New OWON 14bit XDS3202A Oscilloscope

[Hydrawerk]

Well, at Owon it is normal. But yes, it was released back in 2015, I think.

[Muxr]

On the first look it didn't look that terrible. On the first look like few seconds I mean.

It's like an unfinished prototype. Where you just add buttons where they will fit and bare minimum unfinished proof of concept features.

[k4rlhp]

On the first look it didn't look that terrible. On the first look like few seconds I mean.

It's like an unfinished prototype. Where you just add buttons where they will fit and bare minimum unfinished proof of concept features.

Lets open the MBA playbook..... "Minimum Viable Product", anyone?

[k4rlhp]

I am completely floored....
I cannot believe that scope was released in the messed shape it is in..
 

If OWON would release the scope for open source, I wonder if it would help their sales.
Considering what fw state the thing comes in, if the HW is half decent implementation, this could be an interesting combo.
I doubt they have the guts to do it, IP crap and everything.

[AF6LJ]

I am completely floored....
I cannot believe that scope was released in the messed shape it is in..
 

If OWON would release the scope for open source, I wonder if it would help their sales.
Considering what fw state the thing comes in, if the HW is half decent implementation, this could be an interesting combo.
I doubt they have the guts to do it, IP crap and everything.

That would be a daring move and could salvage the product.
There is a problem with that idea that needs to be mentioned.
Some FPGAs and other ICs have NDAs that go along with the hardware / firmware development platform.
That might be a roadblock to making this scope open source.

[WackyGerman]

On the first glance the oscilloscope doesn t look that bad , but in details there are many strange things in the user interface and in the behaviour at work . Lots of things to fix . At this status the oscilloscope is a pita and N in 1 means Nonsence in 1 

[Jeff1946]

It seemed to me at the end of the video it seemed Dave was disappointed that he couldn't give a positive review.  Kinda  like seeing a pretty girl (or guy for you ladies) starting a conversation and realizing there is not much up stairs.

[Brumby]

When Dave first started having issues with the controls, I was thinking - maybe reading the manual could be helpful ... but as things went on and on it soon became obvious that the amount of manual reading necessary to get a handle on some very familiar and basic functionality would be far too much.

Tools should be intuitive to use as much as possible, especially with things like scopes - and this unit seems to fail badly.

To spend a few minutes studying up on some obscure and involved function for a specific situation is one thing - but having to do this for the basics means days or weeks of low productivity (not to mention the frustration) while the learning curve is climbed.

... and I haven't even touched the waiting and wondering approach instead of something simple like 'click' to confirm.

One last thing that would concern me is that, if one was looking for a function that was not uncommon in scopes, but couldn't find it - they would have to wonder if it was hidden or just not available.


A lot of this might be just me blowing hot air - but the fact that I can even talk like this is pretty much a wet blanket on thoughts on this scope.


I can only hope the 14bit capability is worth the discomfort.

[snoopy]

I am completely floored....
I cannot believe that scope was released in the messed shape it is in..
 

If OWON would release the scope for open source, I wonder if it would help their sales.
Considering what fw state the thing comes in, if the HW is half decent implementation, this could be an interesting combo.
I doubt they have the guts to do it, IP crap and everything.

That would be a daring move and could salvage the product.
There is a problem with that idea that needs to be mentioned.
Some FPGAs and other ICs have NDAs that go along with the hardware / firmware development platform.
That might be a roadblock to making this scope open source.

You may have to override everything on it and start from scratch. Would be a big project but divided amongst many hands may work out that's if the hardware is any good to begin with

[AF6LJ]

I am completely floored....
I cannot believe that scope was released in the messed shape it is in..
 

If OWON would release the scope for open source, I wonder if it would help their sales.
Considering what fw state the thing comes in, if the HW is half decent implementation, this could be an interesting combo.
I doubt they have the guts to do it, IP crap and everything.

That would be a daring move and could salvage the product.
There is a problem with that idea that needs to be mentioned.
Some FPGAs and other ICs have NDAs that go along with the hardware / firmware development platform.
That might be a roadblock to making this scope open source.

You may have to override everything on it and start from scratch. Would be a big project but divided amongst many hands may work out that's if the hardware is any good to begin with

Yah it is going to be a big job.

The comment I left in the video.
"That is not bad for a $300.00 scope"

[Fungus]

That would be a daring move and could salvage the product.
There is a problem with that idea that needs to be mentioned.
Some FPGAs and other ICs have NDAs that go along with the hardware / firmware development platform.
That might be a roadblock to making this scope open source.

You may have to override everything on it and start from scratch. Would be a big project but divided amongst many hands may work out that's if the hardware is any good to begin with

Yah it is going to be a big job.

Would take a few years to complete.

And they'll probably stop manufacturing it by then.

Writing open source software for hardware you have no control over, and isn't currently selling by the million? Might not have a happy ending.

[jonovid]

I am completely floored....
I cannot believe that scope was released in the messed shape it is in..
 

If OWON would release the scope for open source, I wonder if it would help their sales.
Considering what fw state the thing comes in, if the HW is half decent implementation, this could be an interesting combo.
I doubt they have the guts to do it, IP crap and everything.

That would be a daring move and could salvage the product.
There is a problem with that idea that needs to be mentioned.
Some FPGAs and other ICs have NDAs that go along with the hardware / firmware development platform.
That might be a roadblock to making this scope open source.

You may have to override everything on it and start from scratch. Would be a big project but divided amongst many hands may work out that's if the hardware is any good to begin with

do we need an oscilloscope design content on the forum? just to help them design a better one. 
do we Teach a oscilloscope manufacturer how to suck eggs. 

[Brumby]

They don't need any more teaching on that front - they suck pretty well as it is.

[nctnico]

That would be a daring move and could salvage the product.
There is a problem with that idea that needs to be mentioned.
Some FPGAs and other ICs have NDAs that go along with the hardware / firmware development platform.
That might be a roadblock to making this scope open source.

You may have to override everything on it and start from scratch. Would be a big project but divided amongst many hands may work out that's if the hardware is any good to begin with

Yah it is going to be a big job.

Would take a few years to complete.

And they'll probably stop manufacturing it by then.

Writing open source software for hardware you have no control over, and isn't currently selling by the million? Might not have a happy ending.

I agree that writing oscilloscope firmware is a massive task. OTOH you can write it in a portable way so it can be easely ported to a new platform. After all the function and thus hardware from various DSOs is much the same (analog front-end, ADC, memory, processor, display and front panel).

[Fungus]

Join forces with these guys:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/rigol-ds10xxz-firmware-re-write/75/

[max_torque]

Regarding the "push and hold" to turn the scope on, when it's battery powered that makes sense, to avoid those annoying accidental turn-ons during transit / handling etc, that leave you with a flat battery when you actually need it!!

  (they could of course sense the presence of the battery and enable a hold to start feature only in battery mode....)

Also, why, outside of some specific purposes (for example sampling a highly dynamic signal amplitude), does one want a high number of bits? Surely, on a normal scope, you manage with 'just' 8 bits because you have a selectable range input amplifier?  A high number of bit probably reduces the cost of the front end (as it can be simpler with less ranges) but to the average end user it brings no actual functional improvement does it??

[jonovid]

it must be the price that is the problem here 
if this oscilloscope was $199 aliexpress special, I would buy it, with some free hi z 10kv open circuit silicone rubber test leads.

[EEngo]

I have the impression that the primary target for the scope might be schools or other teaching places. With vga and composite out, the multifunction design with sig gen, multimeter etc. is perhaps not really useful for 8h everyday work.

But for those, who need arguments for spending money for a new scope, why not? 

btw: who uses vga out with scopes, except for teaching or demonstration purposes? I have always wondered with tek or lecroy what the use could be ...

ingo.

[maxwell3e10]

I have an earlier, 12 bit version, xds3062a. It works pretty well, battery power is useful for recording without introducing ground loops and 12 bit makes a difference in the noise level. It is one of the very few high resolution scopes and is a great deal at around $450 compared with a comparable data acquisition card.

Now "200 MHz" 14 bit is a big stretch since 14 bit is limited to 100 MHz sampling rate. Why pay for 200MHz front end if one is mostly getting the scope for its 14 bit resolution. Also, there is no point to the N-in-1 feature, this not an entry-level scope, so most anyone using it would have a function generator and a DMM. But if marketed right, this can be a great product.

It would be interesting to test the noise of the 14-bit ADC  and make sure the software for transferring data to computer works. High resolution is mostly useful for detailed analysis rather than just looking on the screen.

[nctnico]

What would be great for scopes with many bits is to have a digital vertical zoom so you can look at low amplitude parts of a signal without overdriving the input. The same goes for input filtering (if the oscilloscope has this feature).

[BU508A]

But for those, who need arguments for spending money for a new scope, why not? 

Well, one can do this. If you want to buy a bad example for a scope. 

Honestly, I do not trust these OWON things at all and I will only  "work" with them, when I'm forced to.

[EEVblog]

To their credit they have responded:

1. Package box shows 12-bits but actually 14-bits resolution on device label.

RE: Yes, it’s our package problem, we have start plan to change it.

2. Cymometer to imply for Frequency Counter

RE: Thanks for pointing out, we will revise the word.

3. Weird rear shape, unstable stand.

RE:

We design to XDS to be battery-operated, so a thin body can make it easy to

move around and spare more space on desktop for other device. Actually, it’s easy

to build a thick device but hard to make it thin.

?2?It looks unstable when you just push it by single finger. But on your

afterward operation, when you use your whole single palm to support on device

and touch function key, it’s stable.

?3?We are still testing on how to hold the thin device body without losing

stability like to expand stool size. Appreciate your comment.

4. RCA port issue

RE: AV port is to meet different customers’ requirement. It’s an optional port.

6. The design on horizontal menu line up with ext. trigger port.

RE: Yes, it’s our design problem, we’ll take your advice and re-consider how to

list it better. Thanks for comment.

7. Long booting time

RE: It’s an existing problem we are endeavor to solve.

8. Cannot press M knob to confirm and dismiss the menu. Have to wait until the menu

disappear or manually press menu-off button.

RE:Thanks for your comments, we’ll discuss to improve it.

9. Slow response for touch screen

RE: It’s a main issue for various oscilloscope manufacturer to study how to

improve touch screen experience these years. Tektronix, Keysight and R&S

release their touch screen oscilloscope this year respectively. Touch screen could

help on specific function such as number input (virtual keyboard do exist as long

as you press the M knob when on value input item)

We are also studying how to make better customer experience for touch screen.

10. Single channel on 14-bit resolution, sample rates at 100MS/s.

RE: Yes, so it does. Limited by hardware, we could implement 1GS/s sample rate

only at 8-bits mode.

11. When switch from vector to dot display, the waveform still show as line, not by various

dots.

RE: It’s a true problem, we’ll fix it soon.

12.Color temperature function fails and absent of intensity control access.

RE: Yes, it’s our design problem, we’ll fix it in next firmware.

13. In decoding function, could not find out which channel to set.

RE:Decoding function is optional function, but the trigger function is in standard

set, so we place the channel setting in trigger menu. Of course, this is a bad idea

to put it there, we will revise it after then.

[Monkeh]

Summary: Firmware still early beta, please buy later.

[Brumby]

It's good they have responded - and extra brownie points for doing it point-by-point.

I wonder how much will be changed - and how quickly?

[bktemp]

It sounds more like alpha version:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_release_life_cycle#Alpha

A beta version should have all features implemented.

Maybe they weren't ready, but needed to launch it now, because of RTB2004 and other scopes with similar features that appeared earlier this year?


And they should really make the samplerates and resolutions more clear. Currently it is completely misleading:
On their page:
http://www.owon.com.hk/products_info.asp?ProID=182
XDS3202A, 200MHz, 1GS/s, 14 bits
-> No, it is not.

Under specifications:
XDS3202A, 200MHz, 1GS/s, 12 bits
-> According to their statement it is only 8bits at 1GS/s.

User manual, page 114:
Vertical Resolution (A/D), XDS3202A, 12 bits
Sample rate (real time), XDS3202(A), Single CH 2 GS/s
-> It doesn't seem so.

If they can't even get the most basic specs correct, I wouldn't trust this scope at all.