The Stupids Want To Move To Daveland

[EEVblog]

Having said that, I do believe in the right to keep and bear arms.  We live in a dangerous society.  Not because of weapons, but because of MANY factors:  the decaying family structure, loss of jobs and a poor economy, attitudes of entitlement, etc.  Individuals absolutely have the right to use deadly force to protect themselves and their families from the threat of deadly violence, especially when inside their own homes.

You forgot one massive and obvious thing from that list of factors, the self perpetuating nature of guns themselves.

Dave.

[Monkeh]

There's actually little difference, if there's a gun, there's a gun. No gun = no risk. A point a lot of gun people don't understand.

If only. If someone is going to snap, they'll snap. The possession of a firearm doesn't change that.

But I understand: You only see a firearm as a weapon. That's fine, be ignorant and naive. I'll continue with my sport and you won't even know I'm doing it, because I really can't be practicing competitive shooting, it doesn't exist.

[EEVblog]

But I understand: You only see a firearm as a weapon. That's fine, be ignorant and naive. I'll continue with my sport and you won't even know I'm doing it, because I really can't be practicing competitive shooting, it doesn't exist.

Monkeh, stop being so defensive about your sport when talking about gun control.
The majority of advocates of gun control would not want you to stop playing your sport and playing with guns, they just want them off the streets, out of homes, and out of the countries cultural mindset in general as defensive weapon or "right".
I won't put words in 8086's mouth, but this is what people usually talk about when they talk about gun control. They would be happy for you to go use them legally in a  controlled environment. And if you have special needs, like being a serious sport shooter and living out in the sticks, then allow it on a strict case by case basis.

Dave.

[Monkeh]

But I understand: You only see a firearm as a weapon. That's fine, be ignorant and naive. I'll continue with my sport and you won't even know I'm doing it, because I really can't be practicing competitive shooting, it doesn't exist.

Monkeh, stop being so defensive about your sport when talking about gun control.

Perhaps others could stop being so offensive, then.

The majority of advocates of gun control would not want you to stop playing your sport and playing with guns

Well they've yet to make any attempt to control firearms without doing so, and 8086 apparently refuses to admit shooting sports exist.

they just want them off the streets

Further firearm restrictions in countries which already make carrying firearms illegal do not further this goal.

out of homes, and out of the countries cultural mindset in general as defensive weapon or "right".

They've so far succeeded in the former (by making it infeasible for people to keep them at all) and managed to turn the cultural mindset to firearms being the root of all evil.

[poptones]

Where I live, anyone can carry a gun on the street. You never know what the person next to you is packing.

Amazing, isn't it, that the gun crime here is relatively low?

[Uncle Vernon]

Australian States,in general, have had strict gun laws for many years.

Strict in comparison to the USA but it isn't that long ago that gun purchase was an entirely different exercise to gun licencing.

In Western Australia,they had a "gun amnesty" period when I was a kid in the 1950s,where people could bring in unlicensed firearms,& either license them,or have them disposed of.

That situation always existed, it is only in recent years grand-standing politicians created the hoop-la title for what was common sense policing.

In the same state,at least from the 1960s.if you wanted to own & register a Rifle,you needed to have a certificate from a Property owner giving you permission to shoot on his property.

True but own & register was just the legal way, you could legally purchase/acquire a firearm without a licence. Firearm owners (or more specifically firearm users) were expected to be licenced, but there was no automatic linkage.

Of course,if you were a member of a target shooting association,they normally have their own shooting range,so that was covered.

Making membership the easy path to licencing. There was no  lingage between initial justification for use and the actual use a firearm was put to, suffice to say shooting of friends and relative has always been seen in a poor light.

Kangaroo shooting was a popular pastime among some folks.
The country people knew what they were doing,& would go out with a bolt action 0.22" rifle,bag a couple of 'roos & take them home to eat.

Idiots from the city would load up their cars with grog & firearms,"go bush" & shoot up roadside signs & the like,whilst driving drunk.
It never occurred to them that they were shooting into peoples farms,endangering their livestock,& families.
All completely illegal,but they got away with it if the farmer didn't catch them,or they didn't drive into a tree.

Which gets to the lunacy of the situation, I'm not some nutjob PETA advocate and have had to drop many roos, foxes etc at different times, it's a job that has to be done. How anyone sane can believe this particularly nasty task is a "popular pastime" beggars belief?
And I can assure you the bush (country) has it's fair share of home bred idiots too.

This sort of behaviour made farmers very reluctant to let people shoot on their properties,so gun ownership started to drop off in WA & other States with similar laws.

I can assure you without exception  Aussie Property owners do not welcome recreational shooters no matter how much of a vermin problem they have. It's the landholders that have to clean up the mess when the alco-shoot brigade have had their fun.

At least in WA,illegal firearms were fairly rare,& most gun injuries & deaths were from legal rifles.

I would dispute that. While I do not see the current laws as a panacea they have at least gone some way towards reducing the number of firearms laying about with potential for misuse.

Except among serious Sporting Shooters,gun ownership fell away,with an accompanying decrease in firearm injuries.
Queensland stood out among the States with quite easy going gun laws.

Around the early 1990s,there were reports that gun fanciers in that State were acquiring  large numbers of modern
semi-automatic weapons,including comments from various senior Law Enforcement people.

And of course none of those weapons ever crossed state borders to places they had been illegal for decades?

Ultimately,though,the "buyback" was precipitated by a mass shooting in Tasmania,& gun laws around Australia were tightened up at the same time.

The laws that evolved from that event were a good thing the took thousands of unnecessary weapons out of the community. They were however not a cure all for for violence or gun crime. The could never do a thing about drive-by shootings or other gun crime. What they do achieve is reducing the occurrence of drunken panel beaters shooting themselves or their spouse during domestics. The new laws also did well at reducing the numbers of weekend alco-rambos shooting everything that does or does not move generally including themselves and each other.

Guns in Australia were traditionally regarded as "tools"

The were always tools, and just like nail-guns chain and power saws, tractor PTOs and all manner of other tools need to be used sensibly for their intended purpose. I just don't get it with guns, I have a circular saw here that's take your head off without dropping a rev, but unlike for some reason (mainly sanity) there is not some need for every member the small penis set to own one. Thankfully there are no copies of "Saws and Lumber" in the newsagents and no need for anyone to want to fit cabin of their truck with saw racks.

to shoot game animals for food

Yeah I can see the wisdom in less wealthy folk spending thousands on guns, fuel and ammo to acquire some budget pet food. And yeah the misses just loves to supplement the household budget with some lead ridden wildlife of a few Khaleesi afflicted rabbits. Although Gillard and Swan are working hard to recreate the period it is not the 1930's anymore.

protect stock from predators,

A completely legitimate use. Does still beg the question why those without a mob of sheep and a persistent fox or dingo problem would feel the need to own a gun.

for competitive shooting

To each their own I guess, but A game of darts has a similar outcome and is far more appropriate for those who wish to combine booze and targets.

for war

Yeah and for the same reason I have a tank under a tarpaulin in the driveway, and a couple of crates of mortars and commando squad in the tool shed.

& never gained the mystique they enjoy in the USA.

Good thing too! Maybe it was a language thing with much of the population here still trying to work out wtf Rambo said or was on about.

Gun fanciers in North America,for reasons of their own,tend to misrepresent the difference in strictness before & after the "buyback".
We did not go from a USA type system to a "No guns at all".
An already fairly strictly regulated system was tightened up a bit.

I'd argue a somewhat lax system was rightly tightened up unfortunately with the accompanying pedantic legislation. But just like all other things community we need to cater for the lowest common denominators.

Hand guns were never popular here and thankfully are in few hands (legal & illegal), that is a major difference between continents. While there are circumstance a rifle is a dangerous but necessary tool, I am yet to see a purpose for a pistol other than to create personal injury.

There have been several statistic put forward in this thread, the one statistic that is universal in Australia, SA, UK, Canada and the USA is that the person/s most likely to be shot injured and killed by a firearm is the owner and his family.  Just because criminals have them does not make it a good idea for you to have them too

Looking back to the nonsense the OP was laughing about,the young lady had probably read one of the "reports" generated by some right wing halfwit

Or some left-wing propagandist or other driven nutjob.

[perfect_disturbance]

OK wait a second... I'm unnerved by the idea of poptones walking down the street next to me with a gun. Can I rethink my stand on this issue?

[Mechatrommer]

Where I live, anyone can carry a gun on the street. You never know what the person next to you is packing.
Amazing, isn't it, that the gun crime here is relatively low?

imagine what will happen if one villain take out his gun. i imagine there will be alot of stray bullets flying around. and if the crime is really low, whats the need to bring the gun all along? here crime (none gun related) was pretty occasional until police start to setup their camp everywhere. we dont have gun since we were born, crime still occured, i guess its not related to gun or no gun. +1 to ninja school.

[Uncle Vernon]

Where I live, anyone can carry a gun on the street. You never know what the person next to you is packing.

Amazing, isn't it, that the gun crime here is relatively low?

What is less amazing is that the rate of gun injury and death there is comparably high!

If the crooks are packing only absolute numbskulls would think it a good idea to take more weapons to the crime scene?
Think about it? All you are doing is offering criminals a choice of weapon or police a chance to shoot first and ask questions later. Hollywood has a lot to answer for!

[marmad]

Amazing, isn't it, that the gun crime here is relatively low?

It might be, if we knew where here was - and could arrive on an agreed upon definition of what "relatively" meant.

we dont have gun since we were born, crime still occured, i guess its not related to gun or no gun. +1 to ninja school.

Crime is crime - and exists everywhere. Death due to bullets is a different cup of tea.

[EEVblog]

I think everyone's had their fun and their fair suck of the sav in this thread.
I don't want it to appear in the Top 10 thread list like the religion one did, and I do see it going that way, so thread hereby locked.
Thanks for playing.

Dave.