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Products => Test Equipment => Topic started by: Rhythmtech on September 21, 2010, 03:37:04 pm

Title: UNI-T UTD2102CEL vs. Rigol DS1102E?
Post by: Rhythmtech on September 21, 2010, 03:37:04 pm
UNI-TUTD2102CEL (http://www.goodluckbuy.com/uni-t-utd2102cel-1g-digital-storage-oscilloscope-100mhz-wide-screen.html)

I love the wide screen, I am wondering how this scope might stack up against other Chinese scopes like the Rigol scopes. Anybody have any experience with them?
Title: Re: UNI-T UTD2102CEL vs. Rigol DS1102E?
Post by: Kiriakos-GR on September 21, 2010, 06:12:26 pm
I have an hidden wish list ( about something like that ) but not that advanced ...  

But my doctor said, to be patience , for few months more.

But hey this looks sweet too.
Title: Re: UNI-T UTD2102CEL vs. Rigol DS1102E?
Post by: Rhythmtech on September 21, 2010, 06:20:29 pm
Yeah, I am feeling this one too. I am really happy with my Uni-T UT603 (http://www.uni-trend.com/UT603.html).  I just moved to a house and have a room just for my bench so my list is growing too...  Once the mess of moving is done, maybe we can pick one of these up for reviews.   ;D
Title: Re: UNI-T UTD2102CEL vs. Rigol DS1102E?
Post by: Mechatrommer on September 21, 2010, 06:24:26 pm
its in ebay too, but $100 more expensive :( http://cgi.ebay.com.my/Uni-T-UTD2102CEL-1G-Digital-Storage-Oscilloscope-100MHz-/260664969798?pt=Radio_Control_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3cb0d7ca46 (http://cgi.ebay.com.my/Uni-T-UTD2102CEL-1G-Digital-Storage-Oscilloscope-100MHz-/260664969798?pt=Radio_Control_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3cb0d7ca46) but free shipping ;). i prefer the black color (just as Kiriakos's image), coz the white is more "rigolish", but i wonder why the seller put the black unit as thumbnail but in the description... its the "rigolish" white unit? ??? has anyone here made an order from http://www.goodluckbuy.com (http://www.goodluckbuy.com) as recommended by OP? are they safe?
Title: Re: UNI-T UTD2102CEL vs. Rigol DS1102E?
Post by: Rhythmtech on September 21, 2010, 06:49:39 pm
A friend of mine ordered a UT-30A and received it. I am sure it is like any Chinese onilne retailer - Good until you need to communicate about anything like delivery issues, status updates, returns, etc...  Some of these even have people who speak good english and provide support for US sales through their forums. They probably work on a cases resolved basis.
Title: Re: UNI-T UTD2102CEL vs. Rigol DS1102E?
Post by: DJPhil on September 21, 2010, 06:51:14 pm
This one looks like it'd be worth looking into. It's almost as though someone's finally decided the hobbyist market was worth courting!

I found a blog from a fellow in Spain (http://picanyaelectronics.blogspot.com/)(English via Google translate (http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fpicanyaelectronics.blogspot.com%2F&sl=es&tl=en&hl=&ie=UTF-8)) linked in an ebay listing. Maybe I'm becoming cynical, but I'm not completely sure it's not a fancy advertisement. It's more information at the very least.

My first concern was the screen after hearing about Owon using STN LCDs in their 7.8" models. The blog lists it as a TFT LCD, ok, good start!
Memory depth is 2x600K. Not the best, but it seems high enough for most things. I guess the real question is whether it drops off at high sample rates.
Edit: "Recording Length" is "2 x 600k sampling dot"
        "Saving Depth" is 25K Single channel, 12.5K Dual channel - Ok, that's just crap. Sorry I missed that earlier.  :-[

The pdf manual (http://www.aidetek.com/New_products_info/Datasheet/UNI_T/UTD2000L_english_manual.pdf) has extended specs starting on page 73, though they don't add much.

Good find! Hopefully they'll loan one to Dave to test! :D
Title: Re: UNI-T UTD2102CEL vs. Rigol DS1102E?
Post by: Kiriakos-GR on September 21, 2010, 07:11:22 pm

Good find! Hopefully they'll loan one to Dave to test! :D

The bank said cash only  ...  :D 
Title: Re: UNI-T UTD2102CEL vs. Rigol DS1102E?
Post by: TopherTheME on September 22, 2010, 12:27:48 am
I know the folks at sparkfun recommend the Uni-T 60A DMM so I'm guessing the scope can't be to bad. They have been all over ebay for a while now, I'm surprised there isn't more info about them. 
Title: Re: UNI-T UTD2102CEL vs. Rigol DS1102E?
Post by: alm on September 22, 2010, 06:19:21 am
I know the folks at sparkfun recommend the Uni-T 60A DMM so I'm guessing the scope can't be to bad. They have been all over ebay for a while now, I'm surprised there isn't more info about them. 
A DMM is much simpler than a scope, and a quite different skill set. Building a DIY 3.5 digit DMM wouldn't be too hard (you could even use something like an ICL7106), building a basic 60MHz/1GS/s scope is much harder. Fluke make excellent low-frequency equipment like DMM's and calibration equipment. Their high-frequency equipment was usually not that well received when they still made them. Note that they currently only make industrial ScopeMeters, which have low bandwidth and poor specs compared to similarly priced bench scopes.

Not saying Uni-T scopes are bad, but the fact that they make acceptable quality DMM's doesn't mean that their scopes are similar, they could be much worse or better. There was recently a thread on this forum about the record length of an Uni-T scope, it showed that documentation was poor and inconsistent, and I don't think the poster got a response from Uni-T (at least he didn't post any). It's hard to know unless someone with enough knowledge and equipment does a thorough evaluation of the scope.
Title: Re: UNI-T UTD2102CEL vs. Rigol DS1102E?
Post by: Bored@Work on September 22, 2010, 06:24:23 am
Uni-T is like hundreds of other Asian measurement instrument manufacturers, mediocre quality and no support.

What distinguishes them, and a few others like Rigol, from the mass of Asian instrument manufacturers is they go the extra mile to produce an English manual of dubious quality. This is relatively rare. Even rarer are Asian manufacturers producing good English manuals. But because of the combination of cheap and English manual Uni-T is one of the few manufacturers people like to import.

It is not the quality that makes people buy them. Look at that UTD2102CEL mechanical construction. You immediately notice two goofs. Power supply socket sticking out of the left, making it difficult to place it in a rack or shelf with other instruments. The plug belongs at the back. And the power button is on the top. WTF? The button belongs on the front panel.

Then you notice there is only a front USB plug. The manual says it is OTG, so might work for a PC connection, too. If it does work for a PC connection, you have that USB cable hanging around on the front, not on the back.

The manual is not really clear if it can interface with a PC at all. If it can then the control commands for the PC interface aren't documented, and I bet my pants their PC software is shit.

Next thing is they don't make full use of the wide screen. The menu on the right seems to stick and take up a good bunch of the screen.

But even with the menu occupying the screen, the claimed 800 pixel horizontal resolution doesn't add up. They have 12 horizontal divs. So they must cram like 50 or 60 samples in a horizontal div to make use of that resolution. And it would be hard to discern individual samples at that 50 samples/div resolution. Or they just cram the usual 10 samples in, and draw lines between them (shudder). In the manual they say they start interpolating 2:1 at some point (shudder). That would mean they still cram 25 or 30 real samples in a div, still hard to discern individual samples.

Also obvious, they still haven't sorted out their memory length vs. memory depth specification confusion. Only that they now introduce the terms recording length and saving depth, too. So is it 2 * 600k (recording length), or 25k (1 channel) / 12.5k (two channels) (saving depth)?

The advertising says it has a special print screen feature. Again over that single USB plug? Memory stick, PC, printer all over one USB plug? BTW, I can't find mentioning of that print feature in the manual. Again, they don't manage to come up with a clear specification.

That UTD2102CEL is just the typical Asian lucky bag. It is left to the buyer to figure out what he got. Uni-T won't care once they have your money.
Title: Re: UNI-T UTD2102CEL vs. Rigol DS1102E?
Post by: PeterG on September 22, 2010, 06:56:10 am
The UNI-T scope has 25k memory depth......enough said. Go with the Rigol DS1102E for the longer memory depth, i have had no problems with mine at all.
Title: Re: UNI-T UTD2102CEL vs. Rigol DS1102E?
Post by: DJPhil on September 22, 2010, 10:51:27 am
Wow, I should have dug deeper. I corrected my previous post about the poor memory depth (if that's what "saving depth" is).
This one seems like a lemon, and it's probably a moot point, but

But even with the menu occupying the screen, the claimed 800 pixel horizontal resolution doesn't add up. They have 12 horizontal divs. So they must cram like 50 or 60 samples in a horizontal div to make use of that resolution. And it would be hard to discern individual samples at that 50 samples/div resolution. Or they just cram the usual 10 samples in, and draw lines between them (shudder). In the manual they say they start interpolating 2:1 at some point (shudder). That would mean they still cram 25 or 30 real samples in a div, still hard to discern individual samples.

I think I sorted this one out.
From page 77 in the manual (http://www.aidetek.com/New_products_info/Datasheet/UNI_T/UTD2000L_english_manual.pdf): "Display resolution: 800 horizontal x RGB x 480 vertical pixels (color)" and "Waveform display zone: Lateral 12 div, 25 dot/div, Longitudinal 8 div, 25 dot/div"
Using the screenshots from the blog I mentioned before (which were actually 400x240) I measured the waveform zone at 301x201. At least that matches what they have in the manual! For comparison the Rigol's full screen size is 320x234, shares the same number of major divisions (12x8) and the menu pops out, so I'd expect the waveform displays to be roughly the same number of pixels. It looks like they're actually rendering at 400x240 and blowing it up digitally to 800x480. What a waste! And that doesn't even address your concerns about samples per pixel. I'd look into it further, but there doesn't seem to be much point after all the rest!

I'm pretty easygoing about some quirks. I know I'm not speaking for everyone, but I don't mind an inconvenient plug or power switch if I'm getting a good deal. This one seems like a lemon though, and a far cry from Rigol territory.
Title: Re: UNI-T UTD2102CEL vs. Rigol DS1102E?
Post by: PeterG on September 22, 2010, 02:36:11 pm
A lot of bleeding edge tech comes from Asia.
When i am looking for test gear, i only ask one thing.

Will it do what i need for the price i am willing to pay?

If the answer is yes, then i buy it. I dont care what color it is as long as it works and it made by a reputable company such as Rigol.

Regards
Title: Re: UNI-T UTD2102CEL vs. Rigol DS1102E?
Post by: Mechatrommer on September 22, 2010, 03:08:07 pm
and to compare with rigol screen, i copied a picture from http://cgi.ebay.com.my/RIGOL-DS-1052E-Digital-Oscilloscope-DS1052E-50MHz-2ch-/320563639805?pt=BI_Oscilloscopes&hash=item4aa314f5fd (http://cgi.ebay.com.my/RIGOL-DS-1052E-Digital-Oscilloscope-DS1052E-50MHz-2ch-/320563639805?pt=BI_Oscilloscopes&hash=item4aa314f5fd) and made the crudest comparison method ever. from my conclusion, even without menu in rigol, uni-t still got larger graph (with menu). but it is sad if its true that the menu is sticky, still no evidence on this. the menu on/off button has been replaced with print copy button. i hope pressing the feature menu button twice will off the menu.
Title: Re: UNI-T UTD2102CEL vs. Rigol DS1102E?
Post by: Kiriakos-GR on September 22, 2010, 03:40:44 pm
I will do to it the EMI tests , because its the easy part ...   ;D  ;D  ;D
Title: Re: UNI-T UTD2102CEL vs. Rigol DS1102E?
Post by: PeterG on September 22, 2010, 04:03:01 pm
Well Dave has reviewed the DS1052E which it the same scope just clocked down to 50Mhz. We need to know a lot more about the UNI-T scope and also more about the company.

Regards

Title: Re: UNI-T UTD2102CEL vs. Rigol DS1102E?
Post by: Kiriakos-GR on September 22, 2010, 04:39:16 pm
From my end ( EU ) everything is covered with 2 years warranty no matter what ...

All that I need are to find an local reseller with the lowest price .

If you care about parts and cost .... call them  ( email ) !! 
Title: Re: UNI-T UTD2102CEL vs. Rigol DS1102E?
Post by: Rhythmtech on September 22, 2010, 08:55:26 pm
Uni-T is like hundreds of other Asian measurement instrument manufacturers, mediocre quality and no support....

Yup, but that is at this point a legitimate market that has appeal. You seem to be assuming there are hundreds of idiots who are buying cheap Chinese test equipment without any thought to crappy support.  Personally I'd much rather have one of the LeCroy WaveAce scopes, but at 4-5 times the cost, I cannot afford one.  I almost won an older model LeCroy 9310 on ebay for ~$100 earlier this week, but it got sniped while I was trying to snipe it...

I am somewhat lucky in that I have access to equipment that I know is calibrated and working correctly to compare units I've purchased from eBay with. Under most circumstance any product more than ~$400 is cost prohibitive and I am unable to justify owning it for hobbyist home use.  Not to mention, that purchasing a scope from eBay brand name or not for more than say $200 becomes a costly gamble.  So a Chinese scope coupled with a forum like this one would give me adequate support.
Title: Re: UNI-T UTD2102CEL vs. Rigol DS1102E?
Post by: Bored@Work on September 22, 2010, 09:32:03 pm
You seem to be assuming there are hundreds of idiots who are buying cheap Chinese test equipment without any thought to crappy support.

No, I am stating experience. If you don't want to hear experiences don't ask in a public forum. And I certainly won't prevent you from whatever you want to buy. Just don't come back whining.
Title: Re: UNI-T UTD2102CEL vs. Rigol DS1102E?
Post by: PeterG on September 23, 2010, 01:41:43 am
I see this thread is not about hi-end equipment, it is about hobbyist level gear.

BoredAtWork has a valid point, however, in this case the OP is not looking for industrial level equipment.

I am a happy owner of a "Cheep Chinese" DSO and FG. I have had no problems at all. The OP is asking for help deciding between 2 companies who both happen to be based in Asia. I don't base these decisions on where the product is made. I base my decision on whether the product will do what i need.

In this case i would have to recommend the Rigol due to them having being well known for making quality products. UNI-T has a big "Shopfront" but i have seen little of them outside of Asia. Rigol are however available retail here in Australia so i have a local contact for repairs.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Regards

Title: Re: UNI-T UTD2102CEL vs. Rigol DS1102E?
Post by: Rhythmtech on September 23, 2010, 09:37:30 am
You seem to be assuming there are hundreds of idiots who are buying cheap Chinese test equipment without any thought to crappy support.

No, I am stating experience. If you don't want to hear experiences don't ask in a public forum. And I certainly won't prevent you from whatever you want to buy. Just don't come back whining.

Good point. I probably could have worded that better.
Title: Re: UNI-T UTD2102CEL vs. Rigol DS1102E?
Post by: Mechatrommer on September 23, 2010, 04:42:11 pm
yesterday, i've made a bit research on Uni-T scope....

BAND,   RIGOL,   UNI-T
50MHz,   DS1052,   UTD2052
100MHz,   DS1102,   UTD2102

what a coincidence in model numbering.
Title: Re: UNI-T UTD2102CEL vs. Rigol DS1102E?
Post by: Bored@Work on September 23, 2010, 05:00:59 pm
yesterday, i've made a bit research on Uni-T scope....

BAND,   RIGOL,   UNI-T
50MHz,   DS1052,   UTD2052
100MHz,   DS1102,   UTD2102

what a coincidence in model numbering.
No coincidence. It is not unusual to number scopes in the Rigol and UNI-T category like:

digit 1 - Series
digit 2, digit 3 - Bandwidth
digit 4 - Channels

So DS1102 is a Rigol series 1000, 100 MHz, 2 channel oscilloscope.  Or take the Instek GDS-1052. An Instek series 1000, 50 MHz, 2 channel oscilloscope.
Title: Re: UNI-T UTD2102CEL vs. Rigol DS1102E?
Post by: Fraser on September 24, 2010, 11:53:49 pm
Hi All,

I am new to this Forum and have just purchased a Rigol DS1052E with which I am very pleased. Thanks for the recommendation Dave  :)

I have been a loyal customer of UNI-TREND products for some time and have several of their multimeters and the UT-81B multimeter/oscilloscope. These products have appeared well built and to date have provided me with good service in the hobbyist role.

Now the bad news. I recently purchased one of UNI-T's more expensive bench multimeters, the UT-804. The first unit was faulty upon delivery and went into an alarm mode after being switched on. The supplier immediately sent a second unit that failed with intermittant readings after only a day of use. After sending evidence of the faults to the seller he decided they were scrap and let me keep them at no cost  ;D What does that tell you about how much these units cost him eh ?

Upon opening the UT-804 I was confronted by a total pile of rubbish. 90% of the meter case is empty. There is a PCB running the full length of the front panel with a small daughter board for the connector fuses etc. The PCB appears to be a fibreglass type and the soldering of some SMD components is appalling. To top it off the terminals are connected to the main board by the compression of rubbish self tapper srews into cheap plastic that has cracked under the strain, no wonder I was getting poor resistance and voltage readings. The UT-804 is supposed to be a UNI-T quality product, well I can confirm that it is very poorly made and unreliable.

Consider my comments when looking at any expensive UNI-T product...... is it going to be like the UT-804 inside. I for one didn't take the risk and bought the Rigol product that had Dave's thumbs up. Maybe the UNI-T DSO is made on another production line or by someone else.... to be sure you would need to look inside and check out the build quality.

Title: Re: UNI-T UTD2102CEL vs. Rigol DS1102E?
Post by: alm on September 25, 2010, 12:17:20 am
I am new to this Forum and have just purchased a Rigol DS1052E with which I am very pleased. Thanks for the recommendation Dave  :)
Welcome to the forum!

Now the bad news. I recently purchased one of UNI-T's more expensive bench multimeters, the UT-804. The first unit was faulty upon delivery and went into an alarm mode after being switched on. The supplier immediately sent a second unit that failed with intermittant readings after only a day of use. After sending evidence of the faults to the seller he decided they were scrap and let me keep them at no cost  ;D What does that tell you about how much these units cost him eh ?
Guess you should've done some research (http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.design/browse_thread/thread/118e4c6d567c03f1/71f07eaa6473af3b?q=ut804) ;), unless you bought it before that was posted.

Upon opening the UT-81B I was confronted by a total pile of rubbish. 90% of the meter case is empty. [...] The UT-804 is supposed to be a UNI-T quality product, well I can confirm that it is very poorly made and unreliable.
Is this the UT-81B handheld meter/scope or the UT-804 bench meter?

Consider my comments when looking at any expensive UNI-T product...... is it going to be like the UT-804 inside. I for one didn't take the risk and bought the Rigol product that had Dave's thumbs up. Maybe the UNI-T DSO is made on another production line or by someone else.... to be sure you would need to look inside and check out the build quality.
I wonder if some of their products are bought from other vendors? It seems strange that the build quality of a more expensive bench meter is worse than cheap handheld meters (from what I remember from Dave's review, the $100 meter wasn't great either, but not that bad). It does show that you can't just rely on the Uni-T brand for even mediocre quality.
Title: Re: UNI-T UTD2102CEL vs. Rigol DS1102E?
Post by: slburris on September 25, 2010, 01:20:01 am
Can you post some pictures of UT-818's insides?

Scott
Title: Re: UNI-T UTD2102CEL vs. Rigol DS1102E?
Post by: Kiriakos-GR on September 25, 2010, 01:59:42 am

I wonder if some of their products are bought from other vendors? It seems strange that the build quality of a more expensive bench meter is worse than cheap handheld meters (from what I remember from Dave's review, the $100 meter wasn't great either, but not that bad). It does show that you can't just rely on the Uni-T brand for even mediocre quality.

I have stop to wonder about such matters , even Olympus that does digital cameras for many years now,
had very few truly worthy models ..

And my opinion are , that today we must looking  and buy only the well made models , from any brand ..
Title: Re: UNI-T UTD2102CEL vs. Rigol DS1102E?
Post by: Fraser on September 25, 2010, 11:14:45 am


As has been noticed, I made a typo in my last message...ooops

"Upon opening the UT-81B I was confronted by a total pile of rubbish" should read "Upon opening the UT-804 I was confronted by a total pile of rubbish".

My excuse... it was late and I was tired   ;)

I think I have some pictures of the UT-804 internals if anyone would like a laugh .... I will have a look though my archives. I still have the 804's sitting in their boxes under my bench in disgrace.... can't be bothered to sort them out for the moment.

I should have done more research before buying but didn't find anything about this speific meter when I searched previously.

The UT-81B appears (outwardly anyway) to be quite sturdy and well constructed.... better than the 'feel' of the UT-804 and , as a low bandwidth scopemeter performs well. I have not taken it apart yet as the warranty is still valid. My Fluke 97 Scopemeter is better built but then it cost significantly more than the UT-81's GBP 90 when new  ;D

Title: Re: UNI-T UTD2102CEL vs. Rigol DS1102E?
Post by: Mechatrommer on September 25, 2010, 11:50:09 am
Upon opening the UT-81B I was confronted by a total pile of rubbish. 90% of the meter case is empty. There is a PCB running the full length of the front panel with a small daughter board for

then maybe we should be getting this ??? anyone?

3X the price (Hantek DSO1200 200MHz):
http://cgi.ebay.com.my/Hantek-DSO1200-200MHz-HandHeld-Scope-Meter-Oscilloscope-/270544410880?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3efdb41900 (http://cgi.ebay.com.my/Hantek-DSO1200-200MHz-HandHeld-Scope-Meter-Oscilloscope-/270544410880?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3efdb41900)

10X the price (Fluke 196C 100MHz):
http://cgi.ebay.com.my/Fluke-196C-ScopeMeter-Oscilloscope-Scope-Meter-196-/390243341327?pt=BI_Oscilloscopes&hash=item5adc50d40f (http://cgi.ebay.com.my/Fluke-196C-ScopeMeter-Oscilloscope-Scope-Meter-196-/390243341327?pt=BI_Oscilloscopes&hash=item5adc50d40f)

the Hantek seems interesting too at the price of 3X UT81B, we get 25X the bandwidth. Any review/comment?
so maybe if i buy this (Hantek) i'll get 3 in 1 ie: DMM, Scopemeter (which is what it designed for :P), and most importantly for me is Greater than Rigol DS1102 and Uni-T 2102 performance ??? 200MHz man! 200MHz! errr. except for the 500MS/s, well, at least half?
Title: Re: UNI-T UTD2102CEL vs. Rigol DS1102E?
Post by: Fraser on September 25, 2010, 05:23:07 pm
Hi All,

I have added a couple of internal pictures to the UT-81B  to the review thread that is already running if anyone is interested.

I am also attaching a couple of pictures I have of the UT-804 internals to this message.

The poor terminal contact construction using self tapping screws is visible on the right hand side of the front panel picture. Sadly I cannot find any pictures of the front panel PCB itself.... I think I had given up on the UT-804 by then !

You sure get a lot of fresh air for your money with this unit but maybe that's just large scale integration for you  ;)

I personally think it is probably a very similar design to many of the UNI-T handheld multimeters, just in a bench case and more money.

I ended up buying two used Fluke 8840A bench multimeters with the AC RMS and GPIB options fitted. When you look inside those Fluke units you get a feeling of true quality. They may be old but by heck they were built well and they have software configured calibration.... no mechanical pots to adjust  :D Accuracy was excellent when tested against my employers standards.

Regards

Fraser
Title: Re: UNI-T UTD2102CEL vs. Rigol DS1102E?
Post by: Bored@Work on September 25, 2010, 06:23:17 pm
Damn, another typo ... Fluke 8845A should read 8840A ...oops!

Why don't you press the Modify button on your posting and correct it?
Title: Re: UNI-T UTD2102CEL vs. Rigol DS1102E?
Post by: Fraser on September 25, 2010, 06:58:26 pm
Thanks....Done.

Newbie learning the forum functionality  :)

Fraser
Title: Re: UNI-T UTD2102CEL vs. Rigol DS1102E?
Post by: Mechatrommer on September 26, 2010, 12:28:04 am
you picture of UT804... yea its terrible compared to what i've seen, i'll second you on "very similar design to many of the UNI-T handheld multimeters, just in a bench case and more money" thanx for the review. but where is your UT81B pictures? can you post as well?
o ok, i saw it in https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=1349.15;topicseen (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=1349.15;topicseen)
Title: Re: UNI-T UTD2102CEL vs. Rigol DS1102E?
Post by: Bored@Work on September 26, 2010, 06:32:13 am
Unlike Dave I do like bench multimeters, but that UT804 isn't a bench multimeter, it is an expensive lunch box. 260 USD for mostly air enclosed in cheap plastic.

Not that others cheap bench multimeters are much better. Some time ago I had the chance to peak inside a Mastech MS8050. http://www.p-mastech.com/products/04_dm/ms8050.html (http://www.p-mastech.com/products/04_dm/ms8050.html) It had a robust metal enclosure, and wasn't as much highly integrated than the UT804 (read: the enclosure was halfway filled), but I saw one of the most shoddy soldering jobs I ever saw. It was a real shame.

The worst were three SMD resistors, flipped  and "glued" (I refuse to call that soldering), "glued" together in the form of a triangle / pyramid. It looked like they didn't have a particular resistor value, and made on from three others. And had an absolute beginner in soldering "glue" the resistors together.

There were also tiny splashes of solder all over the PCB. Just as if someone wanted to get rid of excess solder on the tip and shook it off from the tip instead of using the sponge, splashing solder into the instrument.
Title: Re: UNI-T UTD2102CEL vs. Rigol DS1102E?
Post by: Mechatrommer on September 26, 2010, 09:14:59 am
terrible in my previous comment, look at the sale on ebay, i think it just maybe deserve that way at $167.00, other portable DMM maybe in that price range too http://cgi.ebay.com.my/Uni-T-UT804-Bench-Type-Digital-Multimeters-w-driver-USB-/220663448987?pt=BI_Analyzers&hash=item336091059b. (http://cgi.ebay.com.my/Uni-T-UT804-Bench-Type-Digital-Multimeters-w-driver-USB-/220663448987?pt=BI_Analyzers&hash=item336091059b.) The picture shows you can as well put something on the top (inside) of it ;D
Title: Re: UNI-T UTD2102CEL vs. Rigol DS1102E?
Post by: alm on September 26, 2010, 06:52:20 pm
All bench meters I've taken apart had at least one PCB almost filling the case with analog and digital electronics. They weren't as tightly packed as handhelds, but not almost empty like this one. But they were at least 5.5 digits and made by real brands like HP or Keithley. For that kind of performance, you can't just use an off the shelf IC like the ICL7106, especially 15-30 years ago (these things are way too expensive for me to buy new). The ADC is usually build from discrete components (including op-amps).

I too agree with the handheld meter in a bench box and expensive lunch box comments (although I'm not sure I'd trust my lunch to one).
Title: Re: UNI-T UTD2102CEL vs. Rigol DS1102E?
Post by: hyiu00 on November 25, 2010, 01:21:35 am
I just bought one UTD2102CEL in Hong Kong for HK$2600 (about US$333).  I think for a hobbyist electronics, it is not worth paying for a fortune to put a scope at home, as the electronics you repair within the oscilloscpe lifetime will probably cost less than the scope itself.  Therefore I choose to buy a cheap one.  It works fine, but I do not have much equipment to check its full performance.

I used similar Rigol and Tektronix scope before with my previous jobs.  One thing I notice about Rigol compared with Tektronix TDS1000 series is that Rigol is a little bit more noisy when turned to very small V/div.  But unfortunately I cannot compared it with my Uni-T since I do not work there any more.

Title: Re: UNI-T UTD2102CEL vs. Rigol DS1102E?
Post by: IanJ on February 05, 2011, 08:47:38 am
Hi all,

Just bought a Uni-T UTD2102CEL for home use........looking forward to it.

I'm building a new garden w/shop for all my home projects........great fun populating it with new toys.

Ian.
Title: Re: UNI-T UTD2102CEL vs. Rigol DS1102E?
Post by: Mechatrommer on February 05, 2011, 10:22:17 am
pls review for us ;)
Title: Re: UNI-T UTD2102CEL vs. Rigol DS1102E?
Post by: saturation on February 05, 2011, 12:59:04 pm
Yes, please review it for us!

Here are some simple suggestions for quick overview of its performance.

Check the rise time, all you need is a square wave generator to about 1-10MHz, use the fastest scope timebase, and use the automatic measure function to see what rise time it gives you at the leading edge of the wave.  If you don't have 10 MHz, any square wave generator will do for now, if you can find its documented rise time.  The internal calibration square wave may not be fast enough.

See how close you can get to 3.5ns.

A quick test of the vertical amp, just measure the DC output of a 1.5V battery and compare it against your DMM.

Title: Re: UNI-T UTD2102CEL vs. Rigol DS1102E?
Post by: Mala_elektronic on February 06, 2011, 07:38:44 pm
Hi,
I recently had the Uni-Trend UTD2052CEL. It didn’t like it. So I sent it back.
I wrote a small review of the UTD2052CEL.
You can read it here in german:
http://www.martin-lauff.de/uni-trend-utd-2052cel-test.html (http://www.martin-lauff.de/uni-trend-utd-2052cel-test.html)
and here in English (Google translated):
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.martin-lauff.de%2Ftekway-dst1102b.html (http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.martin-lauff.de%2Ftekway-dst1102b.html)

Same things are very bad with the UTD2052CEL. The FFT has an error of about 20% and the Screen resolution is not fully used. They use 4 pixels for one. I have make same screenshots of it which you can see in the review.
I sand it back and buy the Tekway DST1102B. This one uses the full display and gives a correct FFT. I make a review of it, too.
Here in German: http://www.martin-lauff.de/tekway-dst1102b.html (http://www.martin-lauff.de/tekway-dst1102b.html)
and here in English (Google translated, too):
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.martin-lauff.de%2Funi-trend-utd-2052cel-test.html (http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.martin-lauff.de%2Funi-trend-utd-2052cel-test.html)
Title: Re: UNI-T UTD2102CEL vs. Rigol DS1102E?
Post by: saturation on February 07, 2011, 12:34:30 pm
Vielen danke, Herr Mala_elektronic.  One of the most extensive reviews I know out in the Internet on both DSOs.  Still reading through.

Also, your forum link has more information.

Hi,
I recently had the Uni-Trend UTD2052CEL. It didn’t like it. So I sent it back.
I wrote a small review of the UTD2052CEL.
You can read it here in german:
http://www.martin-lauff.de/uni-trend-utd-2052cel-test.html (http://www.martin-lauff.de/uni-trend-utd-2052cel-test.html)
and here in English (Google translated):
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.martin-lauff.de%2Ftekway-dst1102b.html (http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.martin-lauff.de%2Ftekway-dst1102b.html)

Same things are very bad with the UTD2052CEL. The FFT has an error of about 20% and the Screen resolution is not fully used. They use 4 pixels for one. I have make same screenshots of it which you can see in the review.
I sand it back and buy the Tekway DST1102B. This one uses the full display and gives a correct FFT. I make a review of it, too.
Here in German: http://www.martin-lauff.de/tekway-dst1102b.html (http://www.martin-lauff.de/tekway-dst1102b.html)
and here in English (Google translated, too):
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.martin-lauff.de%2Funi-trend-utd-2052cel-test.html (http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.martin-lauff.de%2Funi-trend-utd-2052cel-test.html)
Title: Re: UNI-T UTD2102CEL vs. Rigol DS1102E?
Post by: Mala_elektronic on February 08, 2011, 02:11:10 pm
no problem. I have looked myself for a review, but couldn’t find one.
There are definitely still some gaps in it. So if you have any questions, feel free to ask. I don’t have the UTD2052CEL anymore, but maybe I still remember same details and can help you. I talked to some people which has the Uni-T DSO too and send it although back. So I can ask them too.
I am more often in my forum, so I could respond there more quickly. (You can also write in English).
Title: Re: UNI-T UTD2102CEL vs. Rigol DS1102E?
Post by: saturation on February 09, 2011, 12:56:42 pm
Yes, I'd prefer to see more performance tests that usability or ergonomic evaluations, but overall, the photos are very revealing.  I put measurement precision and accuracy first before all else.  Since the Uni-t has the amplitude error in FFT function, what else can is wrong?  What bothers me is that the factory did not bother check for it, so what else could be missing that may take substantial testing to find?  There may be non-linearities, poorly aligned ADC, all will create subtle errors.

The Rigol, for all its pluses and minuses, does not have such glaring faults, and what little bugs I've found are minor and ergonomically related than measurement quality.


no problem. I have looked myself for a review, but couldn’t find one.
There are definitely still some gaps in it. So if you have any questions, feel free to ask. I don’t have the UTD2052CEL anymore, but maybe I still remember same details and can help you. I talked to some people which has the Uni-T DSO too and send it although back. So I can ask them too.
I am more often in my forum, so I could respond there more quickly. (You can also write in English).
Title: Re: UNI-T UTD2102CEL vs. Rigol DS1102E?
Post by: alm on February 09, 2011, 01:41:35 pm
The Rigol, for all its pluses and minuses, does not have such glaring faults, and what little bugs I've found are minor and ergonomically related than measurement quality.
I would consider the issues with automatic measurements (based on low-resolution screen instead of original signal, and results sometimes appear to depend on the position of the waveform on the screen) related to measurement quality, although they may not be as bad as the Uni-T issue.
Title: Re: UNI-T UTD2102CEL vs. Rigol DS1102E?
Post by: saturation on February 09, 2011, 03:31:13 pm
This is true, but its holds to the documented specs of ~ 3-4%, up to 6% when you include the conditions mentioned in the manual.

Its easy to test, for amplitude vertical accuracy is calibrated against DC.  However, like the olden days of reading off graticules, the error is least if your waveform fills the screen without overshoot and increases to maximum with small images, because of reduced resolution.  For frequency, rise time, period etc., all can be compared against manual measurements.


The Rigol, for all its pluses and minuses, does not have such glaring faults, and what little bugs I've found are minor and ergonomically related than measurement quality.
I would consider the issues with automatic measurements (based on low-resolution screen instead of original signal, and results sometimes appear to depend on the position of the waveform on the screen) related to measurement quality, although they may not be as bad as the Uni-T issue.
Title: Re: UNI-T UTD2102CEL vs. Rigol DS1102E?
Post by: alm on February 09, 2011, 04:43:46 pm
Its easy to test, for amplitude vertical accuracy is calibrated against DC.  However, like the olden days of reading off graticules, the error is least if your waveform fills the screen without overshoot and increases to maximum with small images, because of reduced resolution.  For frequency, rise time, period etc., all can be compared against manual measurements.
This is correct, but you could also work around the FFT error by doing the FFT yourself on a PC. The point of features like automated measurements like automated measurements is convenience, just like built-in FFT, and this advantage is lost if you have to do it manually.
Title: Re: UNI-T UTD2102CEL vs. Rigol DS1102E?
Post by: IanJ on February 15, 2011, 10:15:42 pm
Hi all,

Took delivery of my Uni-T UTD2102CEL today............had to laugh though, it took me 20mins to get it powered up in ENGLISH..........it was shipped with a Chinese manual only. Eventually I found an English pdf via google....... :D

Ian.
Title: Re: UNI-T UTD2102CEL vs. Rigol DS1102E?
Post by: Murer on June 15, 2011, 09:37:17 pm
Hi all,

Took delivery of my Uni-T UTD2102CEL today............had to laugh though, it took me 20mins to get it powered up in ENGLISH..........it was shipped with a Chinese manual only. Eventually I found an English pdf via google....... :D

Ian.
So... what do you think? Is it a good device?

I'm choosing between Rigol DS1052E and Uni-T UTD2052CL, which one do you guys think I should choose? Are the two channels using the same ADC on the Uni-T so you get 250MS/s if you use both channels at the same time?
Title: Re: UNI-T UTD2102CEL vs. Rigol DS1102E?
Post by: The1 on June 16, 2011, 10:12:21 pm
Hi all,

Took delivery of my Uni-T UTD2102CEL today............had to laugh though, it took me 20mins to get it powered up in ENGLISH..........it was shipped with a Chinese manual only. Eventually I found an English pdf via google....... :D

Ian.

Please let us know how it went, seeing you have had a few months to play now  ;D
Title: Re: UNI-T UTD2102CEL vs. Rigol DS1102E?
Post by: The1 on June 27, 2011, 11:18:06 am
i ended up getting a rigol 1052, you can still do the upgrade even with the latest firmware, so no reason to by anything else!
Title: Re: UNI-T UTD2102CEL vs. Rigol DS1102E?
Post by: Kozmyk on July 20, 2011, 03:05:50 am
I was tempted by the UNI-T but I wanted to know what the 2 x 600k "Record Length" meant.
Now I know, sort of, thanks guys.
I thought that description didn't look right.
I guess they're hoping that people will assume it means 2 x 600k depth and think it's a good deal.
I nearly did.
Looking at the makers spec rather than an advert, they claim 2 x 512kpts not 600.

One thing I'm still not quite clear on though is, looking at the Rigol DS1052E by comparison, how much better is it's 1Mpts record length (512kpts dual ch)?
More to the point, how much more useful is that extra number of recorded points.
Title: Re: UNI-T UTD2102CEL vs. Rigol DS1102E?
Post by: gsmicro on May 06, 2012, 02:26:02 am
I purchased an UTD 2052CEL oscilloscope & like to write a review on it.

Before that I like to know from “Mala_elektronic” – Matins reviews that there were some FFT bug in this scope.
I like to know how he measured that!!

Here how I did. I measured the 1Khz square wave pulse & opened the FFT window. Now I set the cursors to “TIME”. But the cursors are placed its own positions. When I move the cursors the frequency changes. So I cannot guess the frequency is correct or not!!

I want to know how can I check my FFT is correct or not?
Title: Re: UNI-T UTD2102CEL vs. Rigol DS1102E?
Post by: saturation on May 07, 2012, 06:18:06 pm
Send it a test square wave, the fundamental and all the harmonics progress in a fixed sequence in amplitude and value.

http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_2/chpt_7/2.html (http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_2/chpt_7/2.html)


I purchased an UTD 2052CEL oscilloscope & like to write a review on it.

Before that I like to know from “Mala_elektronic” – Matins reviews that there were some FFT bug in this scope.
I like to know how he measured that!!

Here how I did. I measured the 1Khz square wave pulse & opened the FFT window. Now I set the cursors to “TIME”. But the cursors are placed its own positions. When I move the cursors the frequency changes. So I cannot guess the frequency is correct or not!!

I want to know how can I check my FFT is correct or not?

Title: Re: UNI-T UTD2102CEL vs. Rigol DS1102E?
Post by: gsmicro on May 09, 2012, 11:53:52 pm
Send it a test square wave, the fundamental and all the harmonics progress in a fixed sequence in amplitude and value.

http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_2/chpt_7/2.html (http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_2/chpt_7/2.html)


You mean feed a square wave signal & open the FFT menu & check the frequency correct or not?What about the cursors?Where do I have to place cursors?

Can I feed that 1Khz probe test square wave?
Title: Re: UNI-T UTD2102CEL vs. Rigol DS1102E?
Post by: saturation on May 10, 2012, 12:43:20 pm
On bold item, yes.  I don't know what type of scope you have but simply check the fundamental frequency, which in your example is 1kHz, then the odd multiples: 3, 5, 7, 9 kHz etc., you should be able to see at least to 7 or 9.   Then check the amplitude as being expected, 1/3, 1/5 etc.,

1 kHz is fine for starters, but to find out your scopes capacity you need a frequency closer to its maximum capability.

Send it a test square wave, the fundamental and all the harmonics progress in a fixed sequence in amplitude and value.

http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_2/chpt_7/2.html (http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_2/chpt_7/2.html)


You mean feed a square wave signal & open the FFT menu & check the frequency correct or not?What about the cursors?Where do I have to place cursors?

Can I feed that 1Khz probe test square wave?
Title: Re: UNI-T UTD2102CEL vs. Rigol DS1102E?
Post by: poorchava on May 11, 2012, 06:45:54 am
I'm using Atten ADS1022C. I believe it's the lowest model of a DSO made by Atten. It so happens that in Poland, when bought from a reseller they cost about 2/3 of the Rigol. At the same time I've got official 2yrs warranty for it, as the EU regulations say (actually probably the only one thing I like about the whole EU stuff).

Now ranting: it lackas ability, to select measurement parameters (like freq, vrms, duty cycle etc) of observed waveform and put them on screen while hiding the rest of the menu (i like that in Tek scopes). As I generally do sub-5MHz stuff, this scope is fine for me. (and I've got periocical access to http://www.home.agilent.com/agilent/product.jspx?nid=-33565.924879.00&cc=PL&lc=eng (http://www.home.agilent.com/agilent/product.jspx?nid=-33565.924879.00&cc=PL&lc=eng)).

If you live someehere in west-EU, US or UK, I'd probably go for http://pl.farnell.com/agilent-technologies/dsox2004a-dso2wavegen-dsoxdvm/kit-oscilloscope-with-wavegen-dsoxdvm/dp/2084586?in_merch=New%20Products (http://pl.farnell.com/agilent-technologies/dsox2004a-dso2wavegen-dsoxdvm/kit-oscilloscope-with-wavegen-dsoxdvm/dp/2084586?in_merch=New%20Products)

Agilent(!) 4-channel (!) 70MHz BW, 50k waveforms infiniivision chip (!) fitted with 20MHz function generator (no AWG though) for EUR 1.5k. Actually pretty large amount of money for me (You can easily buy a quite nice condition 10yr old car for that here in Poland), but I think I'll start saving up :)