Angry at Free Energy YouTubers...

[janaf]

I don't know where the 230% efficiency number of LEDs come from. But it surely must have been something like 230% compared to some other lamps.

The "problem" with energy is that it's fairly abstract and that rewards for "free energy" are so huge, people want to believe there is such a thing. It's like "eternal life". So desirable, it must be there somewhere, somehow.

Also look at how even the scientific community went ballistic over "cold fusion" a couple of decades ago. It didn't seem to make sense but IF, the reward would be enormous.

There have been tons of claims on free energy. I was involved in one, where an investor and a Russian engineer?scientist?scammer? promoted a miracle machine, something that would have been free energy. We where asked to provide measurement proof. I pretty much right away said it was impossible, unless all physics and chemistry knowledge of the last 100 years was right. The "unless" was enough for the investor to put up the money anyway, against our advise.

So we did the measurements, they showed what we thought they would, i.e. no miracles happened. The Russian said our results where wrong, coming with all sorts of well spoken claims, tried to ridicule us because we never heard of this or that Russian scientist's findings. They has another institute perform other measurements, different methods adn they came to the same results; no gain, no miracle. It probably kept the Russian funded for a year. Plus the cost of our measurements. Well, this investor could afford it, but was really sad it didn't work out. I think he saw the billion$ "just" missed.

Another miracle project: "harvesting the earth rotating magnetic field" like a generator. Also generated millions in funding. I mean wow, IF....................................... so supporters and millions pored in. Very quiet now
 

[paulie]

"Religion is an attempt to get control over the sensory world, in which we are placed, by means of the wish-world, which we have developed inside us as a result of biological and psychological necessities. [...] a parallel to the neurosis which the civilized individual must pass through on his way from childhood to maturity." –Sigmund Freud, Moses and Monotheism

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein

[rolycat]

I don't know where the 230% efficiency number of LEDs come from. But it surely must have been something like 230% compared to some other lamps.

No, it's real. Power input, 30 picowatts. Light output, 69 picowatts.

The catch is that the 230% only refers to electrical efficiency - it makes up the difference by extracting heat from its surroundings. Modern air conditioners are also frequently over 100% efficient in that sense, of course.

[zapta]

...But, this is more about the fact that some people place a few magnets on on a fan and believe they have invented the next great thing.

In this video he placed more than just a few magnets ;-)

Actually it's a very well made 'for entertainment only' video.

[zapta]

The problem with free energy and beating the laws of thermodynamics is that they have been so well proven time and time and time and time again across a whole range of fields (so many times you average person would need a lifetime to investigate them all)...

There are no proofs in physics, just a finite set of observations and proposed models that fit them.  That's difference from disciplines such as math which is man made system with known rules that can be used for formal proofs (kind of, because you can never be sure that you didn't make a mistake in the proof). A real 'proof' is a tricky thing.

I wouldn't be surprised if 10k years from now our current understanding of reality will look so naive, primitive and misguided.

[IanB]

I wouldn't be surprised if 10k years from now our current understanding of reality will look so naive, primitive and misguided.

Naturally.  But the laws of thermodynamics will still apply...

[smjcuk]

I wouldn't be surprised if 10k years from now our current understanding of reality will look so naive, primitive and misguided.

And some people will still believe in 12,000 year old zombies and talking snakes too...

[zapta]

I wouldn't be surprised if 10k years from now our current understanding of reality will look so naive, primitive and misguided.

Naturally.  But the laws of thermodynamics will still apply...

They may or may not. Those 'laws' are just models that represent our current understanding of reality which is infinitesimally small. We shouldn't get too cocky. ;-)

[Mechatrommer]

evolution is based on lose statistics and guesses. i wonder today..... we have men around, we have monkeys around, but.... where is the half breeded monkey+man around just as pictured in the evolusinism graphics?

Please don't turn this into a religious debate Mechatrommer, you have been borderline to being banned before because of it.

dont just nitpick on me i didnt started it, check the thread again. and your highly misunderstanding is stunning. i was not talking about religion i was talking about "blind faith" and for you and many others with "prejudice" think its only religious people who have this "blind faith". you should move this thread to general discussion as the free energy impossibility doesnt deserve a place in "technical and design" discussion imho. you move this thread to general section you have your peace of mind that i guarantee, i reply to what i saw. and i cant ignore "technical and design" section, thats why i'm here.

disbelieving without proof is just as much as believing without proof... and if one is to say "i dont have any religion", he doesnt understand what "religion" is, that simple. so what do you have to say? i need a "capacitator" i disbelieve with proof! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J56MiB4CFWY&feature=youtu.be

How does this relate to the the topic of free energy?

i didnt say overunity is possible. what i said is, lay your proof if its impossible, i made a video in the link to say its impossbile, do you have a better formulation than my video?. ruling out a possibility of certain setup without scientific argumentation or proof is just a "disservice" to the science itself (OP's word) but no one has linked the proof showing its really impossible. tapping natural energy is certainly possible, why are you so sure this is overunity subject, not natural energy harvesting? natural resources is called "free energy" the fact that the OP posted the video without scientific proof of that particular "fan and magnet setup", just his own and many others point of hate view here, is not much different from the view of commenters in the video. that what i called blind faith from both side "free energy" and "religion" is two taboo word here you got punished by supporting them, not religious huh? typical!

Good luck with that.
Apostate Malays lose all their privileges, like easier access to university, discounts on real estate and car purchases. Death threats are not uncommon.
...as Shariah laws apply.

your ignorance is stunning... 1st shariah law is just a puppet small portion of law. every other law is secular and most dominant. they (most citizens) are worshipping modernisation, they are worshipping western language.... through ignorance

disbelieving without proof is just as much as believing without proof... and if one is to say "i dont have any religion", he doesnt understand what "religion" is, that simple. so what do you have to say? i need a "capacitator" i disbelieve with proof! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J56MiB4CFWY&feature=youtu.be

How does this relate to the the topic of free energy?

I think Mechatrommer's question was "how can you be so sure that there is no free energy, when you can't definitively prove it" - I guess he is hoping for a "black swann event", where something completely unlikely actually occurs.

you are about right about me until the later sentence... by challenging disprovement doesnt necessarily means i'm supporting it. i'm the person in the middle. you hate them because they are doing it without proof. you are not doing it, do you have proof? if no, i see you just as the same as them. what blinded you people from thinking i'm from the other side? prejudice? does the judge get punished by asking both side?

The problem with free energy and beating the laws of thermodynamics is that they have been so well proven time and time and time and time again across a whole range of fields

so natural resources is not called "free energy"? who's actually playing with word here? granted those chaps playing with it making people thinking "free energy" is like free coffee. is "free" OSSHW is that kind of "free" too? anything OSSHW should be "free"?

"Religion is an attempt to get control over the sensory world....

are you provoking religious discussion? just like others before me? i will report you to dave....

[Wytnucls]

'Puppet' shariah laws that can impose caning for offenders (men and women) and up to three years imprisonment in cases of religious or family matters.

[Mechatrommer]

'Puppet' shariah laws that can impose canning for offenders (men and women) and up to three years imprisonment in cases of religious or family matters.

where do you get that? specific link? canning is applied in secular law on rapists, never i heard canning under shariah law here... not even 3 years imprisonment, at most you got "ticket" to pay if you commit adultery with "not your wife". in secular law dont ask, you can be 60 years or more in prison for rape or killing... having said that.... our law is not entirely islam, our country is not fully islamic country, its just a service lips to please the culture here, the ironic part is... everybody believing it, by what happened all this time since independence 1957, they believe its "islamic". they NEVER read the whole entire book and guide to understand certain aspect of it deeply, you need specialization in university like al-azhar in saudi arabia. so... even a person who claimed a muslim are not well versed, so who are you to judge?

[zapta]

"Religion is an attempt to get control over the sensory world....

are you provoking religious discussion? just like others before me? i will report you to dave....

The admins don't seem to care about anti religion posts.

[Mechatrommer]

it's a gradual progression.... Same with evolution.  There is no half man-half monkey.  There is no animal whose parents were monkeys but it is a man.  It is a gradual progression only visible when you see the gradual changed that have taken place over a long period of time...

you dont understand what i'm saying. i know its a gradual progression happening in billion years time.... what i'm saying is... this can be long but bear with me please....

1 billion years ago there were monkeys, lets call them monkeys A. and then 500 millions ago there were another group of monkeys, let call them monkeys B. and then now in present time we still have monkeys, not A and not B, but new generation of monkeys of today, let call the monkeys of today monkeys C. now we have 3 groups of monkeys in the span of a very long time... monkeys A, they have offsprings, also monkeys ofcourse by that time, but when it goes down the line grand grand grand childrens, in 500 millions years time those offsprings have evolved to half-monkeys, that time they meet the generation monkeys B, offcourse no questioning during that time because they are just a bunch of monkeys and half-breeded monkeys, they dont know anything yet, (metacongnitively)...

go back to the future a bit, to present time we have monkeys C remember? this is going to be short story because... we'll never have the chance to see their grand grand grand 1000X grand childrens to become a man because that needs 1 billion years to come in the future... agreed? we all should, because this is the evolution theory tells us... now we ended the discussion of monkeys C. lets go back to the past 500 millions years ago....

500 millions years ago, we have a bunch of half-breeded monkeys descendant from monkeys A, mixed with a bunch of later group monkeys B remember? now the half-breeded monkeys from the past generation of monkeys A breeded again and have grand grand 1000X grand children in the next 500 millions years, that is today. but now the grand-grand childrens have evolved to fully human, thats us! we are the descendant of monkeys A, right? ok... go back again 500 millions years ago to monkeys B.

monkeys B breeded they got grand grand 1000X grand childrens and have evolved to half-breeded monkeys half-monkey half-man, in 500 millions year time. thats today remember? the 100 millions dollar question is..... where is the half-breeded man-monkey of today? that is the offsprings of grand grand 1000X grand fathers and mothers of group monkeys B of 500 millions years ago? evolution theory doesnt explain that, it only explain the progression of it in 1 billion years time.. so can you find me an alive half breeded monkey half breeded man?

[Mechatrommer]

"Religion is an attempt to get control over the sensory world....

are you provoking religious discussion? just like others before me? i will report you to dave....

The admins don't seem to care about anti religion posts.

hmmm, when somebody reply to the provocation, they got banned and you are not? thats "fair"!

[Hugoneus]

Everyone, I think it would be more productive to refrain from arguing issues which are unrelated to electronics in this thread. It was not my intention at all. I was merely trying to vent off and potentially have some future visitors to the electronics form be more prepared if they come across these videos.

If anyone thinks they can make a "free energy" machine etc. please built it, publish a peer reviewed paper on it, win a few Nobel prizes and live happily ever after.

[zapta]

hmmm, when somebody reply to the provocation, they got banned and you are not? thats "fair"!

No, it's not, but that's the physics here. 

[xrunner]

If anyone thinks they can make a "free energy" machine etc. please built it, publish a peer reviewed paper on it, win a few Nobel prizes and live happily ever after.

Yep - like the Big Foot community. Find one and capture it. If they're all over the place it shouldn't be too hard. 

[zapta]

If anyone thinks they can make a "free energy" machine etc. please built it, publish a peer reviewed paper on it, win a few Nobel prizes and live happily ever after.

Every solar cell is a free energy machine.

[xrunner]

If anyone thinks they can make a "free energy" machine etc. please built it, publish a peer reviewed paper on it, win a few Nobel prizes and live happily ever after.

Every solar cell is a free energy machine.

No it isn't, because the energy is not coming from nothing. It's coming from the fusion of hydrogen. Just because it's far away doesn't mean it's "free energy" in the sense these quacks are talking about.

[Mechatrommer]

If anyone thinks they can make a "free energy" machine etc. please built it, publish a peer reviewed paper on it, win a few Nobel prizes and live happily ever after.

Every solar cell is a free energy machine.

No it isn't, because the energy is not coming from nothing. It's coming from the fusion of hydrogen. Just because it's far away doesn't mean it's "free energy" in the sense these quacks are talking about.

then we have a very serious vocabulary error here! does free coffe came out of nothing? no! but everyone agreed its "free" right?

[paulie]

"Religion is an attempt to get control over the sensory world....

are you provoking religious discussion? just like others before me? i will report you to dave....

The admins don't seem to care about anti religion posts.

hmmm, when somebody reply to the provocation, they got banned and you are not? thats "fair"!

Not really anti-religious nor necessarily my own statement. Just a quote from a somewhat highly regarded pioneer in human psychology trying to explain it. Why didn't you get just as upset over Einstein implying all humans are stupid which is much more insulting? Maybe those embracing mystical force theories are overly sensitive because they suspect the truth (cognitive dissonance?).

And note your constant challenge to disprove things can be difficult according to formal rules of logic. Hard to prove something is impossible but easy to show something is possible with just one single example. Your failure in logical thought calls into question any arguments in that link at the end of your posts.

BTW "free" can have different meanings depending on context and looks like some here are confusing them.

[Mechatrommer]

free energy does exist my friend! dont play with word please...
http://chemwiki.ucdavis.edu/Physical_Chemistry/Thermodynamics/State_Functions/Free_Energy/Gibbs_Free_Energy/What_Is_"free"_energy
edit: damn that link address is hard

and people have been using the word...
http://www.freeenergysystems.org
http://www.freenergy.co.nz

[xrunner]

free energy does exist my friend! dont play with word please...
http://chemwiki.ucdavis.edu/Physical_Chemistry/Thermodynamics/State_Functions/Free_Energy/Gibbs_Free_Energy/What_Is_"free"_energy

That's not quackery, it's energy available to do work. It doesn't come out of nowhere.

In thermodynamics, the Helmholtz free energy is deemed as a thermodynamic potential which calculates the “useful” work retrievable from a closed thermodynamic system at a constant temperature and volume.

[Mechatrommer]

free energy does exist my friend! dont play with word please...
http://chemwiki.ucdavis.edu/Physical_Chemistry/Thermodynamics/State_Functions/Free_Energy/Gibbs_Free_Energy/What_Is_"free"_energy

That's not quackery, it's energy available to do work. It doesn't come out of nowhere.

In thermodynamics, the Helmholtz free energy is deemed as a thermodynamic potential which calculates the “useful” work retrievable from a closed thermodynamic system at a constant temperature and volume.

yes but its called "free energy" right? what i see in this thread is trying to teach people the "free energy" is the "energy from nothing", hence the taboo of "free energy" word. granted even the video in OP trying to say so, thats misleading just as everyone that tried to... every replies in this thread is now implying that meaning... "energy from nothing". funny! free energy study is perfectly valid, is just that the attempt or procedure to conduct it is wrong in the video. one should make the same setup but in more proper, scientific way. ruling it out bluntly is a "disservice" to the science. didnt someone taught if you dont like it ignore it? this is a hate thread in the "design and technical" section

[xrunner]

yes but its called "free energy" right?

Yes, but the meaning is not the same as the meaning the quacks are implying when they demonstrate free energy.

free energy study is perfectly valid,

Sure, you can study anything you want to, no problem at all. But there are no studies to date that have had any critical scientific peer validation that prove such a thing as Free Energy (the meaning the quacks use) exists. So study your a$$ off about it, but don't come back until you have independent validation of your claims.