REVIEW - Owon SDS7102 - A look at the SDS series from Owon

[marmad]

In my old tek workhorse it display 8 div and if I remember right (not so exactly) it show something like 200 ADC values on the screen. So signal can go maximum 56 over screen border.

Same as the Rigol DS2000s (200 bits -> 10 divs @ 400pixels), although strangely, the DS4000s map the entire 256 bits to the display (I'm wondering if the change is related to the DS2000's extra 500uV range?). I have mixed-feelings about this practice - on one hand, it gives you a little headroom when making measurements, etc - but otoh, you sacrifice vertical resolution.

[kuson]

CURRENT SDS7102 ISSUES
Akis, thanks for the recap on the "Issues".

OWON REALITY "SHOW OF QUALITY"
rf-loop, I must admit this is the first time in my life I'm experiencing "National Geographic style  Reality Show -- from customer review (marmad)+  feedbacks(everyone)  + replies (you, etc) +  to factory floor and back!"  I think it really gives customers/ potential customer a very good feel and trust in  the Owon brand that -- there is a listening channel with capable technical support to get customers through problems. And it looks like if alot of things discussed were implemented, Owon would have a very strong and impressed group of people ready to say good things for the company. I really want to see a great Finale to the Show! (I just arrived upon just entering into the electronics arena).

Having been in the IT industry for some time, I really think Owon should take their time to stress test the new board so that old issues do not resurface and every bit of  'critical items' plus 'inexpensive and easy to do' that address the hardware root cause are certainly done right before shipment (as rf-loop said maybe up to 1 or 2 months).  Maybe then 'practical firmware features' can come out later.


Marmad, thanks for starting the review. I (and most certainly those newbies out there) never knew Owon before and because of your review I know the company -- I hope Owon sends you free oscilloscopes for life! I have a feel you have good inputs and if Owon were smart theyd send you stuff to test :>   

Marmad, how's the Rigol 2072?  Do you have a link for further reviews/ how its going, is 70Mhz good enough for the long term/etc?  I planned to do what you had said - use the Owon first and if it gets serious, to get more powerful stuff later (either Owon or others)... However, I'm not sure how I can start learning electronics WITHOUT an oscilloscope (if SDS7102 will be ready in a Month or Two);   Is there something I can start by using the audio port of a PC I can do while waiting?

Thanks again guys :>

[marmad]

Marmad, thanks for starting the review. I (and most certainly those newbies out there) never knew Owon before and because of your review I know the company -- I hope Owon sends you free oscilloscopes for life! I have a feel you have good inputs and if Owon were smart theyd send you stuff to test :>

@kuson - Your welcome - and thanks for the show of support. But I think rf-loop would disagree about whether I should get free stuff from Owon    As you might know, I don't own an Owon at the moment, although if I had extra money for a second inexpensive DSO, I'd probably get an SDS7102 to have something that was battery-operated (with VGA out) for the occasional times when that would really be handy. But most of your gratitude should be directed at rf-loop for his tireless support of the Owon users here - many of whom are not even customers of his. I know he sells the DSOs, but he has gone above and beyond what was required in helping people.

Marmad, how's the Rigol 2072?  Do you have a link for further reviews/ how its going, is 70Mhz good enough for the long term/etc?  I planned to do what you had said - use the Owon first and if it gets serious, to get more powerful stuff later (either Owon or others)... However, I'm not sure how I can start learning electronics WITHOUT an oscilloscope (if SDS7102 will be ready in a Month or Two);   Is there something I can start by using the audio port of a PC I can do while waiting?

I'm still enjoying the Rigol very much - but it's not without it's problems (biggest for me is the inability to read sample memory reliably from the PC) - most of which could be fixed with a firmware update (but will they?) - which, typically, is about 3 or 4 months overdue from Rigol. OTOH, bugs in the current firmware allow you to keep the expensive trial options continuously -  so perhaps it's good they're late    I don't make a huge amount of money so it was rather painful to buy it - but if you want a DSO with a fast enough update for intensity grading (which is really handy), I think it's still the best bargain (although the new GW-Intek 2000 series is a contender). As far as the 70MHz goes - well, I'll just say that, like older Rigols, they have the ability to reach beyond their "limits"  I don't know if you saw the review here, but the same post (at the bottom) also lists all of the current bugs the users at EEVBlog have discovered in the current version of firmware. I've also been working on software utilities for the Rigol, which are posted in this thread.

Edit: BTW, rf-loop should be able to keep you informed about when Owon may resolve the current issues - and it would be good to buy.

[Hydrawerk]

GDS-2000A has some minor bugs, too. https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/gds-2000a-new-economic-oscilloscope-by-gw-instek-comes-to-market/

[bill2010]

CURRENT SDS7102 ISSUES
Akis, thanks for the recap on the "Issues".

OWON REALITY "SHOW OF QUALITY"
rf-loop, I must admit this is the first time in my life I'm experiencing "National Geographic style  Reality Show -- from customer review (marmad)+  feedbacks(everyone)  + replies (you, etc) +  to factory floor and back!"  I think it really gives customers/ potential customer a very good feel and trust in  the Owon brand that -- there is a listening channel with capable technical support to get customers through problems. And it looks like if alot of things discussed were implemented, Owon would have a very strong and impressed group of people ready to say good things for the company. I really want to see a great Finale to the Show! (I just arrived upon just entering into the electronics arena).

Having been in the IT industry for some time, I really think Owon should take their time to stress test the new board so that old issues do not resurface and every bit of  'critical items' plus 'inexpensive and easy to do' that address the hardware root cause are certainly done right before shipment (as rf-loop said maybe up to 1 or 2 months).  Maybe then 'practical firmware features' can come out later.


Marmad, thanks for starting the review. I (and most certainly those newbies out there) never knew Owon before and because of your review I know the company -- I hope Owon sends you free oscilloscopes for life! I have a feel you have good inputs and if Owon were smart theyd send you stuff to test :>   

Marmad, how's the Rigol 2072?  Do you have a link for further reviews/ how its going, is 70Mhz good enough for the long term/etc?  I planned to do what you had said - use the Owon first and if it gets serious, to get more powerful stuff later (either Owon or others)... However, I'm not sure how I can start learning electronics WITHOUT an oscilloscope (if SDS7102 will be ready in a Month or Two);   Is there something I can start by using the audio port of a PC I can do while waiting?

Thanks again guys :>

I can't speak for the other Owon SDS owners, but I won't have a "warm and fuzzy" feeling for Owon until I see an official acknowledgement of the ground noise issue and an offer to fix the scopes under warranty. It may be a "cheap" scope, but it wasn't free and I do expect a certain degree of engineering to go into a product being sold to engineers. Not being able to measure low level signals with the supplied probes is not acceptable - I don't care how cheap the instrument is. We can debate usability issues, fan noise, durability, etc. but we are talking about the basic ability to meet specs and serve the fundamental purpose the instrument was designed for. If they don't repair these then they can pretty much kiss their reputation goodbye because the Internet never forgets and real businesses will stay away from a supplier that does not stand by their products - especially test & measurement equipment.

[mzzj]

I can't speak for the other Owon SDS owners, but I won't have a "warm and fuzzy" feeling for Owon until I see an official acknowledgement of the ground noise issue and an offer to fix the scopes under warranty.

I would not bet on warranty repair either. More likely strategy is to sweep the case under carpet and hope that everyone forget...

[marmad]

I can't speak for the other Owon SDS owners, but I won't have a "warm and fuzzy" feeling for Owon until I see an official acknowledgement of the ground noise issue and an offer to fix the scopes under warranty.

I would not bet on warranty repair either. More likely strategy is to sweep the case under carpet and hope that everyone forget...

Well, I'm not sure it's fair to say that at this point - as far as I know, Owon has been pretty responsive in the past about resolving technical problems with the SDS line to their customers' satisfaction. But an official acknowledgement? I had to burst out laughing at that one! I'm really not trying to insult you here, but I'm guessing you haven't had much experience with Chinese companies.

[Hydrawerk]

Well, SDS series is not a new product, it is sold from 2011. I would expect less problems, then it has. 

[marmad]

Well, SDS series is not a new product, it is sold from 2011. I would expect less problems, then it has. 

But many products that have been on the market for awhile occassionally suffer from new, unforeseen problems caused by design changes or manufacturing defects. That's why some companies have 'recall's of items (cars, laptops, food items, etc, etc) - because some new problem has arisen in an often older product.

[purpose]

I've just picked up an SDS7102v and would like to thank you all for the beta testing before I parted with the folding stuff.

Cheers lads.

[chromesphere]

I ordered the owon sds6062 decided to "roll the dice" with it.  Still not sure if it suffers from the same problem, but when i get it (couple of weeks) ill let you guys know if its got the same issue as the 7102.  I hope not

[marmad]

I ordered the owon sds6062 decided to "roll the dice" with it.  Still not sure if it suffers from the same problem, but when i get it (couple of weeks) ill let you guys know if its got the same issue as the 7102.  I hope not

Don't you have any companies in Australia like Batronix - that offer a trial period? I bought the Rigol DS1052E from them - then returned it when I wasn't happy with it. It just cost me the €12 to ship it back to them.

[chromesphere]

Maybe there is, but none that i know of marmad.

[marmad]

Maybe there is, but none that i know of marmad.

Well I noticed that in the thread that you started,  hammil advised you:

Buy it from a reputable dealer, communicating with them the fact that if you do get this issue, you'll want to get a working replacement or refund.

And this was very good advice. If you discussed it with the dealer beforehand, it would be easy to return (or expect a replacement) after trying it. It may have required spending a little more (for a reputable dealer) - but in this case, IMO,  it would have been worth the peace of mind.

[chromesphere]

Good advice, but alas it was from a non-reputable dealer (not sure there are any in oz that sell the 6062?) and i forgot to mention the issue when i bought it!  Oh well, lets wait and see if it has the issue first.

[bill2010]

I can't speak for the other Owon SDS owners, but I won't have a "warm and fuzzy" feeling for Owon until I see an official acknowledgement of the ground noise issue and an offer to fix the scopes under warranty.

I would not bet on warranty repair either. More likely strategy is to sweep the case under carpet and hope that everyone forget...

Well, I'm not sure it's fair to say that at this point - as far as I know, Owon has been pretty responsive in the past about resolving technical problems with the SDS line to their customers' satisfaction. But an official acknowledgement? I had to burst out laughing at that one! I'm really not trying to insult you here, but I'm guessing you haven't had much experience with Chinese companies.

No offense taken - I haven't had much experience with Chinese manufacturers, but I am learning rapidly. I find this whole affair to be an interesting learning experience. I'll be pretty unhappy if they don't offer a solution to current owners, but I'll just move on and never buy from or recommend them again.  I find the total lack of QC or product testing to be pretty amusing since those are the worst corners to cut if you are trying to break into a new segment of the test and measurement market.

[delfinom]

So I just got an Odon SDS7102 with version 2.8.3 firmware, it has the 100mV GND noise on both channel 1 and 2 but so far that hasn't bothered me as I will probably never need to measure signals anywhere less than a volt for my applications. The only thing I can't figure out is why the damn thing just hangs when I attempt to capture the screen as a image on a flash drive. I can disconnect the flash drive and it'll go back to normal but looking at what it ends up writing on the drive, it's just a 0KB file. I can leave it sitting for more than necessary like 5 minutes and it won't save anything, it just sits there frozen.

[EV]

The only thing I can't figure out is why the damn thing just hangs when I attempt to capture the screen as a image on a flash drive.

Is the drive formatted to FAT-32?

[AndrejaKo]

Also check cluster size on the drive. If I remember correctly, this scope needs 4 KiB clusters (allocation size 4096 on Windows format options) to work. If the drive is large, it may use bigger clusters by default which can cause described problems.

[marmad]

No offense taken - I haven't had much experience with Chinese manufacturers, but I am learning rapidly. I find this whole affair to be an interesting learning experience. I'll be pretty unhappy if they don't offer a solution to current owners, but I'll just move on and never buy from or recommend them again.  I find the total lack of QC or product testing to be pretty amusing since those are the worst corners to cut if you are trying to break into a new segment of the test and measurement market.

To be fair to Owon, I doubt there's a company on the planet that wants to publicly acknowledge mistakes. But the Chinese in particular seem to feel the need to be reticent - or to redefine a mistake as a 'misinterpreted choice'. Anyway, I hope you and the rest of the owners stuck with this problem will get some resolution from Owon.

But, as a sidebar, It is interesting to note what seems to be happening in the DSO market over the last two years - beginning with the Agilent X series. Before then it seemed that to make the step from a low-end DSO to one with much better signal capabilities and more advanced features - required a much bigger outlay of money. But now it appears that this gap is shrinking faster than ever, and the difference in quality one gets at each new price point begins to get much higher. It will be interesting to see how this all plays out in the next few years.

[akis]

So I just got an Odon SDS7102 with version 2.8.3 firmware, it has the 100mV GND noise on both channel 1 and 2 but so far that hasn't bothered me as I will probably never need to measure signals anywhere less than a volt for my applications. The only thing I can't figure out is why the damn thing just hangs when I attempt to capture the screen as a image on a flash drive. I can disconnect the flash drive and it'll go back to normal but looking at what it ends up writing on the drive, it's just a 0KB file. I can leave it sitting for more than necessary like 5 minutes and it won't save anything, it just sits there frozen.

Use a smaller size USB drive, it cannot handle the big ones. yet another bug

[delfinom]

So I just got an Odon SDS7102 with version 2.8.3 firmware, it has the 100mV GND noise on both channel 1 and 2 but so far that hasn't bothered me as I will probably never need to measure signals anywhere less than a volt for my applications. The only thing I can't figure out is why the damn thing just hangs when I attempt to capture the screen as a image on a flash drive. I can disconnect the flash drive and it'll go back to normal but looking at what it ends up writing on the drive, it's just a 0KB file. I can leave it sitting for more than necessary like 5 minutes and it won't save anything, it just sits there frozen.

Use a smaller size USB drive, it cannot handle the big ones. yet another bug

It's a miniature 16GB drive in a solid metal cast body which I use because shitty plastic ones always fall apart on me. If the scope cannot handle 16GB drives then this is truely a deal breaker to me.

[akis]

Have you tried the other suggestion, stick the USB drive into your PC and format it with FAT32 and 4KB Allocation Unit Size. Maybe this will work.

[rf-loop]

It's a miniature 16GB drive in a solid metal cast body which I use because shitty plastic ones always fall apart on me. If the scope cannot handle 16GB drives then this is truely a deal breaker to me.

It is very clear and it is not any kind of bug:

In Owon User manual: The supported format of the USB disk: FAT32 file system, cluster size cannot exceed 4K.

Then Microsoft:

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/140365

Default cluster size for NTFS, FAT, and exFAT
Article ID: 140365

Image about FAT32 part of article

[delfinom]

It's a miniature 16GB drive in a solid metal cast body which I use because shitty plastic ones always fall apart on me. If the scope cannot handle 16GB drives then this is truely a deal breaker to me.

It is very clear and it is not any kind of bug:

In Owon User manual: The supported format of the USB disk: FAT32 file system, cluster size cannot exceed 4K.

Then Microsoft:

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/140365

Default cluster size for NTFS, FAT, and exFAT
Article ID: 140365

Image about FAT32 part of article

They should add in drive size instead of saying 4KB cluster size in their manual. Most people won't know off the top of their heads what that correlates to.