EEVblog 1441 - Electric Buses are NOT a SCAM (Adam Something)

[EEVblog]

In the end it is better to compare cost based on distance travelled (cost per km) instead of obsessing over seemingly big ticket items.

And that's what the local private bus company has done here in Sydney. The numbers are clear, EV's win hands down on cost alone, let alone the other huge benefits of reduced polution, maintenance, and smooth and silent operation. And we have zero EV government subsidies here.
Since my videos on this, a large number of people in other cities have said the same thing, the local companies are moving to EV's for the same reasons.
I'm not aware of a company that has tried them and gone nope, we are going back to diesel buses.

[nctnico]

In the end it all comes down to costs and fuel/energy costs are the most significant cost factor of operating any vehicle. If electricity prices go up then diesel may be cheaper to run:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-10-14/u-k-freight-train-operator-turns-to-diesel-as-electricity-soars

[thm_w]

In the end it all comes down to costs and fuel/energy costs are the most significant cost factor of operating any vehicle. If electricity prices go up then diesel may be cheaper to run:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-10-14/u-k-freight-train-operator-turns-to-diesel-as-electricity-soars

Sure, but any sensible country will have flat or reducing energy costs over time as they rely more on renewables.

Most of the UK’s electricity is produced by burning fossil fuels, mainly natural gas (42% in 2016) and coal (9% in 2016). 21% of our electricity comes from nuclear reactors, in which uranium atoms are split up to produce heat using a process known as fission. The UK’s nuclear power stations will close gradually over the next decade or so, with all but one expected to stop running by 2035. Renewable technologies use natural energy to make electricity. Fuel sources include wind, wave, marine, hydro, biomass and solar. It made up 24.5% of electricity generated in 2016

Nuclear energy averages 0.4 euro ¢/kWh, much the same as hydro; coal is over 4.0 ¢/kWh (4.1-7.3), gas ranges 1.3-2.3 ¢/kWh and only wind shows up better than nuclear, at 0.1-0.2 ¢/kWh average.

[EEVblog]

In the end it all comes down to costs and fuel/energy costs are the most significant cost factor of operating any vehicle. If electricity prices go up then diesel may be cheaper to run:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-10-14/u-k-freight-train-operator-turns-to-diesel-as-electricity-soars

With electric busses though you can always invest in the solar charging infrastructure yourself to offset the ongoing cost. Bus depots usually have no shortage of surface area to put panels.

[james_s]

With electric busses though you can always invest in the solar charging infrastructure yourself to offset the ongoing cost. Bus depots usually have no shortage of surface area to put panels.

Not to mention buses themselves have large, flat roofs and being utilitarian vehicles they are not nearly as bound by the whims of consumer fashion and styling. They are one of the few vehicles where it might actually make sense to put solar panels on top of them, if only to make up for the draw from the HVAC and auxiliary stuff.

[EEVblog]

With electric busses though you can always invest in the solar charging infrastructure yourself to offset the ongoing cost. Bus depots usually have no shortage of surface area to put panels.

Not to mention buses themselves have large, flat roofs and being utilitarian vehicles they are not nearly as bound by the whims of consumer fashion and styling. They are one of the few vehicles where it might actually make sense to put solar panels on top of them, if only to make up for the draw from the HVAC and auxiliary stuff.

IIRC the figure just for running the HVAC system was the equivalent capacity of my entire IONIQ car (37kWh), or roughly 1/10th of the busses consumption.

[nctnico]

With electric busses though you can always invest in the solar charging infrastructure yourself to offset the ongoing cost. Bus depots usually have no shortage of surface area to put panels.

Not to mention buses themselves have large, flat roofs and being utilitarian vehicles they are not nearly as bound by the whims of consumer fashion and styling. They are one of the few vehicles where it might actually make sense to put solar panels on top of them, if only to make up for the draw from the HVAC and auxiliary stuff.

IIRC the figure just for running the HVAC system was the equivalent capacity of my entire IONIQ car (37kWh), or roughly 1/10th of the busses consumption.

Could be. BTW somewhere in the NL they have electric busses but the heating runs on -drum roll- diesel. And the heating consumes quite a lot of it  Who comes up with that?

[SpookyGhost]

Something I have not seen mentioned yet (Correct me if I'm wrong) is that you could use these buses for emergency power if the infrastructure was setup right. Does it sound like a viable option?

Houston Metro has 1,236 buses, and lets assume 250kwh per bus. That's 309mwh

For a freeze situation like we had last year, or a hurricane, that power would be fantastic to have (And buses don't run in hurricanes anyway!)

[nctnico]

Something I have not seen mentioned yet (Correct me if I'm wrong) is that you could use these buses for emergency power if the infrastructure was setup right. Does it sound like a viable option?

No. Calculate the amount of power a city needs. Think how to move a bus through water, a blocked road or snow. Also think why the power is out: broken infrastructure so there is nothing to power. Important infrastructure is equiped with generators so you don't need backup busses for that.

[EEVblog]

Something I have not seen mentioned yet (Correct me if I'm wrong) is that you could use these buses for emergency power if the infrastructure was setup right. Does it sound like a viable option?
Houston Metro has 1,236 buses, and lets assume 250kwh per bus. That's 309mwh
For a freeze situation like we had last year, or a hurricane, that power would be fantastic to have (And buses don't run in hurricanes anyway!)

Possible, but you'd likely want the buses still operational during a blackout.
Bus depots, being a fairly essential public transport utility should actually be autonoymous in terms of backup and charging. So even if you had an extended multi-day blackout you could still charge the buses atthe depot during the day and operate them.

[EEVblog]

He finally replied.

Only skimmed it, but he admitted that electric buses do actually make sense, because obviously they do in many circumstances.
Obviously his main hangup is systemic infrastructure and cultural problems, and well, that's just fine, it's not something I'm interested in debating.
I won't bother making a reply, there is zero value in it. A lot of people didn't like his first video and he has basically pulled back the claim that electric buses are a scam.