion takes up the majority of the gap - do it cold on paper, tweak minutely afterwards to get the layer right. There's no need to mess about with a hot nozzle drooling filament all over the place.

If someone could look at my post 922 and say which looks squished right, would be greatly appreciated

I really can't make anything out in those photos. Low res, out of focus, and no light.

I half agree, I could have got my DSLR out but there's a max of 5000KB of attachments per post. 

The pics were originally 4032 x 3024 pixels, around 4500KB,  I used snapit so that they could all be uploaded and compared side by side.

I zoomed in on the original before using  snapit to take the 2nd and 3rd pics.

Bearing in mind it was from this type of pic I was told that my first level wasn't squished enough.

I'm looking at them on a 27" monitor, and I also know what they looked like when on the bed, so maybe I can see -0.3 is so squished in the 3rd pic that you can see the  black base through it, only because I know it was when I saws it on the bed.

This right here is why I still keep my old (how old? It uses Memory Stick Pro...) Sony DSC-H2. The Macro feature on it is simply superb; it takes better pics than most with triple the resolution. It's not JUST the lenses or the sensor; it's how the two are matched, the whole gestalt of the thing.

Even the firmware matters; while you can only fix so much with software (as the current few generations of mostly potato-cam smartphones make so very clear) having fault-tolerant firmware IS important. Working mostly in "snapshot" mode with MACRO mode on, the AF on this thing JUST WORKS... even when shooting through my 3X-5X swingarm lamp/magnifier.   While recent advances in high pixel/low-noise sensors have rendered dinosaurs like the H2 pretty much obsolete for any modern "photographer" use, for everyday use posting a few quick pics on a blog or a forum where filesize is limited, it's perfect.

This "gestalt" approach to my camera (and most of my other tools) is important in a tinkerdwagon's lair... having a convenient camera that I can grab and just "get the shot" without interrupting the workflow is critical; if I can't count on that, I'm usually not going to bother with documenting and sharing.

I have several other cameras; tho I gave up my Rebel DSLR as NCE when it developed terminal bootloop disease a few years ago. Right now I'm flogging a LUMIX DMC-TS-20 bought for a pittance as my everyday snapshooter; waterproof is VERY nice. But the old reliable H2 still lives on my desk/workbench and still gets used pretty much every day.

mnem

[HobGoblyn]

Today has been interesting.

Trying to compile the firmware with 7 points set, it chugged away for about an hour before I stopped it.

In the end I uninstalled PlatformIO, then VSCode, re-installed VSCode.  Then tried to install PlatformIO, but it couldn't find python .........

Anyway I got rid of the python that was installed, installed the latest python,  told PlatformIO where it was and bingo, it compiled perfectly in about 2 mins.

I upgraded the printer and ran the 49 point bed level test.  What was interesting was how different two points next to each other were.

Just ran the same bed level test as yesterday and with Bed Z set to 0.00 it's all nicely squished and sticking fine, so I'm going to leave it alone now

[xrunner]

New bigtreetech TFT fimware available, details at link below. Worked OK for me but as always install at your own risk ... 

https://github.com/bigtreetech/BIGTREETECH-TouchScreenFirmware

[HobGoblyn]

New bigtreetech TFT fimware available, details at link below. Worked OK for me but as always install at your own risk ... 

https://github.com/bigtreetech/BIGTREETECH-TouchScreenFirmware

Just managed to get Octoprint onto my Raspberry pi and move my printing head around with it from my PC   Was about to test/adjust/configure my extruder but I might as well give the new firmware a try before I continue     

[HobGoblyn]

That seemed to work, yay

[mnementh]

Oklay... since we're just controlling these machines via serial anyways, how far away is this whole mess from a workable HC-05/HC-06 module and an app on our phone/tablet?

I'm sure somebody is working on it; who knows where I'd look?

Let me rephrase that... there are oodles of folks with vids on the easy part; hacking the module. Any 1d10t can do that, even me. I'm talking about a reasonably civilized GUI for the host device; maybe with capability for customization that won't break your brain. Does somebody have any decent progress on THAT...?

mnem
moo?

[GeorgeOfTheJungle]

I'm talking about a reasonably civilized GUI for the host device; maybe with capability for customization that won't break your brain. Does somebody have any decent progress on THAT...?

Yes, ESP3D:

https://github.com/luc-github/ESP3D
https://github.com/luc-github/ESP3D-WEBUI

[mnementh]

Yes, ESP3D: https://github.com/luc-github/ESP3D

Ummm... not what I was looking for. The last thing I want is ANOTHER WiFi node on my network, and all the connectivity headaches associated with that.   

Also, not interested in adding another potential soldier for SkyNet, or another cell in somebody's botnet. I disable WiFi on my 2D printers for the same reason.

mnem
Just say "No, thank you."