Anyone Else Outraged About 3 Phase?

[electromateria]

Why can't I get any sweet and succulent 3 phase energy wired directly to my house?

The government and corporations are trying to hog all the 3 phase badassery to themselves. Sickening. We need to protest and fight back against this injustice. 

[james_s]

20 years ago I used to wish I had 3 phase, but now I don't care. When I want to run a 3 phase motor I run it on a VFD, and I'd do the same even if I had 3 phase into the house just due to all the other features it gives you. I have no other use for 3 phase power.

[tautech]

No worries getting a 3 phase domestic connection in anything but remote areas in NZ except for the cost. 

[drussell]

Why can't I get any sweet and succulent 3 phase energy wired directly to my house?

The government and corporations are trying to hog all the 3 phase badassery to themselves. Sickening. We need to protest and fight back against this injustice.

You almost certainly could, you just might not like the eye-popping, mind-bendingly high price for installation.  It really usually depends on how physically close a 7200v supply with all three phases is to your location.

In my case, all three phases are available on the second-closest pole to my house, only one house away on the utility right-of-way, so I would just essentially have to pay for the installation of the three transformers and the wiring to the actual house, but that would likely still be a 5-figure dollar amount, and is simply totally unnecessary for anything I do here. 

Why do you needwant three phase?

[Berni]

Well in most of Europe most houses have 3 phase because that is what typically runs down the street on power poles.

If you have single phase then you get bigger main fuses to get the same amount of power out of it, while not having to worry about balancing the load between phases to avoid overloading one of them since there is just one. If you need to run a 3 phase motor, just get a VFD, they are cheap these days.

What is sickening is when an power hungry appliance does not make use of 3 phase and insists on sucking it all out of a single phase. Like for example the heat pump we have heating the house consumes 5kW from a single phase because the VFD inside(for running the 3 phase compressor at various speeds) is only single phase input because PFC is cheaper to do on a single phase. Combined with all the other existing loads in the house this put a lot of strain on that phase, but it was fine since main fuses are not very precise, but then they came up with fancy new smart meters that include a disconnect inside that also trips when phase currents are exceeded in order to protect the main fuses. This smart meter is a lot more precise and so it did trip. Moving some loads to a different phase helped some but it still happened occasionally so we had to pay up to get bigger main fuses.

[tautech]

If you have single phase then you get bigger main fuses to get the same amount of power out of it, while not having to worry about balancing the load between phases to avoid overloading one of them since there is just one.

Bit different here in NZ where any typical connection is 60A, single or 3 phase however business/industrial connections can be several 100A/phase.

Some decades ago our powerco offered a downrated 3 phase option of 20A/phase where line charges (a component of your bill) remained very similar to a single phase connection however you have the benefit of being able to use 3ph equipment. This provided a significant cost saving compared to the standard 3ph 60A supply and so much so the popularity of this offering meant it didn't last long before it was pulled. 

We still have an 'existing use' connection of this type to farm buildings where we have all manner of 3ph equipment although we can't use much of it together without tripping the MCB despite they have all been uprated to D curve motor rated MCB's.

[tautech]

Mine has 3 phase 380V service.

Yes we discovered this after buying a Chinese made 3ph pump after it draws a bit more than labelled current on our 415VAC 3ph. 
They sell these here in NZ thinking they're a direct replacement and suitable for the bit higher voltage here.
Still wondering how long it will last.................

[Keith956]

Well in most of Europe most houses have 3 phase because that is what typically runs down the street on power poles.

Here in the UK you can upgrade to 3 phase and get a 70kVA supply. It typically costs a few £k:

https://www.ukpowernetworks.co.uk/electricity/upgrade-reduce-electricity

[Simon]

Usually 3 phase is delivered to a substation that splits the single phases to different streets. It does not make economic sense to put all 3 phases down every street just in case one person wants it as it adds to the cabling required. No point in the OP going frantic. You want an industrial power supply? move to an industrial location.

[tautech]

Usually 3 phase is delivered to a substation that splits the single phases to different streets. It does not make economic sense to put all 3 phases down every street just in case one person wants it as it adds to the cabling required. No point in the OP going frantic. You want an industrial power supply? move to an industrial location.

Distribution methods vary immensely on where you are in the world. Here in NZ 11KV is the normal HT feedline dropped from 33KV district feeders and where population densities are sufficient a single 11KV 3ph pole mounted transformer might feed a dozen dwellings each with a 60A 230VAC supply. In more urban areas the transformers are ground mounted still feeding 3 phases where domestic loads are shared on each phase to individual dwellings for best transformer load balancing.
In rural areas a 2 phase 11KV pole mounted transformer is often used where only a dwelling or 2 is need be supplied and they are always single phase output. It real remote areas just a single 11KV line is run so only a single phase secondary is possible of which this system is very reliant on a good ground/earth return.

[Warhawk]

Practically every family house in Czechia (where I come from) or in Germany (where I live) has a 3-phase connection. It supplies electric stoves, owens, pumps, woodworking machines etc. My father has even 3-phase DIY electric mowing machine.

[Dubbie]

When I got the electrical re-connected to my new house (demolished the old one) it was only the cost of the extra cable to get 3 phase instead of single phase.
Was about $400 from memory.

[Simon]

If the current network is not set up for it the OP is expecting a 3rd cable to be run quite some distance at some cost to an electricity supplier that knows they will supply him with electricity either way. So yea, if you want it and they can provide it, it will cost you.

When I lived in Italy you only had 3kW, businesses and I think the public could apply for 4.5kW but you paid more for your power for ever more.

[langwadt]

need a few more wires but they can be smaller, pleny of places where everyone has 3 phase

[agehall]

Wait, what?

I guess I'm ignorant but I honestly thought 3-phase was pretty much the universal standard for hooking up a house. I guess I just learned something new here. (again)

[Gyro]

Usually 3 phase is delivered to a substation that splits the single phases to different streets. It does not make economic sense to put all 3 phases down every street just in case one person wants it as it adds to the cabling required. No point in the OP going frantic. You want an industrial power supply? move to an industrial location.

I think you'll find that pretty much all of UK residential streets have a 3-phase supply running along them, whether they're above ground or buried. The odd exception might be a tiny rural group of houses that only justifies a single phase pole mounted transformer.

Buried street cables are 3 phase (and neutral outer sheath) with 2-3 adjacent houses tapped off each phase to balance the load. Ours is on the yellow phase (old colour coding convention).

Where there is above ground distribution, you will either see 4 wires (3 phases + Neutral) or the more modern twisted cable (as shown by Big Clive)...

 

[Jwillis]

Why can't I get any sweet and succulent 3 phase energy wired directly to my house?

The government and corporations are trying to hog all the 3 phase badassery to themselves. Sickening. We need to protest and fight back against this injustice.

 It has a lot to do with zoning of your area and the infrastructure that is in place. Residential areas don't need 3 phase so it's not part of the infrastructure. Why add that extra cost to a zone if 3 phase probably won't be used. I don't know which part of the country your in but there are also City bylaws and Provincial laws that  prevent industrial activity in residential zones. If you live outside a city limit then you should have no problem getting 3 phase installed . Or if you live in an older community like mine that has 3 phase from past industrial services . But even here it's slower being removed because it's not used anymore.

[Simon]

There is a station at the end of my street, the cables run underground, I have two come up near my meter, no idea if there is a third. Just running a third from the road trunking to my house will have a cost that the power distributor will not just bear because I asked.

[Gyro]

That will be one phase and neutral, tapped off the 3 phase in the street (either that or an old defective feed that is disconnected - hard to say without a photo). Yes, they will charge you an arm and a leg to bring the other 2 phases from the street cable (buried, not trunked) onto your property and install  3 phase cable head!

It's actually about the only advantage of the more 'old fashioned' above ground distribution - they can use the IDC connectors that Big Clive shows, without even having to break into and joint the street cable.

[Simon]

We have what 63A per house in the UK? that will do me. I don't need to run anything large enough to want 3 phase.

[Gyro]

Yes, the fuse holder in the DNO's cable head is normally marked 100A, but there's usually a 60A fuse fitted inside it.

EDIT: You can have it upgraded to a 100A service (fuse) at fairly nominal call-out charge if you want to get into multiple power showers and EV charging.

[Alti]

Why can't I get any sweet and succulent 3 phase energy wired directly to my house?

I do not know your case of course.
What I have noticed is that for un-trained the difference in between single phase and three phase supply has nothing to do with higher powers. It is this mystic new high'er voltage that stops most of them from getting closer to 400VAC cabinet. I am not sure how this looks like on a scale of danger but definitely diy home playing with three phase has some additional gotchas included.

You can have it upgraded to a 100A service (fuse) at fairly nominal call-out charge if you want to get into multiple power showers and EV charging.

Energy losses in conductors are proportional to current squared so (100/60)^2 ~ 2.8 raise
So "fairly nominal call-out charge" and they are typically just upgrading fuse?
So either the cables have already been installed grossly oversized or now you are running cables smoking hot.
Upgrading cabling 2.8x is not cheap.

[Gyro]

You can have it upgraded to a 100A service (fuse) at fairly nominal call-out charge if you want to get into multiple power showers and EV charging.

Energy losses in conductors are proportional to current squared so (100/60)^2 ~ 2.8 raise
So "fairly nominal call-out charge" and they are typically just upgrading fuse?
So either the cables have already been installed grossly oversized or now you are running cables smoking hot.
Upgrading cabling 2.8x is not cheap.

The incomer buried cable should be rated for the 100A marked on the DNO (District Network Operator) incoming fuseholder. It might require upgrading of the meter tails if they're not already 25mm². Most modern consumer units are rated for 100A.

The best time to do this sort of thing is when taking up your energy supplier's 'offer' of installing a free Smart Meter. The guy who fitted ours upgraded the tails and fitted a consumer side (after meter) 100A isolator switch for free when I asked him. Suppliers often charge quite a bit to visit site and fit an isolator (which tend to be fitted by default on new-builds). It pays to remember these things when getting a Smart Meter, they have everything on the van.

P.S. OT, but David Savery has a good rant about lack of mains isolator provision in the attached video. Start at 58:30 unless you also want the entertaining rant on worthless EICRs by useless electricians!

[Cerebus]

There is a station at the end of my street, the cables run underground, I have two come up near my meter, no idea if there is a third. Just running a third from the road trunking to my house will have a cost that the power distributor will not just bear because I asked.

Oh, they won't bear the cost, they'll charge you for it. Getting 3 phase installed where there is currently one will entail some digging in the street and between the street and your property to install new [direct burial] cabling. You'll pay a few thousand pounds for the pleasure.

BTW, it's two additional conductors - you've got one phase and neutral, they have to add another two phases. They aren't going to supply just the phases and no neutral. If the two conductors you already have were across two phases, as opposed to phase and neutral, they'd have \$220V \times \sqrt{3} = 380V \$ across them, not the 220V nominal that you're getting.

[Cerebus]

Usually 3 phase is delivered to a substation that splits the single phases to different streets. It does not make economic sense to put all 3 phases down every street just in case one person wants it as it adds to the cabling required. No point in the OP going frantic. You want an industrial power supply? move to an industrial location.

Someone else has noted that it's normal to take the three phases and neutral down the whole street and tap different phases at different points for different building's supplies. It's quite possible that your next door neighbour is on a different phase - something to bear in mind if you're having a party in the garden and someone decides to throw an extension cord over the fence to power the disco lights from the neighbour's mains, while you power the music from your house's mains.

You're missing the fact that the OP is in North America, where a different system prevails. Rather than picking off individual phase+neutral pairs for each property, there's a centre tapped transformer, typically every 1-3 houses (primary connected across two of the three phases), usually on a pole. This supplies two phases at 180º from each other and a neutral. Each phase is nominally 120V with respect to the neutral and 240V with respect to each other. It's normal to bring two phases and a neutral in from the transformer, and bond the neutral to earth at the distribution board. Hefty appliances get a 240V supply, others 120V.

So, three phase is a wholesale change of supply in North America, not just bringing in the missing phases. You'll need a 3 phase transformer in place of the existing two phase.