Proof that software as service/cloud based, will never work for long term ...

[SiliconWizard]

In case your cloud service is too hot ...
Google, Oracle cloud servers wilt in UK heatwave, take down websites (https://www.theregister.com/2022/07/19/google_oracle_cloud/)

Ahah, and it's "only" 40°C... just imagine if things get slightly worse. Does give confidence right?

[PlainName]

Things here just aren't designed for a climate you'd normally find in, say, southern Spain. What would be the point when these temperatures just don't occur here?

Similarly, a few inches of snow can bring the place to a halt because it's not the Arctic Circle so no-one invests in snow chains or owt.

OTOH, we do temperate climate very well

[SiliconWizard]

What can I say, I'm not the one defining the current climate in the northern hemisphere. But calling it "temperate" may just be a fuzzy souvenir within a couple decades.

[PlainName]

Once the Gulf Strean goes AWOL, and it is well on the way to that, we are stuffed. Gonna be global freezing so far as we're concerned.

[JPortici]

What can I say, I'm not the one defining the current climate in the northern hemisphere. But calling it "temperate" may just be a fuzzy souvenir within a couple decades.

I'm pretty sure north italy is already a tropical region Hot, 100% humidity all the time and when/if it rains there is always a hail storm in which all the gods fall from the sky doing a body slam

[SilverSolder]

Once the Gulf Strean goes AWOL, and it is well on the way to that, we are stuffed. Gonna be global freezing so far as we're concerned.

The Gulf Stream will be re-released on a subscription basis! 

[madires]

Amazon Drive shuts down: https://www.amazon.com/b/?node=23943055011

[themadhippy]

Amazon Drive shuts down

And just after they announce a price hike for prime,pay more - get less

[Marco]

Things here just aren't designed for a climate you'd normally find in, say, southern Spain. What would be the point when these temperatures just don't occur here?

Why not? The days of condenser/evaporator air conditioned server rooms should be behind us, just let water tower cool the server room down as far as it can with water to air heat exchange and leave the rest to CPU throttling.

40 degrees in the server room? Wear shorts. The electronics shouldn't care. It doesn't make sense to try to keep server room temperatures to some arbitrary environmental temperature 60 degrees removed from what the silicon can actually operate at. It will work fine with a 50 degree difference too, 10 degree increase in environmental temperature only makes a small difference to the power the CPU cooler can dissipate.

[SiliconWizard]

Amazon Drive shuts down: https://www.amazon.com/b/?node=23943055011

Who would have thought!

Those shutdowns may push people to get back to at least keeping a local backup of their data.
Then they buy external drives/NAS/... and back up their data in there.

Then they wake up in 5 years and realize that their local storage devices are actually subscription-based too, and that they won't be able to retrieve their local data unless they hold a valid subscription.
 

[Bobson]

The electronics shouldn't care. It doesn't make sense to try to keep server room temperatures to some arbitrary environmental temperature 60 degrees removed from what the silicon can actually operate at.

Not all electronics, PSUs and SSDs are very prone to overheat, so do mechanical hard drives.

[PlainName]

Sage is the latest one to jump on the subscribe-or-bust bandwagon. Their excuse: TLS can't be upgraded to 1.2 on the perpetual license (which may have been sold only a year or so ago but, hey, shit happens and it's a short lifetime).

https://forums.theregister.com/forum/all/2022/08/01/sage_perpetual_licensing_dispute/

Earlier this month, The Register revealed Sage was advising customers with small business software Sage 50 Accounts and Sage 50cloud Accounts v26.2 (published 2020) or below to move to subscription software because these packages use Transport Layer Security 1.0 and 1.1 – dated versions of the security protocol.

Sage is not offering customers the ability to patch or upgrade their software on a perpetual license. Those who have not moved to a subscription license by 30 September will lose access to their software and their data, according to a statement.

[Marco]

Not all electronics, PSUs and SSDs are very prone to overheat, so do mechanical hard drives.

Electrolytics and hard drives will fail a little faster at 40C ambient, but it's just going to take the MTBF from more years to less years. Not instant failure. SSDs run hot, just like CPUs. A 10 degree increase in ambient is only a fractional decrease in cooling capacity.

Take the cooler of outside/inside ambient air, cool it with cooling towers, pump it in, pump out inside air if it's warmer than ambient. That's all what's needed for a modern datacenter. If you need compressor/evaporator cooling you're doing it wrong. Hardware is too cheap and electricity too expensive. As usual most of IT keeps doing it wrong, only the hyperscalers do it right.

[MrMobodies]

Earlier this month, The Register revealed Sage was advising customers with small business software Sage 50 Accounts and Sage 50cloud Accounts v26.2 (published 2020) or below to move to subscription software because these packages use Transport Layer Security 1.0 and 1.1  – dated versions of the security protocol.

Sounds like a very LAME excuse to me.

However, developers on a separate Sage platform, the cloud-based Intacct, were told in March 2018 to "Ensure your application is configured to negotiate connections using TLS 1.2 or higher.

So they let it happen and bring up that excuse.

It doesn't support this and that so you will pay monthly for it to have the "transport layer".
Bullsh*t:

Users of the affected version of Sage 50 Accounts get a pop-up dialog box telling them to upgrade to 26.3 or 27, but when they try to download the software, only subscription options are available.

I heard that is what they call "pulling a fast one".
Sounds to me like an insult.

I remembered about 5 years ago working somewhere that used Sage accounts where Sage use to email us the program updates.

Meanwhile, The Register understands that customers have been offered refunds on recently purchased upgrade packages , a refund of time remaining on the 15-year perpetual license when they move to the subscription model, and a 12 months free subscription.

Maybe it is time they find an alternative perpetual platform.

https://uk.trustpilot.com/review/sage.com?page=3&stars=1
Page 3

Is this the way a Compnay should behave?
I bouth a copy of Stand-alone Sage50 a few years ago, but have received an email today letting me know that later this year I will be unable to log in to my Software unless I upgrade to a newer Cloud based version and start paying a monthly fee. I certainly feel abused by this attitude, and if Sage continue down this route to exploit at least me, if not many other customer's, which I consider to be very shapr practice, I will be using an alternative supplier. I would recommned considerbale caution before buying this package.

So they are not even letting them use the perpetual standalone version past that point for archival purposes?

I thought you could when I last used it to setup and test some printers and I think I was trying to change the path where I saw the data files from it  being saved in the wrong place which was the main c:\. I didn't see any login, it just loaded up and that was it. Maybe things have changed since them.

Just found this:
https://www.sagecity.com/ca/sage_50_accounting_ca/b/sage_50_ca_supporthub_blog/posts/a-sage-50cloud-subscription-vs-perpetual-license-what-s-the-difference

With/Without Service Plan
When you buy a Sage 50 box from retail and install it on a machine, it is a perpetual license, which means you can always use basic accounting functionalities, like posting a general journal entry.

Sage 50 licenses can either be subscription or perpetual. With a non-subscription service plan (like a payroll-only plan, where you get access to the module), you normally pay one time to get entitled for a period of time. After the service plan expires, if you don't renew it, the perpetual user license will continue to allow you access to basic accounting functionalities in the software which do not require an active service plan.

However, if eventually you want to use features that can be accessed only if entitled, such as Remote Data Access, then you'll need to acquire a service plan which entitles access to this feature.

So they still have the basic functionalities and the above was not correct or more like a threat to "upgrade" to their "cloud".




https://www.accountingweb.co.uk/any-answers/sage-50-cloud-wont-work-unless-you-update?page=1

28th Jan 2022
Sage 50 Cloud - won't work unless you update??

Hi

My Sage 50 (* now called Sage 50 Cloud) is running a warning banner that I won't be able to access my software unless I update to the latest version.

I purchased 5 company sage licences in 2015 - at a time when they were outright purchases, no support needed, no monthly fee.  When I purchased the licenses I was led to believe they were perpetual licences, but the small print says they are for 15 years - but I accepted that, fine.  The software works fine, it hasn't been updated, but I've used Sage long enough to know how to configure the VAT rates etc.

Now Sage are saying if I don't update, I will loose the software. That's like buying a car, and 5 years later, the dealer says, no we've reverted you to lease hire or you can't keep the car.

I can't be the only one with this problem,

* I am not sure whether an update was slipped over at some point to migrate to their "cloud" version.

If not it sounds to me like a threat or if they can do it I believe it could be through the license/activation which would defeat the purpose of what that was brought on.

Not looking good for Sage and its perpetual customers.

[madires]

When you manage 140k payment terminals via a cloud service: Hackers stole passwords for accessing 140,000 payment terminals (https://techcrunch.com/2022/08/01/wiseasy-android-payment-passwords/).

[Miyuki]

Not all electronics, PSUs and SSDs are very prone to overheat, so do mechanical hard drives.

Electrolytics and hard drives will fail a little faster at 40C ambient, but it's just going to take the MTBF from more years to less years. Not instant failure. SSDs run hot, just like CPUs. A 10 degree increase in ambient is only a fractional decrease in cooling capacity.

Take the cooler of outside/inside ambient air, cool it with cooling towers, pump it in, pump out inside air if it's warmer than ambient. That's all what's needed for a modern datacenter. If you need compressor/evaporator cooling you're doing it wrong. Hardware is too cheap and electricity too expensive. As usual most of IT keeps doing it wrong, only the hyperscalers do it right.

Most servers have 10°C - 35°C range
And you will experience a significantly shortened lifespan when reaching that 35°C
Fans will ramp to the max, so also significant reliability issues and increased power consumption (fans at full power can take up to 25% of power in 1U system)
The cooling budget is low in most servers as you need them to be dense.
Look for example at the capacitors: "lifetime doubles for each 10°C"
Hard drives have also a relatively narrow window of 25°C to 40°C (actual HDD temperature, so ambient has to be colder) maximal reliability

[SilverSolder]

Sage is the latest one to jump on the subscribe-or-bust bandwagon. Their excuse: TLS can't be upgraded to 1.2 on the perpetual license (which may have been sold only a year or so ago but, hey, shit happens and it's a short lifetime).

https://forums.theregister.com/forum/all/2022/08/01/sage_perpetual_licensing_dispute/

Earlier this month, The Register revealed Sage was advising customers with small business software Sage 50 Accounts and Sage 50cloud Accounts v26.2 (published 2020) or below to move to subscription software because these packages use Transport Layer Security 1.0 and 1.1 – dated versions of the security protocol.

Sage is not offering customers the ability to patch or upgrade their software on a perpetual license. Those who have not moved to a subscription license by 30 September will lose access to their software and their data, according to a statement.

For basic accounting, what more do you need than MS Access + Excel anyway...  (perpetual versions, of course)

[tom66]

Not to mention, if you have an SLA of 99.99...% uptime, you really can't afford more server failures than single digits per month, or you start needing more redundancy and failover capacity which adds cost ... and heat ... to the building.

Air conditioning for datacenters makes sense.  But instead of cooling the air directly, I wonder if there is anyone cooling the servers directly, with liquid cooling to each unit.  I suspect the cost of doing so is excessive compared to the benefits.

[PlainName]

For basic accounting, what more do you need than MS Access + Excel anyway...  (perpetual versions, of course)

Depends what you mean by 'basic'. I imagine basic company accounts are rather more onerous than basic personal accounts. Plus you don't need to understand accountancy so deeply in order to program/create appropriate tools before even thinking of entering transactions.

[Nominal Animal]

In climates where the ambient temperature is below 10°C for significant periods, and office buildings need central heating, it would make a lot of sense to integrate the server hall into the central heating system, so that waste heat from the servers is used to heat the rest of the building.

This requires both local servers, and architects and engineers that understand and care, though.  So it is a no go, usually.

[themadhippy]

For basic accounting, what more do you need than MS Access + Excel anyway

Nothing,and is how i run my business accounts, but in the  uk  that aint good enough if you want to be vat registered.

[Miyuki]

Not to mention, if you have an SLA of 99.99...% uptime, you really can't afford more server failures than single digits per month, or you start needing more redundancy and failover capacity which adds cost ... and heat ... to the building.

Air conditioning for datacenters makes sense.  But instead of cooling the air directly, I wonder if there is anyone cooling the servers directly, with liquid cooling to each unit.  I suspect the cost of doing so is excessive compared to the benefits.

There are some attempts to liquid-cooled servers or liquid-air heat exchangers in a closed rack, to not cool the whole room, but just servers directly.
Also some oil immersed cooling

Everything have drawbacks in real applications
Liquid cooling need huge amount of quick connect hoses, so plenty of points of failure and no standardization, so you will be vendor lock, plus how to cool passive components like those capacitors and inductors on boards
Per rack heat exchanger looks doable, but still involves complicated plumbing and issues with like the hydraulic balance of that
Immersion in oil brings complicated maintenance and in case of conductive contamination, you will kill all the servers

When you are in an industry where reliability is a concern you do not want to implement untested technologies

[madires]

In climates where the ambient temperature is below 10°C for significant periods, and office buildings need central heating, it would make a lot of sense to integrate the server hall into the central heating system, so that waste heat from the servers is used to heat the rest of the building.

Some data centers/carrier hotels do that already for 20+ years, and not just in cold regions. There are also a few supporting district heating systems.

[SiliconWizard]

Ha! Being able to "capture" heat when the weather is hot, "store" it in some way, and release it when it's cold would be a major achievement.

In many countries these days (even in temperate climates now), summers can be extremely hot and winters still pretty cold.
Having to spend huge amounts of energy to cool down, then huge amounts to heat up, is a real waste.

I don't have any miracle technology in store to do that efficiently, though.

[SilverSolder]

Ha! Being able to "capture" heat when the weather is hot, "store" it in some way, and release it when it's cold would be a major achievement.

In many countries these days (even in temperate climates now), summers can be extremely hot and winters still pretty cold.
Having to spend huge amounts of energy to cool down, then huge amounts to heat up, is a real waste.

I don't have any miracle technology in store to do that efficiently, though.

Large bodies of water do this very well.  Too bad the Gulf Stream has already been invented!