ATMEL Vs Microchip war is over.... Microchip will acquire ATMEL

[Moondeck]

Why not use the SDCC for 8 bit PICs? Its free. Its linux-compatible. Its great. And mips-gcc for PIC32?

[dannyf]

I tried sdcc for stm8 awhile back. It produces really bulky code as it does trim unused functions in the linked, making it impossible to use for my development approach.

I'm quite happy with xc8/picc and xc16/c30, in both free and pro modes. Earlier copies of xc8 was not that great in producing tight code but the newer ones are much better, better than picc std and very close to picc pro.

Ç30 and xc16 have always been top notch in my experience.

[uncle_bob]

Hi

A lot of the difference in tools revolves around things like profiling capabilities. If you have a regulatory need to do that (it's the law) then your are going to do a lot of it ....

Count yourself lucky (I am) if that does not make any sense to you. It's can be a major headache for those that it does apply to.

Bob

[technix]

When I went to download an update for Atmel Studio, a news post is on Atmel's website: Microchip acquiring Atmel.

So what is your view on this? Afterthis acruision Microchip will have several sets of competing products: AVR vs PIC, AVR32 vs ARM vs PIC32, something probably will have to be dropped.

[pascal_sweden]

I just read the news about the acquisition in this thread.
Didn't know about it until just now.

Hopefully they will keep the name Atmel, as I like it better than Microchip.

Actually I was surprised that Microchip is so much bigger than Atmel. I thought they were in the same league.

Pity, that it isn't the other way around. Atmel is a better company, and a better name as well

[uncle_bob]

I just read the news about the acquisition in this thread.
Didn't know about it until just now.

Hopefully they will keep the name Atmel, as I like it better than Microchip.

Actually I was surprised that Microchip is so much bigger than Atmel. I thought they were in the same league.

Pity, that it isn't the other way around. Atmel is a better company, and a better name as well

Hi

Based on the other Microchip "conquests" over the years.... the Atmel name is gone as is any Atmel specific approach to business. If there is something you want / need to get from them, grab it in the next couple of years. It will take a while for all of the changes to ripple through to the edges of the new empire.

Bob

[Simon]

Atmel have nice products, thewy bloody well better not get rid of them. The AVR core IS faster than the PIC one and to ditch it would be very bad form. Microchip also make lots of other chips and are bigger, they make one of the most popular CAN controllers, nice cheap ADC's mosfets drivers, all sorts of things whereas atmel just does micro controllers. I hope microchip don't turn into another TE.

[Wolfram.Chrome]

Why not use the SDCC for 8 bit PICs? Its free. Its linux-compatible. Its great. And mips-gcc for PIC32?

the most smartest thing i ever read on this thread 

[uncle_bob]

Atmel have nice products, thewy bloody well better not get rid of them. The AVR core IS faster than the PIC one and to ditch it would be very bad form. Microchip also make lots of other chips and are bigger, they make one of the most popular CAN controllers, nice cheap ADC's mosfets drivers, all sorts of things whereas atmel just does micro controllers. I hope microchip don't turn into another TE.

Hi

If you are expecting them to drop the PIC core and go with Atmel .... not a good bet. They already have a few more cores than make sense so support for something is going to drop out of the mix. That's the only way to make the finance guys happy.

Not arguing the merits of the cores at all, only the inevitability of how these things always turn out. The "why" behind that is always the same.

Bob

[Simon]

That is my fear, and all they will do is kill atmel, because I for one will not use a PIC, I refuse to use a device that requires a certain pin to be held to ground in order for it to be programmed because of a known silicone bug that is poorly documented. That is called a shit product. I and I am sure many others will just move onto something that is not AVR or PIC, well done microchip, if you can't make a better product, you kill theirs!

[Karel]

..., well done microchip, if you can't make a better product, you kill theirs!

If Atmel products are so much better, why couldn't they compete? It's not that Microchip has a monopoly or so.
On the contrary, Arduino choose for Atmel which was good publicity for Atmel.
So, the question remains, what is the reason that Atmel is much smaller than Microchip?

They lost us because of their bad software tools, particularly Atmel studio and their Linux support for their programmers.

[Simon]

Well everyone will have different requirements. for me microchip was a nuisance. our subcontractor codes a project, but we need to be able to change variables, but then we can't compile the code because it needs a £1000 compiler. Atmel does not have this problem for me. People will have their choices and not always based on what is best in one respect. I know a motor driver designer that uses PIC but he has problems with speed of the processor making all the calculations he needs. I guess the choice for him is historic but if he used AVR he would have a bit more headroom.

for me it's ease of use. not that I have looked at a microchip datasheet recently but the AVR ones are easy to understand and I don't get caught by stupid silicone bugs that can ruin my design.

A silicone bug like having to pull one pin low that has nothing to do with programming when you program should be made clear at the start of the datasheet, not hidden in a seperate document.

On the other had atmel are terrible at their PR and their youtube stuff is a joke, as is their flagship forum AVR freaks.

[Karel]

Well everyone will have different requirements. for me microchip was a nuisance. our subcontractor codes a project, but we need to be able to change variables, but then we can't compile the code because it needs a £1000 compiler. Atmel does not have this problem for me. People will have their choices and not always based on what is best in one respect. I know a motor driver designer that uses PIC but he has problems with speed of the processor making all the calculations he needs. I guess the choice for him is historic but if he used AVR he would have a bit more headroom.

for me it's ease of use. not that I have looked at a microchip datasheet recently but the AVR ones are easy to understand and I don't get caught by stupid silicone bugs that can ruin my design.

A silicone bug like having to pull one pin low that has nothing to do with programming when you program should be made clear at the start of the datasheet, not hidden in a seperate document.

On the other had atmel are terrible at their PR and their youtube stuff is a joke, as is their flagship forum AVR freaks.

Still, the question remains, what is the reason that Atmel is much smaller than Microchip?

[westfw]

what is the reason that Atmel is much smaller than Microchip?

They're not THAT much smaller.  $1.26B in revenue vs $2.16B; Microchip has a much broader product line (including Analog and power supply chips, plus things from more recent acquisitions.  Microchip has historically been MUCH more profitable, though.  I would imagine that's the sort of thing that you look for when you're buying companies "They have good products and sales, but they're managing to waste money doing XX badly, and WE do XX well!"

I have not observed Microchip discontinuing product lines from their acquisitions - they're selling 8051s, after all!

[Karel]

Microchip has historically been MUCH more profitable, though.

How's that possible if Atmel is supposed to be "better"? (which I don't believe)

[KL27x]

^Profitability of the company has little to do with how good the product is, as far as an engineer is concerned.

I refuse to use a device that requires a certain pin to be held to ground in order for it to be programmed because of a known silicone bug that is poorly documented.

I vaguely recall this. Can you remind me which device this is? This seems like it happened 5+ years ago on a device that is probably not even relevant, anymore.

I was not aware that microchip was known for being particularly bad with errata. I have heard this complaint about AVR, too. 

[dannyf]

"what is the reason that Atmel is much smaller than Microchip?"

Atmel is much newer vs microchip. Look at the revenue growth, margins, and asp on comparable products.

Microchip needs acquisitions to be relevant. Atmel doesn't.

[Simon]

^Profitability of the company has little to do with how good the product is, as far as an engineer is concerned.

I refuse to use a device that requires a certain pin to be held to ground in order for it to be programmed because of a known silicone bug that is poorly documented.

I vaguely recall this. Can you remind me which device this is? This seems like it happened 5+ years ago on a device that is probably not even relevant, anymore.

I was not aware that microchip was known for being particularly bad with errata. I have heard this complaint about AVR, too. 

16F883

[Karel]

Microchip needs acquisitions to be relevant. Atmel doesn't.

The acquisition effectively made Atmel irrelevant.

[Simon]

Microchip needs acquisitions to be relevant. Atmel doesn't.

The acquisition effectively made Atmel irrelevant.

except lots of us want to use their products. Like i said hopefully Microchip does not tern into another TE. Buying the competition to make them irrelevant and discontinue their products is basically admitting your own could not compete.

[coppice]

Atmel is much newer vs microchip.

Atmel started in 1984. Microchip was founded in 1987, although it did have a previous history as General Instruments Microcircuits, and the PIC dates back to 1970s Scotland. Age doesn't really differentiate them much.

[Karel]

Microchip needs acquisitions to be relevant. Atmel doesn't.

The acquisition effectively made Atmel irrelevant.

except lots of us want to use their products.

Apparently, more people want to use Microchip products.

Like i said hopefully Microchip does not tern into another TE.

I believe take overs like this are bad in general (also if it should be the other way around). We need choice & competition.

Buying the competition to make them irrelevant and discontinue their products is basically admitting your own could not compete.

That depends on how you look at it. The fact that Atmel has been taken over, effectively means that they lost the competition.

Btw, I like both Atmel and Microchip mcu's. It's just that monstrous Atmel studio that chased us away.

[Eric_the_EE]

1. I'm very curious about future product lines. What will happen to my PIC24s and my ATxmegas?
2. Microchip Support >>> Atmel Support. I have always very much appreciated the clarity in Microchip's application notes and other supporting docs. I've found Atmel's support to be rather confusing in comparison. I think this merger could potentially improve documentation for Atmel devices.
3. Future IDE? Will there be a new master IDE or will MPLAB products just start supporting Atmel devices?

[Philfreeze]

I hope they will keep Atmel Studio. While I personally use Atom.io for everything I much prefer visual studio over netbeans. I just can't stand the buggyness of netbeans. The plus side is of course that is does support Linux unlike visual studio (even though this should change in the next two years).

[Simon]

Buying the competition to make them irrelevant and discontinue their products is basically admitting your own could not compete.

That depends on how you look at it. The fact that Atmel has been taken over, effectively means that they lost the competition.

It depends on which competition we are talking about. Everything in this world is measured against its monetary value. Better is not always cheaper this is a problem I have at work all the time. I'm having to do things badly because short-term it's cheaper. The fact that microchip have more dough than Atmel says nothing at all about the products themselves. As has been said above a number of times microchip have a much wider range of products if I needed to use a can controller it would be a microchip one. I have already bought a nice (well on paper anyway) ADC for not much money made by microchip. I'm currently looking at MOSFET gate drivers and guess what I found a nice microchip product none of these are products that have a processing core in them and I'm sure they make up a large portion of microchips market. If Atmel is worth only half microchip then I would say that they are shifting at least as many microcontrollers if not more. The fact that microchip have more money than Atmel has nothing to do with who is better or not.