some USA states replaces trafic lights with flags

[Sal Ammoniac]

atleast flags cant run out of electricity

A local town (Sausalito) has these flags at some intersections. No one uses them.

[james_s]

It is definitely relatively recent in CT.  2021?

" The newly enacted law requires drivers to slow down or stop under the following limited circumstances:
 
If the pedestrian is within any portion of the crosswalk;
If by stepping to the curb at the crosswalk entrance, the pedestrian indicates an intent to cross by raising a hand or arm to oncoming traffic; and
If the pedestrian signals an intent to cross by moving any body part or extension of a body part into the crosswalk including a leashed dog, stroller, wheelchair, cane or walking stick.
This legislation was enacted in part because of the increase in pedestrian injuries and fatalities occurring in crosswalks. It has been estimated that there was a 55% increase in the number of pedestrian deaths for the 10-year period ending in 2018."

I wonder what the actual law was prior to that? I was under the impression that if a person was in the crosswalk they had the right of way and if a car hits them the driver is at fault. This sounds like it may be bolstering the existing law to cover other scenarios, such as requiring a driver to stop if a pedestrian is intending to cross. Personally when I'm walking I try to wait for a gap where a minimal number of cars will have to stop for me.

[james_s]

This pedestrians always having right of way is good and bad.  It encourages jaywalking making accidents more likely.

Jaywalking has been a huge problem in downtown Seattle, to the point where I go way out of my way to not drive down there at all. Many times cars will be trying to turn while pedestrians are streaming across the crosswalk ignoring the Don't Walk signal. It would all work so much more smoothly if everyone obeyed the signals and crossed the street at designated crosswalks. Then you have cyclists who want to have their cake and eat it too. They often ride on the road and insist that cars share it, but then they ignore signals and blow through lights or ride onto the sidewalk and across crosswalks while the signal for cars is red.

[Monkeh]

This pedestrians always having right of way is good and bad.  It encourages jaywalking making accidents more likely.

Rubbish.

We have no concept of jaywalking, and pedestrians have priority over vehicles. And yet, we have no problem with people getting mowed down left right and centre because they're darting out into the road to try and cross without thought.

[SilverSolder]

It is definitely relatively recent in CT.  2021?

" The newly enacted law requires drivers to slow down or stop under the following limited circumstances:
 
If the pedestrian is within any portion of the crosswalk;
If by stepping to the curb at the crosswalk entrance, the pedestrian indicates an intent to cross by raising a hand or arm to oncoming traffic; and
If the pedestrian signals an intent to cross by moving any body part or extension of a body part into the crosswalk including a leashed dog, stroller, wheelchair, cane or walking stick.
This legislation was enacted in part because of the increase in pedestrian injuries and fatalities occurring in crosswalks. It has been estimated that there was a 55% increase in the number of pedestrian deaths for the 10-year period ending in 2018."

I wonder what the actual law was prior to that? I was under the impression that if a person was in the crosswalk they had the right of way and if a car hits them the driver is at fault. This sounds like it may be bolstering the existing law to cover other scenarios, such as requiring a driver to stop if a pedestrian is intending to cross. Personally when I'm walking I try to wait for a gap where a minimal number of cars will have to stop for me.

Maybe this is just a CT thing.  Every crosswalk now has new signs "Yield to pedestrians in crosswalk".   Maybe it was always the case, but nobody ever did it...

[thm_w]

I wonder what the actual law was prior to that? I was under the impression that if a person was in the crosswalk they had the right of way and if a car hits them the driver is at fault. This sounds like it may be bolstering the existing law to cover other scenarios, such as requiring a driver to stop if a pedestrian is intending to cross. Personally when I'm walking I try to wait for a gap where a minimal number of cars will have to stop for me.

They just tweaked the law as you say: https://www.cga.ct.gov/2016/rpt/2016-R-0179.htm

Connecticut's crosswalk law has been changed several times. Starting in 1978, Connecticut law required drivers to yield to pedestrians in crosswalks, provided the pedestrian was in the half of the road in which the vehicle was driving or crossing to it from the opposite side. The pedestrian also had to be approaching so quickly, or be so close to the portion of the roadway on which the vehicle was traveling, that he or she “was in reasonable danger of being struck” (PA 78-309).

[eugene]

atleast flags cant run out of electricity

You expect me to spend 31 minutes watching a video just to find out WTF you're talking about?

[Jester]

Excellent video. We need more sensors and smart controls in Canada. It’s normal to wait at a red light when there is no traffic in the other direction. Too many people are way, way too distracted and it is getting worse by the day. Some  pedestrian's will step into the street the moment the light turns green without even looking (hoodie up and ear buds in). All in all it’s a recipe for disaster.

[SilverSolder]

I wonder what the actual law was prior to that? I was under the impression that if a person was in the crosswalk they had the right of way and if a car hits them the driver is at fault. This sounds like it may be bolstering the existing law to cover other scenarios, such as requiring a driver to stop if a pedestrian is intending to cross. Personally when I'm walking I try to wait for a gap where a minimal number of cars will have to stop for me.

They just tweaked the law as you say: https://www.cga.ct.gov/2016/rpt/2016-R-0179.htm

Connecticut's crosswalk law has been changed several times. Starting in 1978, Connecticut law required drivers to yield to pedestrians in crosswalks, provided the pedestrian was in the half of the road in which the vehicle was driving or crossing to it from the opposite side. The pedestrian also had to be approaching so quickly, or be so close to the portion of the roadway on which the vehicle was traveling, that he or she “was in reasonable danger of being struck” (PA 78-309).

Hahaha so previously you had to stop if the pedestrian was in danger of being struck...   -  That has definitely changed for the better!

[james_s]

Hahaha so previously you had to stop if the pedestrian was in danger of being struck...   -  That has definitely changed for the better!

The law sometimes goes too far though. We have that same requirement to stop if a pedestrian is anywhere in the crosswalk or even standing near it and that's annoying. Even on a road where there is an island in the middle of two lanes, a pedestrian can walk across your lane, cross the island and you're supposed to stay stopped there until they have completely cleared the road which is annoying because once they've crossed your lane they are out of danger from you.

[Rick Law]

This pedestrians always having right of way is good and bad.  It encourages jaywalking making accidents more likely.

Rubbish.

We have no concept of jaywalking, and pedestrians have priority over vehicles. And yet, we have no problem with people getting mowed down left right and centre because they're darting out into the road to try and cross without thought.

Terrorist acts not withstanding, folks here doesn't really get mowed down just because they cross illegally or darting in and out.  Accident do occur and when they jaywalk, and jaywalkers are endangering themselves.

We are getting less civil these days.  While I just came out of a cobbler store in a near by town, I saw a guy who suddenly darted into moving traffic without looking and not at designated crossing.  The driver managed to stop inches from this fellow and this fellow proceeded to angrily bang on the car's hood.  The jaywalker was playing chicken with his own life.  Being the one that suddenly darted into moving traffic, he had no right to be angry.  Secretly and in one of my "less than a gentlemen" moment, I thought: too bad he didn't get hit, it would have served him right to spend sometime on a wheelchair.

[SilverSolder]

Hahaha so previously you had to stop if the pedestrian was in danger of being struck...   -  That has definitely changed for the better!

The law sometimes goes too far though. We have that same requirement to stop if a pedestrian is anywhere in the crosswalk or even standing near it and that's annoying. Even on a road where there is an island in the middle of two lanes, a pedestrian can walk across your lane, cross the island and you're supposed to stay stopped there until they have completely cleared the road which is annoying because once they've crossed your lane they are out of danger from you.

Looking at actual traffic, few pedestrians seem to have any expectation that cars will stop for them...  they typically wait until cars actually do stop.  Probably a good idea, as something like 50% of drivers seem to be still using the "old" rules...

[james_s]

Looking at actual traffic, few pedestrians seem to have any expectation that cars will stop for them...  they typically wait until cars actually do stop.  Probably a good idea, as something like 50% of drivers seem to be still using the "old" rules...

I always wait. I was nearly mowed down several years ago at a crosswalk that had flashing lights and everything. I was about to step off the curb when a car rolled right through and I watched as the driver was looking down at a smartphone in their lap. I had just come out of a store and wished I had a shopping cart to simply let go of and let it roll across in front of the car.

[Sal Ammoniac]

Many drivers can't see anything smaller than a semitruck, so smart pedestrians, bicycle, and motorcycle riders should always assume they're not seen and behave accordingly.

[Monkeh]

This pedestrians always having right of way is good and bad.  It encourages jaywalking making accidents more likely.

Rubbish.

We have no concept of jaywalking, and pedestrians have priority over vehicles. And yet, we have no problem with people getting mowed down left right and centre because they're darting out into the road to try and cross without thought.

Terrorist acts not withstanding, folks here doesn't really get mowed down just because they cross illegally or darting in and out.  Accident do occur and when they jaywalk, and jaywalkers are endangering themselves.

And yet again, nobody else has these problems. Perhaps 'jaywalking' (a term invented to criminalize people using their legs, not paying car companies) isn't the issue?

[james_s]

And yet again, nobody else has these problems. Perhaps 'jaywalking' (a term invented to criminalize people using their legs, not paying car companies) isn't the issue?

Well I'm glad that people in your region are superior and enlightened and do not have this problem, not everyone is so fortunate. Here jaywalking is a serious problem and frequently results in accidents. Pedestrians often ignore the signals and walk in every which way, leaving drivers stuck in the middle of intersections as pedestrians end up blocking both the entry and exit to the intersection while the driver has a green light. Other times pedestrians will dart across the street in some random location that is not a designated crosswalk, especially annoying when there is a crosswalk nearby. People driving cars don't expect pedestrians to be in the middle of the road because the law requires using designated crosswalks where they are available. Car and pedestrian traffic can't coexist without some sort of rules and everyone being on the same page. This is especially true in dense urban environments, chaos is not safe for anyone. People behaving in unexpected ways and not following the agreed upon rules is a recipe for accidents. Surely you can agree that places like freeways (motorways) and busy high speed arterials are not a place pedestrians should be.

[Someone]

This pedestrians always having right of way is good and bad.  It encourages jaywalking making accidents more likely.

Rubbish.

We have no concept of jaywalking, and pedestrians have priority over vehicles. And yet, we have no problem with people getting mowed down left right and centre because they're darting out into the road to try and cross without thought.

Terrorist acts not withstanding, folks here doesn't really get mowed down just because they cross illegally or darting in and out.  Accident do occur and when they jaywalk, and jaywalkers are endangering themselves.

Classic "road is for cars, must be the pedestrians fault" mentality, when in fact its the other way around with pedestrians using crosswalks:
https://www.triumphlaw.com/personal-injury/pedestrian-accident/crosswalk-accidents/
Such a common issue that lawyers target that specific cohort/market.

[Someone]

Pedestrians often ignore the signals and walk in every which way, leaving drivers stuck in the middle of intersections as pedestrians end up blocking both the entry and exit to the intersection while the driver has a green light.

Depends how you read the road rules (for your non-specified jurisdiction). In both California and Australia a driver at a set of traffic lights is not supposed to enter unless they can leave the intersection, so anyone becoming stranded/stuck is entirely their own fault. Is that enforced? nope, but it is a rule that prevents your "problem".

[themadhippy]

Here jaywalking is a serious problem

you should  try crossing the road in Vietnam ,if you dont jaywalk you aint gonna get across.

[Halcyon]

My two cents (as a former police officer)...

The issue of left turn on red (or right turn in other countries) is solved simply by enforcing that vehicles give way to pedestrians when turning into a road. However giving pedestrians universal right-of-way creates its own set of problems, for example, if the pedestrian is crossing in a place they shouldn't be. In situations like that where there is a collisions involving a pedestrian, the person crossing in the wrong place/wrong time could be deemed at fault.

In Australia, the road rules are a standard set of rules which apply to the entire country, there are some exceptions though where states have implemented their own additional rules to cater for special circumstances (in Victoria, they have the "hook turn" which is essentially turning right from the left lane).

There is a road rule which applies specifically to pedestrians which states "A pedestrian must not cause a traffic hazard by moving into the path of a driver or unreasonably obstruct the path of a driver".

A prime example of that was a collision that I investigated years ago where a pedestrian stepped out onto the roadway, at a set of traffic lights with a pedestrian crossing, but against the red "don't walk" signal. Thankfully she only suffered minor injuries, but I did issue the pedestrian an infringement notice. The driver was not liable for any costs.

Drivers do have responsibilities and need to take care, especially around crossings and intersections, but they aren't liable for people's stupidity in other circumstances.

[Someone]

Here jaywalking is a serious problem

you should  try crossing the road in Vietnam ,if you dont jaywalk you aint gonna get across.

Or the position from many US police/prosecutors: there was a marked crossing a half a mile along the road, pedestrians must use the detour provided or be fined.

[james_s]

Depends how you read the road rules (for your non-specified jurisdiction). In both California and Australia a driver at a set of traffic lights is not supposed to enter unless they can leave the intersection, so anyone becoming stranded/stuck is entirely their own fault. Is that enforced? nope, but it is a rule that prevents your "problem".

Yeah well that's great, except what are you to do if you enter the intersection on a green light and some pedestrians waltz across the street when the sign says Don't Walk? Are you seriously saying that's the fault of the driver who has the right of way by virtue of a green signal while a pedestrian is breaking the law?

[Someone]

Depends how you read the road rules (for your non-specified jurisdiction). In both California and Australia a driver at a set of traffic lights is not supposed to enter unless they can leave the intersection, so anyone becoming stranded/stuck is entirely their own fault. Is that enforced? nope, but it is a rule that prevents your "problem".

Yeah well that's great, except what are you to do if you enter the intersection on a green light and some pedestrians waltz across the street when the sign says Don't Walk? Are you seriously saying that's the fault of the driver who has the right of way by virtue of a green signal while a pedestrian is breaking the law?

Doesnt matter what's stopping you leaving the intersection be that a car, pedestrian, pile of manure, etc. If there isn't a clear exit, you dont pass the stop line.

Pedestrians and car speeds arent such that you could enter an intersection and then come to a stop for a pedestrian newly entering the road:
a pedestrian would have been making a clear entry to the crossing before turning for there to be reaction and braking distance to pull up to a stop, or
you'd be passing/swerving around them (closely) as they step out into the road

This happens regardless of the lamp facing the pedestrian (which often isn't visible to opposing drivers) and drivers have to look across the intersection for any traffic/obstruction before proceeding. Green lights are shown to drivers not as a go-go-everything clear, but as an indication that they may be able to proceed (and need to check other restrictions).

Sounds like you're just a bad driver who doesnt want the effort of having to look for other road users. Like people who cant safely use an unprotected turn across oncoming traffic (both parties are shown green lights, but there is still a need to give way).

[james_s]

Pedestrians and car speeds arent such that you could enter an intersection and then come to a stop for a pedestrian newly entering the road:
a pedestrian would have been making a clear entry to the crossing before turning for there to be reaction and braking distance to pull up to a stop, or
you'd be passing/swerving around them (closely) as they step out into the road

This happens regardless of the lamp facing the pedestrian (which often isn't visible to opposing drivers) and drivers have to look across the intersection for any traffic/obstruction before proceeding. Green lights are shown to drivers not as a go-go-everything clear, but as an indication that they may be able to proceed (and need to check other restrictions).

Sounds like you're just a bad driver who doesnt want the effort of having to look for other road users. Like people who cant safely use an unprotected turn across oncoming traffic (both parties are shown green lights, but there is still a need to give way).

I beg to differ, I see it all the time, car starts rolling forward into the intersection and pedestrians start streaming across the crosswalk on the other side of the street after the car is already in the intersection. I'm not sure you grasp the nature of dense urban traffic in an overpopulated major city with narrow streets that mostly lack turn lanes.

I think accusing me of being a bad driver is rude, uncalled for, and frankly ridiculous. For what it's worth I refuse to drive in downtown Seattle because doing so is a nightmare so I bus into the office when I go. I see this happen most often as a pedestrian myself, although unlike many I respect the crossing signs and don't jaywalk. Now if you think you are such a fantastically skilled high and mighty driver that you won't have trouble, I'd encourage you to visit the region and show us all how it's done. I'd wager that within an hour you'd get stuck in the middle of an intersection at least once just as I've described or stuck gridlocked unable to move while some jerk behind you is honking and road raging because you've sat through 4 green lights without moving because there is some pedestrian who could conceivably dart across the street because there are ALWAYS pedestrians all over the place throughout most of the days.

[Someone]

For what it's worth I refuse to drive in downtown Seattle because doing so is a nightmare so I bus into the office when I go. I see this happen most often as a pedestrian myself

Well done creating imaginary argument...

Depends how you read the road rules (for your non-specified jurisdiction). In both California and Australia a driver at a set of traffic lights is not supposed to enter unless they can leave the intersection, so anyone becoming stranded/stuck is entirely their own fault. Is that enforced? nope, but it is a rule that prevents your "problem".

So people in some other jurisdiction where those rules dont apply, dont follow them.... AMAZING!