New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope

[alsetalokin4017]

New forum member here... just got my scope two days ago. UPS just dropped it off on the front porch... of the vacant house next door! It's a miracle that I found it before some of the local kids did. This, in spite of it being correctly addressed, our house numbers easily visible from the street, and "signature required" supposedly specified from the shipping end.
 
Imagine my chagrin when I checked the UPS tracking site and saw "Delivered".... when there's nothing delivered! On a hunch I went out to the street and looked around... and saw the boxes on the porch of the vacant house next door. Facepalm!! We filed a complaint with UPS Customer Disservice but what are you gonna do?

At any rate... it's here, working well. I've been checking it out over the past two days running it continuously. I'm very pleased with it so far... but I found a minor error, started a new thread to discuss that, please check it out.

It also seized up on me once, while I was setting cursors. It still showed a live waveform capture but would not respond to any buttonpresses or knobs at all. Fixed by power-cycling. But this caused me to lose the setup, since I had "Default" set on the Utility>System>Power Set option, instead of "Last". So I recommend changing this to "Last", since it's easier to change an existing setup than it is to restore a complicated lost one when powering on. 

Hasn't happened again, thank goodness.

Fan noise is not nearly as bad as you lot made me expect! I even bought a replacement Fractal Design fan for it, anticipating some kind of vacuum-cleaner whine from the stock fan.. but it's not even as loud as my computer! So the replacement fan is in the wings, I won't install it until the other one starts whining or something. Probes seem OK too, I don't use 1x much so haven't found any problems with the switches, the springclips all work fine and I like the overall feel and long cables on them.

This unit is from "new production", the recent containerload delivered to TEquipment.
FW 00.04.02.SP4
Board 0.1.1
Unlocked with key from Riglol zipfile Linux command-line keygen, compiled for my system, no problem whatsoever.

[elgonzo]

Imagine my chagrin when I checked the UPS tracking site and saw "Delivered".... when there's nothing delivered! On a hunch I went out to the street and looked around... and saw the boxes on the porch of the vacant house next door. Facepalm!! We filed a complaint with UPS Customer Disservice but what are you gonna do?

Pick up you box secretly and unobserved, and claim that the package has not been delivered. UPS has nothing to confirm that they delivered the package to you or your neighbors (unless they go criminal and copy your signature you made for a previous delivery). Let the sender and UPS sort out the mess. If they do these shitty things, feel free to exploit it...

[alsetalokin4017]

Heh...  I like the way you think! Unfortunately my evil plans always backfire... with my luck I'd be observed by the little old lady down the street peering through her curtains, and get arrested for stealing my own oscilloscope!

[David_AVD]

Fan noise is not nearly as bad as you lot made me expect! I even bought a replacement Fractal Design fan for it, anticipating some kind of vacuum-cleaner whine from the stock fan.. but it's not even as loud as my computer!

Exactly.  I guess some people are using them in super quiet environments.  Sure it's noticeable, but hardly loud.   

[Hankus]

Just received my DS1054z this past Wednesday, and been following this thread for some time now.  It's good to know that this scope is such a good value that the only thing people have to complain about is the fan which is not nearly as loud as my DS1102E.  BTW System Info currently states I have a DS1104z thanks to yall. 

[dannyf]

feel free to exploit it.

Wow!

Just how low can some people go?

[Jakelin]

This has taken me out of lurker land.  Would it possible for me to get a code too?  About to pull the trigger and pick one of these up!

PM Sent. Enjoy.

Thank you so much ManicMaurice!

[ManicMaurice]

feel free to exploit it.

Wow!

Just how low can some people go?

I agree. Two wrongs don't make a right.

And now back to the topic, Rigol DS1054Z. 

[alsetalokin4017]

I think he was just kidding... maybe. But I hate to think what might have happened if the UPS driver was "off-by-two" instead of just one, or if I hadn't gone out to look within minutes of the scope being dumped at the vacant house.  Filing a complaint with Customer Service was the right thing to do, maybe the drivers will get some kind of message. Oh well.

Yes, back to the DS1054z. I'm not getting much action on the thread I started about the minor error I think I've found so I'll repost it here:

When the CH1 "units" are set to "A" for amps, and the CH2 "units" are set to "V" for volts, and the Math is set to do CH1xCH2, the Offset and Scale come up automatically correctly in "W" units for Watts. But this "W" unit is not passed on to the Measurements, neither selected from the LH screen menus or in the All Measure table. These units stay in whatever you've put in for the CH1 units, in my case "A". This seems like a "fail" in the software. I hope some other users can check my work to see if this is happening on all the scopes, and if so, I hope that it can be put on the list for Rigol to correct with the next firmware revision.
Please see the scopeshots below.

[Howardlong]

While I'm sure it's a bug/unimplemented feature, I am not sure how many people actually spend time setting up their scopes to this level. I may be wrong, but certainly I've never been bothered to do this on any scope I've had, my scope setups tend to be very dynamic in nature, having to spend time configuring the channel annotations every time I moved a probe would be painful.

I do sometimes set up PC-based logic analysers with annotated channels, but it is much easier as you have a keyboard.

Maybe in a static demonstration I could see this being useful on a scope, but for day to day probing I wouldn't bother.

[alsetalokin4017]

While I'm sure it's a bug/unimplemented feature, I am not sure how many people actually spend time setting up their scopes to this level. I may be wrong, but certainly I've never been bothered to do this on any scope I've had, my scope setups tend to be very dynamic in nature, having to spend time configuring the channel annotations every time I moved a probe would be painful.

I do sometimes set up PC-based logic analysers with annotated channels, but it is much easier as you have a keyboard.

Maybe in a static demonstration I could see this being useful on a scope, but for day to day probing I wouldn't bother.

This has nothing to do with "Annotating" the channels, that is, assigning the little labels on the left side of the screen. It is a problem with the way the scope handles the _units_ of the channels while doing math and reporting the results of math. Since I got this scope primarily because I do need to do power and energy computations I want it to work correctly in that regard.

It's not a "bug" when an instrument reports "A" for Amps when it should be saying "W" for Watts... it's an _error_. Perhaps you don't see it that way, and that's your privilege, I suppose. What if the numerical value was off by, say, 10 percent? Would that be a "bug"?

You set the "units" of the channels simply by selecting the channel, and looking at the bottom menu item on the first page, where it says "Unit". Setting an "annotation", that is, the Label of the channel, is the first item on the second page and requires fiddling with the "keyboard" and I agree, often it is not worth the effort. However, it's easy to store setups (Storage>Storage>Setups>Save>select Local Disk>New File>enter filename>OK) which saves the entire setup including channel labels, for future use by easy recall. Why have a feature at all (the ability to select the Units (not just labelling) of the channel) if it's not going to be implemented properly?

This, to me, is a much bigger deal than the "noisy fan" issue, which I find to be a non-issue altogether since mine isn't nearly as loud as, say, the computer or other fans that are running in my lab.

[alsetalokin4017]

And, after all of that, I think my scope may have an actual hardware problem that might make me have to return it, if it doesn't straighten itself out.

There is definitely something wrong with CH4, and I'd like other owner/users to check their scopes to see if they have these problems too.

When any two of the other channels are turned on, even if no signal is being applied to them, CH4 gets a 1 volt or greater positive offset when in 5v/div or greater vertical scale. There's a relay that clicks when going from 2v/div to higher values, and when this relay clicks the offset hits. But only if two of the other channels are on. This happens whether CH4 is in AC or DC input coupling. But sometimes (rarely) it doesn't happen, seems almost OK but is noisier than the other channels, then after several seconds it will "jump" to the +1V offset. This is a real drag because the 5V/div setting is used a lot (by me anyhow) and a 20 percent positive offset error is unacceptable. It's fine at settings of 2V/div or less -- except see below.

Also, when no inputs to anything are plugged in, and CH4 is set to 10mV/div (the most sensitive setting with 10x probe attenuation selected) and AC-coupled input is selected, the channel jumps to _one full division__ of negative offset. Sometimes even more. Over 10mV of negative offset in AC coupled, in the 10mV/div range on CH4 !! This is regardless of whether other channels are on or not, it's a steady thing and doesn't matter what other settings are in use. And of course it is still there when an actual input is fed to the channel.

These problems are not due to probes or signals, they can be demonstrated with nothing connected to the scope at all.

The other three channels are fairly well behaved, there are slight offsets in certain conditions but acceptably small. The CH4 behaviour seems to indicate some kind of hardware problem, _I think_. I've tried self-calibration several times, am just about to test after Yet Another self-calibrate (it takes about 18 minutes for the self-cal routine to run).

I hate returning stuff. Especially after the long wait and the tension of UPS "delivery".  I wonder if I should just "suck it up" and consider CH4 unreliable in certain conditions. One (even when the one is ME) hardly ever needs 4 channels anyway ... but GRRRRRRR.....

ETA: OK, after the latest self-calibrate run, the CH4 set at 5V/div now has about a 3/4 volt _negative_ offset when DC coupled, and a 2 1/2 volt negative error when AC coupled, and is noisier than the other channels.

Scopeshot below shows all probes connected to the scope's Calibrator output. CH1 and CH2 are DC-coupled, CH3 and CH4 are AC-coupled. Note the negative offset of the CH4 trace.  CH3 is about right. Acquire mode "Average" with 2 averages selected, auto memory depth.

ETA2: And now, with no inputs (probes unplugged) and channels set to 10 mV/div, CH1 and 2 DC coupled, CH3 and 4 AC coupled, I get _30 mV_ of negative offset and lots of noise on CH4. See the second screenshot below. All four channels are set to have baseline at the center of the screen. There is definitely something wrong somewhere.

[ebastler]

It's not a "bug" when an instrument reports "A" for Amps when it should be saying "W" for Watts... it's an _error_. Perhaps you don't see it that way, and that's your privilege, I suppose. What if the numerical value was off by, say, 10 percent? Would that be a "bug"?

The fine points of the English language may escape me here -- in a piece of software, "bug" and "error" are the same to me...

There is a thread on bugs (errors?) and suggestions for the DS1000Z series: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-ds1000z-series-%28ds1054z-ds1074z-ds1104z-and-s-models%29-bugswish-list/, which should be a good place to post your issues. Personally, I share Howard's feeling that this is of limited significance, because I never use the unit settings anyway.

[alsetalokin4017]

It's not a "bug" when an instrument reports "A" for Amps when it should be saying "W" for Watts... it's an _error_. Perhaps you don't see it that way, and that's your privilege, I suppose. What if the numerical value was off by, say, 10 percent? Would that be a "bug"?

The fine points of the English language may escape me here -- in a piece of software, "bug" and "error" are the same to me...

There is a thread on bugs (errors?) and suggestions for the DS1000Z series: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-ds1000z-series-%28ds1054z-ds1074z-ds1104z-and-s-models%29-bugswish-list/, which should be a good place to post your issues. Personally, I share Howard's feeling that this is of limited significance, because I never use the unit settings anyway.

Well, I must say I am flabbergasted. I was under the impression that test instruments were supposed to work correctly _whether a particular user_ uses a particular feature, or not!  You never use the unit settings anyway-- that, to me, indicates that you either don't do current or power measurements, or you are setting your oscilloscope incorrectly when you do!

Thank you for telling me about the "bug" thread, I'll post this "bug" there now, since I am quite sure that at least _some_ users do use the "Unit" setting feature and would like the Measurements and All Measure table to report _correct units_ of the measurements they indicate.

[Howardlong]

alsetalokin4017:

I am not sure the value of getting upset about the semantics of whether a bug is an error or not. To me a bug is an error in the programming, I am not sure where the difference lies in your understanding and mine.

Many of us do make current and power measurements, on a very regular basis, it's just that we don't feel we need a scope to show "W" or "A" when we can do that in our heads. Setting up the scope to do that is just a chore in my view. In the Neanderthal world before that functionality was generally available on a scope at this level, say two years ago, we had to use our heads for this. In the years before that, the same went for scope probes without readout and having no means of adjusting the V/div. I understand that this functionality might be important to you, and yes it is nice to have an instrument that works 100% all the time, but sometimes regrettably life's not like that. Frankly I am impressed that if you have V on Ch1 and A on Ch2, it is smart enough to automatically give W on a Math Ch1 x Ch2 trace. My Agilent scope just says "VA" or "AV" depending on the order the channels are multiplied. What is good is that we are able to identify when something's not right, and we can work out what that is and whether we can work around it.

By the way, my scope doesn't show your discrepancies. Can you confirm that you re-cal'd without the probes connected at the BNCs?



Please consider that we don't sit here spending our spare time sending replies on eevblog with the aim of irritating you. You were complaining about not having had responses from a thread you opened, and now regretfully, I responded. We're actually trying to help and possibly sometimes try to put things into perspective. Please bear that in mind when posting, you may find that not only do you benefit more from the responses, you'll find you may also achieve more help from more people that way. Nobody, I assume you included, likes getting their head bitten off when they've been trying to help. If you think the Rigol is bad, please don't even think about purchasing a Hantek for I fear you may spontaneously combust!

We are trying to help.

[alsetalokin4017]

@Howardlong: Thank you for testing the AC offset issue on your scope. It looks like you do have a small offset but that would be acceptable. Yes, I definitely ran calibrations with the scope well warmed up (hours of running) and with nothing whatever connected to any inputs.

My problem now seems to be intermittent. The CH4 offset issue comes and goes, with some dramatic screen glitches on the CH4 trace. I think there is definitely some hardware problem. Sometimes it settles down and is well behaved; just now I'm watching it with nothing plugged into any inputs, all channels at 5V/div DC-coupled,  and the CH4 trace will sometime start glitching horribly, full-screen noise; by rotating the V/div knob rapidly to 100V and back down, or between 2v and 5v/div  I can get it to settle down and be stable again... Looks like I'm going to have to get an RMI authorization and return it under warranty. More UPS adventures....

I apologise for my frustration in earlier posts. I've been waiting for this scope for a long time and by and large it's wonderful, but this CH4 problem has really got my goat.

I hope nobody is going to tell me "Well, I don't use CH4 so it's not really a problem, forget about it."
LOL... where's the "wink" smiley?

(I see that your scope has the logic analyzer and the signal source, so it's not a DS1054z... presumably you bought it because you wanted those features and you depend on them to work correctly... I've been "doing it in my head" for many years using analog scopes....kind of disappointing that a DSO also makes me "do it in my head"...)
Insert another "winky" smiley here...

[bingo600]

I've just ordered one from Batronix , hope to get it at end of April.

/Bingo

[Armxnian]

Can someone send me the discount code for tequipment? Thanks

[Howardlong]

I've just ordered one from Batronix , hope to get it at end of April.

When i get it, and i want to "enhance it"    , is that best done with the original fw ?
Or should i upgrade (if possible) to the latest fw first.

/Bingo

Batronix don't seem to update firmware in my experience so you get what's been factory shipped. Two other Rigol suppliers I've used do open the box up and update the firmware as necesary. However, if it's right off the boat I suspect it'll have a very recent firmware on it anyway.

The reason I mention this is that on one DS1074Z-S I bought from Batronix it had oldish firmware that didn't accept SCPI option installs. Updating to the latest firmware fixed that.

I'd download the current firmware just in case it disappears. That has the infamous jitter fault resolved at least.

[Corporate666]

Pick up you box secretly and unobserved, and claim that the package has not been delivered. UPS has nothing to confirm that they delivered the package to you or your neighbors (unless they go criminal and copy your signature you made for a previous delivery). Let the sender and UPS sort out the mess. If they do these shitty things, feel free to exploit it...

Yeah, really stupid idea.  I ship a lot with UPS and I occasionally have had a customer do this kind of stuff.

First off, it's theft.  It's not "being sly", it's outright fraud.  And in some places, it's a felony.  To me, it's not very intelligent to be a criminal, but especially not to make yourself a felon over a $400 oscilloscope. 

When you claim to UPS that a package was not delivered, they don't just pay out and leave it at that.  The driver is sent back to talk to you.  He will say "Oh, I left it at this address next door - you didn't get it?".  So it's not a crime that you get away with just with a phone call... you'll have to lie to the UPS's guy's face.  UPS will then contact the police who will most likely come out and take a report and perhaps ask a neighbor or two if they saw anything.  You best hope they don't see the scope in your house or nobody sees the box being thrown out, etc, etc. 

Not to mention, when you do this to UPS, your address is marked as "do not leave packages" *forever*.  Which means that every...single...package you ever get will need an adult signature.  You cannot sign the slip and leave it on your door.  You cannot ever get them to leave packages ever again.  You will have to either be home or 100% of the time go to the UPS depot, show ID, and pick up your stuff.

Heh...  I like the way you think! Unfortunately my evil plans always backfire... with my luck I'd be observed by the little old lady down the street peering through her curtains, and get arrested for stealing my own oscilloscope!

Hopefully I'll remember "I like the way you think!" if you ever have a post about being scammed, etc.

[DanielS]

My problem now seems to be intermittent. The CH4 offset issue comes and goes, with some dramatic screen glitches on the CH4 trace.

Check your probe for an intermittent X1/X10 switch - out of my two DS1054Z, I have three probes with chronic switch issues on the X1 position and two or three more I wouldn't trust either.

As for the offsets, the channel offsets on both of my scopes jump around depending on which channel combination is enabled and some channels drift by as much as 2/5th of a division over time. Some people have said offsets can even vary depending on the order channels are enabled but I have not noticed that specific quirk on mine.

[Armxnian]

Can someone send me the discount code for tequipment? Thanks

Either use the tequipment chat on Monday, or ask in the proper thread, don't clutter this one!

Your useless post cluttered this thread more than had you just pm'd me 

[paulie]

Regarding clutter why are people being forced to beg for the secret code? This is supposedly available to all EEvblogers so why the intrigue? It might be better to simply post the code rather than have everybody jump through hoops. I suppose it's because those with "power" enjoy making noobs dance.

[edavid]

Regarding clutter why are people being forced to beg for the secret code? This is supposedly available to all EEvblogers so why the intrigue? It might be better to simply post the code rather than have everybody jump through hoops. I suppose it's because those with "power" enjoy making noobs dance.

It has been posted a few times, but Evan of Tequipment asked people not to post it again.

You only need it if you want to order when Tequipment is closed... which is kind of pointless since they won't process the order until they're open again.

[Armxnian]

Regarding clutter why are people being forced to beg for the secret code? This is supposedly available to all EEvblogers so why the intrigue? It might be better to simply post the code rather than have everybody jump through hoops. I suppose it's because those with "power" enjoy making noobs dance.

It has been posted a few times, but Evan of Tequipment asked people not to post it again.

You only need it if you want to order when Tequipment is closed... which is kind of pointless since they won't process the order until they're open again.

Where has it been posted? The first page of this thread has someone asking for the code, and so does the last...