sous vide cooking

[SilverSolder]

IME chicken sous vide works best with chicken breast.   My favourite is - meat in 0.75% salt brine (so salt = 0.75% of total mass water + meat) overnight, drain, in the bath with preferred spices (salt/pepper works for simple folks like me) at 70C for ~3h (not critical, just "long enough").   This was a huge hit with guests in summer 2013 according to my notes!     (Just pour the wine liberally and repeatedly!)

[langwadt]

IME chicken sous vide works best with chicken breast.   My favourite is - meat in 0.75% salt brine (so salt = 0.75% of total mass water + meat) overnight, drain, in the bath with preferred spices (salt/pepper works for simple folks like me) at 70C for ~3h (not critical, just "long enough").   This was a huge hit with guests in summer 2013 according to my notes!     (Just pour the wine liberally and repeatedly!)

"Ad libitum" is everyones favorite wine

[hvna]

I have a chart with a lot of SV temps for different meats from a place I used to work at. I'll post it here if anyone wants to give it a look. Let me know if you have questions or need help interpreting it.

[SilverSolder]

I have a chart with a lot of SV temps for different meats from a place I used to work at. I'll post it here if anyone wants to give it a look. Let me know if you have questions or need help interpreting it.

(Attachment Link)

That looks interesting.  What's up with the high initial temperatures?

[hvna]

I have a chart with a lot of SV temps for different meats from a place I used to work at. I'll post it here if anyone wants to give it a look. Let me know if you have questions or need help interpreting it.

(Attachment Link)

That looks interesting.  What's up with the high initial temperatures?

They're for pasteurizing. This was for a large hotel with a massively detailed HACCP plan so everything had to be accounted for. In my experience, the short times that the food items are exposed to the high temps don't change the overall texture in the finished product and has the added benefit of remaining stable for much longer periods of time.

[coppice]

I have a chart with a lot of SV temps for different meats from a place I used to work at. I'll post it here if anyone wants to give it a look. Let me know if you have questions or need help interpreting it.

(Attachment Link)

That looks interesting.  What's up with the high initial temperatures?

They're for pasteurizing. This was for a large hotel with a massively detailed HACCP plan so everything had to be accounted for. In my experience, the short times that the food items are exposed to the high temps don't change the overall texture in the finished product and has the added benefit of remaining stable for much longer periods of time.

How can 5 minutes at a high temperature pasteurize anything? The temperature is too low for pasteurization, and 5 minutes won't heat anything more than the very surface of the food to any significant temperature.

[SilverSolder]

Perhaps it "does something" to surface microbes (e.g. from storing/handling the food)?

[langwadt]

I have a chart with a lot of SV temps for different meats from a place I used to work at. I'll post it here if anyone wants to give it a look. Let me know if you have questions or need help interpreting it.

(Attachment Link)

That looks interesting.  What's up with the high initial temperatures?

They're for pasteurizing. This was for a large hotel with a massively detailed HACCP plan so everything had to be accounted for. In my experience, the short times that the food items are exposed to the high temps don't change the overall texture in the finished product and has the added benefit of remaining stable for much longer periods of time.

How can 5 minutes at a high temperature pasteurize anything? The temperature is too low for pasteurization, and 5 minutes won't heat anything more than the very surface of the food to any significant temperature.

the "bad stuff"  is on the surface

[SilverSolder]

...Why is there a difference between "Ambient" and "Internal" temperatures?  Aren't they exactly the same, in a functional sous vide setup?

[coppice]

...Why is there a difference between "Ambient" and "Internal" temperatures?  Aren't they exactly the same, in a functional sous vide setup?

Eventually they will match, but do you leave the food in the tank long enough for the temperatures to even out to that very last degree?

[SilverSolder]

...Why is there a difference between "Ambient" and "Internal" temperatures?  Aren't they exactly the same, in a functional sous vide setup?

Eventually they will match, but do you leave the food in the tank long enough for the temperatures to even out to that very last degree?

One of the cool things about the sous vide process, is that the results aren't super sensitive to the length of time things spend in the bath (bounded on either side by "not cooked" and the other by "ridiculously long time").   I have never measured the internal temperature of anything I've sous-vided, I've just assumed the internals would have reached the ambient temperature by the time I took them out - I've experimented with 24 and 48 hour time periods...  it doesn't destroy the food, but it does change the texture over time, perhaps to something you don't like...

I can see, though, that in a restaurant environment you want to know the earliest you can take them out, and also the latest you can leave them for reasons of hygiene as well as food quality considerations.

[coppice]

have never measured the internal temperature of anything I've sous-vided, I've just assumed the internals would have reached the ambient temperature by the time I took them out - I've experimented with 24 and 48 hour time periods...  it doesn't destroy the food, but it does change the texture over time, perhaps to something you don't like...

Cook times are not critical, but you can't just cook and cook. The sensitivity to cooking times depends on the thing you are cooking. Some things are happy with massively over long cook times. Others are pretty much destroyed, usually by falling to pieces, if you give them more than an hour or two beyond the optimal cooking time.

[hvna]

...Why is there a difference between "Ambient" and "Internal" temperatures?  Aren't they exactly the same, in a functional sous vide setup?

Eventually they will match, but do you leave the food in the tank long enough for the temperatures to even out to that very last degree?

One of the cool things about the sous vide process, is that the results aren't super sensitive to the length of time things spend in the bath (bounded on either side by "not cooked" and the other by "ridiculously long time").   I have never measured the internal temperature of anything I've sous-vided, I've just assumed the internals would have reached the ambient temperature by the time I took them out - I've experimented with 24 and 48 hour time periods...  it doesn't destroy the food, but it does change the texture over time, perhaps to something you don't like...

I can see, though, that in a restaurant environment you want to know the earliest you can take them out, and also the latest you can leave them for reasons of hygiene as well as food quality considerations.

The real key is consistency. Standardized times and temps are purely so the product is consistent. The place wasn't the type to worry about speed, there was a very large staff and I worked in a dedicated protein processing team, and therefore never worried about speed, only quality.

[hvna]

...Why is there a difference between "Ambient" and "Internal" temperatures?  Aren't they exactly the same, in a functional sous vide setup?

No. Although in a small household setup, you're probably only cooking one or two small steaks, this list was written with large cuts of meat (whole striploins, tenderloins, racks) in mind, and therefore one or two degrees can take hours to reach.

[SilverSolder]

...Why is there a difference between "Ambient" and "Internal" temperatures?  Aren't they exactly the same, in a functional sous vide setup?

No. Although in a small household setup, you're probably only cooking one or two small steaks, this list was written with large cuts of meat (whole striploins, tenderloins, racks) in mind, and therefore one or two degrees can take hours to reach.

So in a professional environment, you would actually stick probes into the center of the meat too?  -  I guess that's the only way to be sure it gets cooked through...

[coppice]

So in a professional environment, you would actually stick probes into the center of the meat too?  -  I guess that's the only way to be sure it gets cooked through...

That would puncture the vacuum sealed bag. The temperatures are tightly controlled, so time is all you need to get consistent results.

[SilverSolder]

So in a professional environment, you would actually stick probes into the center of the meat too?  -  I guess that's the only way to be sure it gets cooked through...

That would puncture the vacuum sealed bag. The temperatures are tightly controlled, so time is all you need to get consistent results.

The shape of the object, and the temperature it has when inserted, seem difficult to control to get the core within 2C just based on time.

[hvna]

So in a professional environment, you would actually stick probes into the center of the meat too?  -  I guess that's the only way to be sure it gets cooked through...

That would puncture the vacuum sealed bag. The temperatures are tightly controlled, so time is all you need to get consistent results.

We would actually puncture the bag. We would use thermocouples with extremely small thermometer needles. You place a small piece of insulating foam in the sealed bag, a strip of duct tape over top, and then puncture the bag through the foam. Duct tape over the top of the needle as well. Think of a doctor putting an IV in, similar idea.

[SilverSolder]

I have always thought that the "vacuum" inside the bag is of secondary importance compared to temperature control.

I've successfully sous-vided stuff inside glass jars, etc. - no vacuum in sight!

[Marco]

I think there's an interesting alternative to sous vide now. Miele is selling dielectric heating ovens, because of the high penetration depth this should be able to get single serving boneless pieces of meat to a consistent temperature much faster than sous vide, still without overcooking the edges.

I'm not paying 8000 Euros to play with it, but it's still amazing they were able to put dielectric heating in a consumer device.

[SilverSolder]

That sounds interesting, so you are essentially running an electric current through the item to be heated?

[Marco]

They put a couple kV between two insulated plates opposite the food at 6.78 or 13.56 MHz (I can hear the HAM's groan). Displacement currents heat the food.