Was:Siglent new...

[rf-loop]

was...

[rf-loop]

Reserved...

[tautech]

€359 wow ! 
And in the US for $399
https://siglentna.com/digital-oscilloscopes/sds1000x-u/

[rf-loop]

was...

[2N3055]

So they decided to create direct competition to DS1054Z from Rigol, even in price...

[rf-loop]

was...

[Muttley Snickers]

€359 wow ! 
And in the US for $399
https://siglentna.com/digital-oscilloscopes/sds1000x-u/

They are $638.00 down here.   

I also found a quick teaser video.    

[2N3055]

So they decided to create direct competition to DS1054Z from Rigol, even in price...

No, not direct,  they did not drop FFT to Rigol level and they did not drop measurements performance using some tiny intermediate buffer and they did not remove wfm history buffer and they forget also remove fast sequence mode and make this slow as Rigol and they did not drop normal wfm max speed and they did not drop color gradient and they did not make UI more slow. Also they forget add signal noise and they did not reduce serial decoding performance and they did not remove possibility to full control for interpolation, also they forget reduce mask test speed and they forget add some memory.  Some want buy Rigol and this is ok... Some want buy Siglent and it is just same ok. Both can do what they need to do if they have made right selection for just they personal individual needs.

At that price point, well, price is the point...

I didn't say it was same performance. Apart from a bit less memory (DS1054Z has 24Mp) everything else should be better. Even 128kpoint for FFT, while downgrade for Siglent 1000X-E is WAAY better that what Rigol has. Or twice as much as 18000 USD retail Keysight DSOX3000T has with 64 kpoints....  . OK 3000T has superb controls for FFT, but resolution bandwidth is not great...

This does call for competitive comparison with the Z machine, but in real world scenarios, not datasheet comparison....

[Mechatrommer]

No, not direct,  they did not drop FFT to Rigol level...

the problem is they get into the race way too late when Rigol already partying at the finish line in America since E series. probably soon we'll see Riglol portable battery powered add-on upgrade into the market. btw, attached is FFT out of my 1054Z... i'm not going to buy one budget Siglent to find out how its done with it. at that price, we all did buy "budget" Rigol scope already.

Siglent have launched new budget oscilloscope in EU area (I do not know other areas and I do not write what I believe)

does that mean what you wrote here is not what you believe? so its not true, right? (or maybe i begin to question my understanding skill in English language )

[tv84]

My biggest question: What does the U (in the designation) mean?

[2N3055]

No, not direct,  they did not drop FFT to Rigol level...

the problem is they get into the race way too late when Rigol already partying at the finish line in America since E series. probably soon we'll see Riglol portable battery powered add-on upgrade into the market. btw, attached is FFT out of my 1054Z... i'm not going to buy one budget Siglent to find out how its done with it. at that price, we all did buy "budget" Rigol scope already.

Siglent have launched new budget oscilloscope in EU area (I do not know other areas and I do not write what I believe)

does that mean what you wrote here is not what you believe? so it's not true, right? (or maybe i begin to question my understanding skill in English language )

Do you really believe all the scopes in the world are already sold and no new scopes will be sold ever again? 

Rigol portable battery for DS1054Z ? So you, like, hold desktop scope in one hand in the air, carry backpack for the battery ( or you hang battery around the neck), and measure with one remaining hand ? 
Combined price of DS1054Z and battery buys you Micsig tablet scope if you need thing portable without Rube Goldberg contraptions, unless Rigol is a religion and not a scope.
Also what kind of battery pack? One that plugs in into mains socket on a scope? That one can be used with any device too.... Or did I miss DC 12V power input on Rigol?

Also what is the purpose of picture of FFT that you calculated on computer from some capture downloaded on the scope. That is NOT FFT from your Rigol, that is straight out lie, and a deliberate one.
Any scope has that, if you have PC connected and crunch numbers on a PC. It is cumbersome and takes effort, PC must be connected, software must be provided and used to make that....
That is why people fuss about FFT directly in scope. It's quick and convenient.  You just press few buttons and twiddle knob or two...

And you know damn well that Rf-loop english is a bit rough at the times. Why the smart ass comments? Just politely point at the fact that he wrote something that sounds incomprehensible or wrong... Ask for clarification.. He knows his English is not perfect... Nor is mine or that many users here... Native English speaking users might even be in minority here on forum..
That HAS to be taken into account in ANY discussion here. That cannot and must not be point of contention in ANY discussion here...

Sincerely,
Siniša

[rf-loop]

was...

[2N3055]

My biggest question: What does the U (in the designation) mean?

(U)ltra low features ?
(U)ndercut pricing ?

 

[rf-loop]

was...

[tv84]

http://en.chncpa.org/whatson/zdyc/201808/t20180817_189541.shtml

   I would never get there.

[2N3055]

http://en.chncpa.org/whatson/zdyc/201808/t20180817_189541.shtml

   I would never get there.

Why? We consider you a disassembler Zen master ... 

[GTheis]

As a starter in having my own lab and seeing this EU price it makes me want to get this (I was going for the more expensive SDS1104X-E because I want to play with RF and FFT might be important in this case).

From the datasheet, while I understood some, I didn't fully comprehend. In theory, they beat the Rigol quite a bit, no? Anyone to drawn very comprehensive comparisons for us newbies?

[tv84]

Why? We consider you a disassembler Zen master ... 

I've tried mandarim for a year but... it would require reverse engineering in fulltime!! 

[Fungus]

From the datasheet, while I understood some, I didn't fully comprehend. In theory, they beat the Rigol quite a bit, no?

Nah. They're really only one step up the ladder from the Rigol. The difference between them is about the same as the difference in price. What is it these days, about 30-40%? Seems about right. 

I want to play with RF and FFT might be important in this case).

The Siglent FFT isn't anything marvelous. It has more data points but it's slow/painful to use.

(and this new one doesn't even have many more data points)

[2N3055]

Why? We consider you a disassembler Zen master ... 

I've tried mandarim for a year but... it would require reverse engineering in fulltime!! 

No need to speak.. Just be quiet, look wise, and pretend you're meditating.. 

[2N3055]

From the datasheet, while I understood some, I didn't fully comprehend. In theory, they beat the Rigol quite a bit, no?

Nah. They're really only one step up the ladder from the Rigol. The difference between them is about the same as the difference in price. What is it these days, about 30-40%? Seems about right. 

I want to play with RF and FFT might be important in this case).

The Siglent FFT isn't anything marvelous. It has more data points but it's slow/painful to use.

(and this new one doesn't even have many more data points)

It is not quite true.. SDS1000X-e has 2 A/D converters that make sure there is no aliasing. It has color grading mode that is quite useful. Decoding is much better (has CAN and LIN too), table view for decoding is much more nicely laid out. It has very useful segmented and always running history mode (Rigol has record mode but you cannot do much with it),  measurements are more precise, running from full buffer instead of on screen data.... FFT is 1 MPoints. Input sensitivity goes down to 500uV division, for real. So many, many improvements.

This cheaper U model has same price as DS1054Z, and only one A/D converter and half the memory of X-E, 1mV/div real vertical sensitivity, and "only" 128kpoint FFT, that is twice what 25000 USD DSOX4000 has, and 8 times 16k on Ds1054Z. Most of other capabilities are same as 1000X-E series.

I see this U Siglent scope as clearly better in capabilities than DS1054Z for the same price.
We could argue  if it is better than small GW Instek GDS 1000B series, though....

I look at it in a positive way. Maybe this will be small kick in the but for Rigol to put some effort to refresh low end offering... Competition is good.

[Fungus]

It is not quite true.. SDS1000X-e has 2 A/D converters that make sure there is no aliasing. It has color grading mode that is quite useful. Decoding is much better (has CAN and LIN too), table view for decoding is much more nicely laid out. It has very useful segmented and always running history mode (Rigol has record mode but you cannot do much with it),  measurements are more precise, running from full buffer instead of on screen data.... FFT is 1 MPoints. Input sensitivity goes down to 500uV division, for real. So many, many improvements.

And many, many more $$$.

If we're allowed to just keep increasing the price and claim "This one's even better!" then it's turtles all the way up.

PS: Most of those a nitpicky, on-paper things that won't have much effect in real life.

We could argue  if it is better than small GW Instek GDS 1000B series, though....

The Instek could cost a lot more, depending on where you live. If you're in the USA then it's under $300 and a total no-brainer.

In Europe? More like $500.

[2N3055]

It is not quite true.. SDS1000X-e has 2 A/D converters that make sure there is no aliasing. It has color grading mode that is quite useful. Decoding is much better (has CAN and LIN too), table view for decoding is much more nicely laid out. It has very useful segmented and always running history mode (Rigol has record mode but you cannot do much with it),  measurements are more precise, running from full buffer instead of on screen data.... FFT is 1 MPoints. Input sensitivity goes down to 500uV division, for real. So many, many improvements.

And many, many more $$$.

If we're allowed to just keep increasing the price and claim "This one's even better!" then it's turtles all the way up.

PS: Most of those a nitpicky, on-paper things that won't have much effect in real life.

We could argue  if it is better than small GW Instek GDS 1000B series, though....

The Instek could cost a lot more, depending on where you live. If you're in the USA then it's under $300 and a total no-brainer.

In Europe? More like $500.

I'm not sure if you're confusing X-E and X-U, the new one.
1000X-E is 50% more expensive than DS1000Z in EU, but is much better, for reasons mentioned.
1000X-U is new one that is 350€ and is in price range of DS1000Z. It has single A/D converter, same as DS1000Z, "only" 128 kpoints FFT (still massively bigger than 1000Z), and pretty much all other benefits of Siglent 1000X-E platform.

[Mechatrommer]

Rigol portable battery for DS1054Z ? So you, like, hold desktop scope in one hand in the air, carry backpack for the battery ( or you hang battery around the neck), and measure with one remaining hand ? ... Also what kind of battery pack? One that plugs in into mains socket on a scope? That one can be used with any device too.... Or did I miss DC 12V power input on Rigol?

urhhmm, i'm imagining... no, no and no ... no, yes and no..

Also what is the purpose of picture of FFT that you calculated on computer from some capture downloaded on the scope. That is NOT FFT from your Rigol, that is straight out lie, and a deliberate one.

can we have 10Mpts FFT out of Siglent DSO? lie or not lie?

And you know damn well that Rf-loop english is a bit rough at the times.  Why the smart ass comments? Just politely point at the fact that he wrote something that sounds incomprehensible or wrong...

rf-loop is my friend, or my guru, so i know him (virtually). although he may not treat me like one. except that line is unbelievably understandable and NOT wrong, its always fascinating reading his posts making me feel like at home

[Fungus]

I'm not sure if you're confusing X-E and X-U, the new one.

The clue would be where I say "more $$$".

It has single A/D converter, same as DS1000Z, "only" 128 kpoints FFT (still massively bigger than 1000Z), and pretty much all other benefits of Siglent 1000X-E platform.

a) DS1000Z has 64kpoints FFT. Twice as many won't make much difference.
b) It actually costs about 50 Euros more than the Rigol.

But yeah, Rigol needs to respond.