3D Printer yet?

[Zucca]

Marlin display says fan 100% but the cooling part fan does not spin. 
I hope it is not a (µC) HW problem.

[xrunner]

Marlin display says fan 100% but the cooling part fan does not spin. 
I hope it is not a (µC) HW problem.

Fan no worky ... 

 

[Nominal Animal]

Fan no worky ... 

Fan or fan power pin b0rked?  When testing the fan power pin, do remember to load it with a small power resistor (say 200 ohms) when measuring the voltage.

[mnementh]

Most likely a pin assignment issue in your extruder fan definition and/or layer fan definition; FAN and FAN0 do each have a open-drain FET in the (-) side of the circuit. Schematic sez the MINI E3 has the (+) pin on both connected directly to VBB; I don't see any evidence of a fuse or polyfuse in those power supply circuits.

mnem
 

[xrunner]

Damn you Zucca! All this talk of broken fans came through the internet and zapped mine!

 

[mnementh]

Oh, what's a little metal fatigue between friends...? 




Now you know why I'm so anal aboot doing proper strain reliefs during the initial build; if you don't do it then, it doesn't happen until something like this happens. By then, who knows how many wires are hanging on by a thread... 

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/msg2974438/#msg2974438

mnem
 

[Zucca]

I am sorry, I did not know to have such super powers.
well time to get a better one.

anyhow if I disconnet the cable and apply 24V the fan spins...

Will find out...

[xrunner]

Oh, what's a little metal fatigue between friends...? 

Yep - repetitive motion injury. 

How about me putting a little dab of hot snot there over both wires mnem - whatddya think? 

[mnementh]

Hot snot on a part of the printer which entire raison d'etre is to melt thermoplastic... What could possibly go wrong...? 

No, seriously... once you get it all soldered back together, either make a bit of bracketry out of metal or design & print one up which holds the entire wire bundle fast against the X-Axis/Extruder roller bracket, so none of the wire ends move when the X-axis moves. You don't have to make it as uber as I did mine; I just had some aluminum strip exactly the right size handy.

mnem
 

[xrunner]

Hot snot on a part of the printer which entire raison d'etre is to melt thermoplastic... What could possibly go wrong...? 

mnem
 

No it won't melt there. Here, I'll do it and prove it. 

[mnementh]

Uh huh.... and what if the fan stops working? Where will all the heat from that radiator radiate to...?

   

No, seriously... once you get it all soldered back together, either make a bit of bracketry out of metal or design & print one up which holds the entire wire bundle fast against the X-Axis/Extruder roller bracket, so none of the wire ends move when the X-axis moves. You don't have to make it as uber as I did mine; I just had some aluminum strip exactly the right size handy.

mnem
 

[xrunner]

Uh huh.... and what if the fan stops working? Where will all the heat from that radiator radiate to...?

LOL - if it ever gets hot enough due to a failure to melt a small dab of hot glue on the back of the fan (which wouldn't be of any concern in any case) - I'll have a lot more worries than that. 

But it won't melt there. If it ever does you will be the first I'll report it to.

Repair done. 

[Nominal Animal]

FWIW, I always use (gasket) silicone for those.  Also works to reduce vibrations if the fan touches metal.  The lower the modulus, the better.

[xrunner]

FWIW, I always use (gasket) silicone for those.  Also works to reduce vibrations if the fan touches metal.  The lower the modulus, the better.

These machines can certainly be improved upon that's for sure. 

Like the fan wires. I'd have used silicone insulated highly flexible wires for the fans. I have some of that kind of wire, but right now I'm not going to re-run wiring. I have some things to print ...

[Zucca]

There is so much chinesium here.... but my friends, we will win.
My dual Z cnc plate is coming....

now back to that stupid fan

[Zucca]

Okay, I swapped in FW the two pins FAN1 and FAN0 and now the colling fan is working but the other one is not.
So it is a Firmware problem not an hardware one.

Maybe since I hack a fan more with the DCDC to control the controller fan, Marlin knows my board can support only two fans and somehow drop the first fan....
Will investigate.

[mnementh]

Uh huh.... and what if the fan stops working? Where will all the heat from that radiator radiate to...?

LOL - if it ever gets hot enough due to a failure to melt a small dab of hot glue on the back of the fan (which wouldn't be of any concern in any case) - I'll have a lot more worries than that. 

But it won't melt there. If it ever does you will be the first I'll report it to.

Repair done. 

I guess my point was that there are so any easily broken wires right there; NOT putting a proper strain relief on the hotend is just inviting Murphy to make an example of you.

Next time it may be something you can't just solder together; like the thermistor or the hot wire to the heater cartridge. That's always fun when it gets loose near a similarly exposed wire connected to that big open-sink FET. 

Bottom line is sure, I'm playing up the worst case scenario for the sake of argument. Even so... everything I suggested is a real possibility.

mnem
"Bad crispy... BAD!!!" ~The Violator

[Zucca]

Maybe since I hack a fan more with the DCDC to control the controller fan, Marlin knows my board can support only two fans and somehow drop the first fan....
Will investigate.

Took me only 5 hours but I won!

This saved my ass!

Basically:

Code: [Select]

#define USE_CONTROLLER_FAN
#if ENABLED(USE_CONTROLLER_FAN)
  #define FAN2_PIN PC12                  // Increase number of fans in Marlin // Zuk
  #define CONTROLLER_FAN_PIN FAN2_PIN    // Set a custom pin for the controller fan // Zuk use pin PWR-DET
  //#define CONTROLLER_FAN_USE_Z_ONLY    // With this option only the Z axis is considered
  //#define CONTROLLER_FAN_IGNORE_Z      // Ignore Z stepper. Useful when stepper timeout is disabled.
  #define CONTROLLERFAN_SPEED_MIN      0 // (0-255) Minimum speed. (If set below this value the fan is turned off.)
  #define CONTROLLERFAN_SPEED_ACTIVE   0 // (0-255) Active speed, used when any motor is enabled // Zuk FAN on LOW
  #define CONTROLLERFAN_SPEED_IDLE   255 // (0-255) Idle speed, used when motors are disabled // Zuk FAN off HIGH
  #define CONTROLLERFAN_IDLE_TIME     60 // (seconds) Extra time to keep the fan running after disabling motors
  //#define CONTROLLER_FAN_EDITABLE      // Enable M710 configurable settings
  #if ENABLED(CONTROLLER_FAN_EDITABLE)
    #define CONTROLLER_FAN_MENU          // Enable the Controller Fan submenu
  #endif
#endif

Marlin counts how many fans you have by counting the FANx_PIN used... since I had only FAN_PIN and FAN1_PIN defined, it was not playing well with 3 fans.
My balls ... yes you know.

[mnementh]

Yup. Been dere, dunnat.

It's a bit of a dick aboot adding thermistors when you don't have a extra extruder too... the easiest way is to just define it as CHAMBER TEMP.

EDIT FOR THOSE PLAYING ALONG AT HOME: Be mindful that if you want to control fan speed, you have to find a free pin that can do PWM output. If just ON/OFF, pretty much any multi I/O pin can be assigned.

mnem
Well played! 

[Brumby]

Bottom line is sure, I'm playing up the worst case scenario for the sake of argument. Even so... everything I suggested is a real possibility.

Mnem's contributions as "devil's advocate" are well appreciated .... so much so that I've heard Lucifer has brought in his lawyers for preparation of a "cease and desist" order, 'cause Mnem is making him nervous.

[xrunner]

Even so... everything I suggested is a real possibility.

So is being struck by a meteorite ...

From the anti-devil's advocate 

[mnementh]

I can't believe I actually have to argue this...  strain-reliefs on a thing made of moving wires is nothing less an obvious necessity, FFS.

We all know the ol' tinkerdwagon can agitate with the best of 'em... and I do love me a joke. But these things are defined as "hobbyist" and "experimental prototyping" for a reason; they simply are not inherently safe.

The technology on the whole is half-finished at best; every last component of the things has a dozen ways it can fail spectacularly, and every last part of the thing is full of fire, just looking for a place to get out. Even the best-known names have a history of shit burning up; Hell, there are two safety advisories for things than can catch fire on my brand-new CR6-SE, and that's aboot as close to turnkey as you're going to get in this class of printer.

We STILL haven't even established a mandatory thermal runaway protocol; manufacturers are still today shipping units with it disabled in firmware, and lets be frank... a little software is hardly a proper replacement for at least a single thermal fuse, which is required even on a $8 hairdryer.

So please, don't be so flippant... it encourages a careless attitude in those playing along at home, and the odds of a printer catching fire are a helluva lot higher than being struck by a meteorite, or lightning, or a car, or even getting free money from the ATM.

Cheers,

mnem

[mnementh]

FWIW, I always use (gasket) silicone for those.  Also works to reduce vibrations if the fan touches metal.  The lower the modulus, the better.

Yup. I was aboot to suggest that as a better choice.

If you have 2 smooth clean surfaces with ~1cm² covalent area or more, clear silicone has remarkable holding strength and heat resistance.  I use ordinary household 100% clear silicone sealant/caulking for a host of applications up to 200°C or so... some can be used up to 250°C, and it doesn't have to be any of that special "Hi-Temp" stuff that costs a fortune.

mnem
It pays to read the label.

[xrunner]

I can't believe I actually have to argue this...  strain-reliefs on a thing made of moving wires is nothing less an obvious necessity, FFS.

Sorry but the repair I made is sufficient and will likely not fail again. There is no need for more strain relief in the area at this time. The other wires show no signs of any wear. The reason this wire broke is due to insufficient length from the last repair - not because of insufficient strain relief. The strain relief I have is more than adequate.

I would like to quote from the old TV show Kung Fu, when Master Po was teaching Caine another lesson, his advice -

"Accept the ways of others, respect first your own"

Good evening. 

[mnementh]

I can't believe I actually have to argue this...  strain-reliefs on a thing made of moving wires is nothing less an obvious necessity, FFS.

Sorry but the repair I made is sufficient and will likely not fail again. There is no need for more strain relief in the area at this time. The other wires show no signs of any wear. The reason this wire broke is due to insufficient length from the last repair - not because of insufficient strain relief. The strain relief I have is more than adequate.

I would like to quote from the old TV show Kung Fu, when Master Po was teaching Caine another lesson, his advice -

"Accept the ways of others, respect first your own"

Good evening. 

So you do have some form of strain relief? Why are we having this discussion then? You already know it is important.

mnem
*toddles off to ded*