EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)

[BradC]

I'm sure everybody here has too many multimeters.

You can *never* have too many multimeters.

[Kean]

No, it wouldn't. Nobody prints packaging in bulk months before the product begins manufacturing.

Actually it is quite easy to believe they could have done a sample (or even a large) print run of those backing cards early on for a whole bunch of reasons.  We know they are poor planners and thought they were ready to ship a while back.  Compared to the production of the devices themselves, printing these wouldn't have been costly or difficult.

[Fungus]

No, it wouldn't. Nobody prints packaging in bulk months before the product begins manufacturing.

Actually it is quite easy to believe they could have done a sample (or even a large) print run of those backing cards early on for a whole bunch of reasons.  We know they are poor planners and thought they were ready to ship a while back.  Compared to the production of the devices themselves, printing these wouldn't have been costly or difficult.

Last year they were promising to send "press packs" to people. It's easy to believe they made a few boxes in preparation for that.

(and that's what they're sending out now ... only the 'AAA' packages are new)

[timb]

No, it wouldn't. Nobody prints packaging in bulk months before the product begins manufacturing.

Actually it is quite easy to believe they could have done a sample (or even a large) print run of those backing cards early on for a whole bunch of reasons.  We know they are poor planners and thought they were ready to ship a while back.  Compared to the production of the devices themselves, printing these wouldn't have been costly or difficult.

Right, I guess that was my other point. I mentioned this several pages back, but basically, they either:

Printed up a hundred or so as packaging samples for press kits...

*or*

Printed up tens of thousands over a year before the device reportedly entered production (if they *ever* entered production). Making them horrible at this whole running a business thing.

Either scenario is equally plausible, though my money is on the former, as Bob does come from Flextronics, so I'd assume he has at least a basic grasp on how manufacturing and packaging works.

Personally, I find it highly unlikely they had tens of thousands of packages made up after the Kickstarter, as a lot companies that do product packaging have moved to "Print on Demand" for small and medium volume runs. In this scenario the assembled product would be shipped from the factory in China to the packaging company, which would take care of boxing and printing in-house. That would be the most cost effective for their volume I think.

[Kean]

In this scenario the assembled product would be shipped from the factory in China to the packaging company, which would take care of boxing and printing in-house. That would be the most cost effective for their volume I think.

Sure, that would be what sensible business owners would plan, but we know they are actually shipping from the USA. 

[Fungus]

In this scenario the assembled product would be shipped from the factory in China to the packaging company, which would take care of boxing and printing in-house. That would be the most cost effective for their volume I think.

Sure, that would be what sensible business owners would plan, but we know they are actually shipping from the USA. 

They only ship three packages per week and that's where their 'stock' is, so... 

Most printers these days will do small runs, no problem. It's all digital, no making engraved metal plates any more.

[madires]

I'm in Germany, if he sends some to me I'll gladly send them to Dave for free.

Customs could withhold it, since it doesn't have a CE sticker. Nor does it include a Declaration of Conformity.

[FrankBuss]

I'm in Germany, if he sends some to me I'll gladly send them to Dave for free.

Customs could withhold it, since it doesn't have a CE sticker. Nor does it include a Declaration of Conformity.

How did the Swiss guy then got it? Switzerland is not a member of the EU, but they require CE markings, too.

[Fungus]

I'm in Germany, if he sends some to me I'll gladly send them to Dave for free.

Customs could withhold it, since it doesn't have a CE sticker. Nor does it include a Declaration of Conformity.

How did the Swiss guy then got it? Switzerland is not a member of the EU, but they require CE markings, too.

They're not going to check conformity on individual items/packets, only on huge shipments that look like they're for resale.

And even then I'm not sure. I can buy dangerous, fake, imported crap in any number of places around here.

[Towger]

How did the Swiss guy then got it? Switzerland is not a member of the EU, but they require CE markings, too.

Only German Customs seem to care about CE marks on private imports.

[FrankBuss]

They're not going to check conformity on individual items/packets, only on huge shipments that look like they're for resale.

Huge shipments, right, no problem with Batteroo

[madires]

Customs could withhold it, since it doesn't have a CE sticker. Nor does it include a Declaration of Conformity.

How did the Swiss guy then got it? Switzerland is not a member of the EU, but they require CE markings, too.

From what I've heard, German customs sometimes checks the small random gadget for a CE label. But I think this happens only in rare cases - too much parcels. Presumably other countries do this the same way. So it's more like having bad luck, than being the usual thing to happen.

[Kalvin]

Customs could withhold it, since it doesn't have a CE sticker. Nor does it include a Declaration of Conformity.

How did the Swiss guy then got it? Switzerland is not a member of the EU, but they require CE markings, too.

From what I've heard, German customs sometimes checks the small random gadget for a CE label. But I think this happens only in rare cases - too much parcels. Presumably other countries do this the same way. So it's more like having bad luck, than being the usual thing to happen.

Just say it is a prototype, not actual product yet. Case closed.

[FrankBuss]

By the way, if you have a Raspberry Pi, you can use it for logging. See this project. There is a SD card image with some programs pre-installed and some examples. It supports already some multimeters with GPIB (with USB adapters), with USB interfaces and serial port interfaces. It is easy to enhance, I just wrote a Python script for my HM8012 which creates this output (charging a 1200 F Maxwell supercap with 3 A constant current), logging the voltage exactly every 10 seconds, and which you can display with the integrated web browser on the Rasperry Pi. Or you can mount the Raspberry Pi SD card as a Windows drive over network and just open the raw CSV data. No need to swap SD cards, complicated and proprietary software or limited memory (it needs some time to fill e.g. a 64 GB SD card). It looks like this in the browser with the installed D3js web framework for data visualization:



The diagram can be reloaded while the measurement is running. Another example with multiple curves in one diagram:



The project needs still some work, maybe an easier to use interface for standard tasks, if you don't want to write a Python script, but it is already very useful for me, and maybe for someone who wants to test the Batteriser and record some data.

[EEVblog]

So yet another week passes and how many extra report getting them? One in Germany?
How many weeks is this now from when they not only said they had shipped, but said in that shipping update that some would already have them by that update notice, it's been so long I've lost count.

[SeanB]

With the slow shipping I would have said they were using SAPO, but that would have resulted in a few being sold on Ebay already from those that were "lost" in the shipping process.

[madires]

Switzerland, not Germany. And the shipping happens exactly as anticipated.

[Fungus]

So yet another week passes and how many extra report getting them? One in Germany?

And nobody in the USA.

How many weeks is this now from when they not only said they had shipped, but said in that shipping update that some would already have them by that update notice, it's been so long I've lost count.

According to Bob+Wayne they should be approaching 100% shipped by now (Wayne assured us they were at 30% shipped after the first month and had fixed all the bugs in the shipping process).

IGG says there's 7393 backers so a very conservative estimate is that 4000-5000 people should have their Batterisers by now.

Maybe the "30%" number really means that 30% of last-years leftover prototypes had been shipped. 




Another update? Why would you need another update?



a) Tracking codes not working?
b) Using USPS to ship $10 items to thousands of people all over the world?

[FrankBuss]

Another update? Why would you need another update?

The next update could be "all items have been shipped" (would be plausible after such a long time after the first announcement that shipping started), to get the rest of the VC money for a nice vacation

[Luminax]

According to Bob+Wayne they should be approaching 100% shipped by now (Wayne assured us they were at 30% shipped after the first month and had fixed all the bugs in the shipping process).

I'm not sure I remember the exact word Boob used... was it up to30%? 

And we have no real way to ascertain what's the total number to really know how many people are in the 30%
After all, I'm 99.9999% sure the backers list are bloated with "FANS"

I gave up poking around in the backers listing after 3-5 pages...

[Fungus]

And we have no real way to ascertain what's the total number to really know how many people are in the 30%

I think we can infer it from the number of photos so far.

[Fungus]

I haven't followed this thread so closely that I can be sure there is no forum member awaiting delivery. Has anyone here said they ordered some and are awaiting delivery?

Yes.

(I don't remember names, but, "yes")

Has Dave said he ordered some?

Suuuure... they're going to post some to "David Jones, Australia".

(no, I don't think Dave ordered any on IGG)

[Halcyon]

Can some be ordered from their website? If they don't arrive within a reasonable time, simply request a charge-back through your bank?

[quad]

Another received. I have no idea what order these guys are shipping in...!

http://imgur.com/a/078Xw

[quad]

Pics from above backer, higher res available at http://imgur.com/a/078Xw (file size uploads here)