New product: tinyGTC, GNSS disciplined oscillator and universal 2 input Timer an

[erikka]

This week the sales will start of a new product in the tiny family.
A GNSS disciplined oscillator and two input universal Timer and gap-less reciprocal frequency counter, in short: tinyGTC
The tinyGTC is an extremely accurate (12 digits/s) frequency counter that can measure time, frequency, count and phase.
Time resolution is 40 ps. Input frequencies for both inputs are between 0.1 Hz (unlimited time measurements) and 350 MHz. Input A has an optional GHz pre-scaler extending the frequency input range to 7 or 12 GHz
It has a built-in GPSDO using a good quality TCXO and an external GPS antenna (included) and it can output maximum 2 flexible frequencies.
Is is designed to provide optimal input to tools like Timelab for true gap-less phase based ADEV measurements.
The set of software and communication features is comparable to modern high end counters.
Due to the small size and the low cost the tinyGTC has, compared to modern high end counters, less input protection, less data memory and lower maximum measurement speed.
More information can be found in the tinydevices wiki:  https://www.tinydevices.org/

[grx]

Thats an interesting looking device!

Does anyone know how the system operates internally, in order to reach such timing resolution?

[erikka]

It uses TDC"s like the TDC7200

[bingo600]

Offered here
https://www.eleshop.nl/catalogsearch/result/?q=tinygtc

[grx]

Given the spec mentions picoseconds but the refclk is 10 MHz I expected something like a TDC, but more technical details would be welcome.

I have no idea if anyone has one already, and if any internal pictures are available anywhere.
A schematic would be ideal but I'm not expecting that much

[erikka]

See https://www.tinydevices.org/wiki/pmwiki.php?n=TinyGTC.Internals

[hwalker]

Additional tinyGTC development info containing some photos of hardware at different stages.  From a recent seminar given by Erik in the Netherlands.

https://www.rfseminar.nl/cms/wp-content/uploads/2025/10/RF_Seminar_Counter_design_Erik.pdf

Herb

[KedasProbe]

Ordered the 7Ghz version....because I'm curious (I also have the tinyPFA)

[Astralix]

I love the idea to put the abilities of a Pendulum counter into something affordable.

But there are reasons why all and every counter has low-speed high voltage and high-speed low-voltage inputs. Even the design makes it very practical for field use, the missing robustness of the inputs prohibits that.

And finally the form factor just kills it for me. All those flat tablet like things crowding my desk, needing more space than the DUT itself. Also all the cables coming from the top dangling in front of everything. And putting them on the shelf behind the DUT just a little pull on the test lead makes them toppling over.

Build it into a case that that can be put between a bench top multimeter and power supply, put the test lead connectors below or aside the LCD and make the batteries optional. Even that may cost 200USD more, I would buy it.

[NE666]

And maybe engage someone with UX/UI experience to do the GUI. That thing is eye cancer.

Less is more, and more screens with less info crammed into each would be a significant improvement.

[erikka]

The UI is fully configurable. Please help me to understand what is wrong

[NE666]

To be fair, that does seem better. However, the impression it still gives is that quite a lot of the text is rendered rather small, on a relatively small screen. Some of us older folks don't find that so comfortable to use.

Since I've not seen one in reality, and can't find any physical dimensions for it, I could be wrong. And I'll bracket it all by saying that it's not my intention to deliberately offend, nor to just throw eggs at your achievements.

Nonetheless, I think it could be improved if there were scope to hide a lot of things that I may not be using/interested in at any one point in time (e.g. display only one channel's counter and status, and lose the timeclock, battery, output status etc.), and make better use of the resulting extra screen space for larger text and controls. I'm not a fan of button text which runs horizontal in some cases but vertical in others. I'm also not sure why the colours used for the channel config/status panels (green and pink in the initial screenshot) wouldn't then be the same colours used for their respective frequency counter displays below.

As I said, I've not seen one in real life yet, so I'm prepared to concede that my initial impressions might be unfounded.

[erikka]

The display is 4" so for sure not big.
For those that have problems with this size I have create a remote desktop utility (a very small PC program) that can mirror and enlarge the display on a PC screen and you can control the device using a mouse from the PC.

[erikka]

You can also get rid of the plot but nothing more
Unfortunately the amount of digits is to big to show much larger numbers

[KedasProbe]

I assume I can easily check if a PPS source is correct since it should have zero phase difference with your device GPS signal?

I also will try to measure the phase over time of 3 independent 10MHz sources.
Not sure how the software settings go, but it should be possible from what I understood.

P.S. thanks for the monitor screen up-scale, I will need that.

[erikka]

Below the screen capture of the setup for measuring 3 clocks simultaneously
And after sending them together to Timelab you can do the 3-cornered hat ADEV
Wat is shown below if the noise floor of the tinyGTC, can't measure sources with stability better then shown

[erikka]

I'm also not sure why the colours used for the channel config/status panels (green and pink in the initial screenshot) wouldn't then be the same colours used for their respective frequency counter displays below.

The inputs and the counters are not hard coupled when in Advanced menu mode ( a kind of expert mode). You can measure the Pos Width of input A using counter 1 and counter 2. One triggers on the up edge and the other on the down edge. The time difference between the timestamps is the Pos Width
Of you have two counters with different gate time monitoring the same input. One fast to check for jitter, the other slow checking the frequency drift using a longer gate period
But this is all in advanced menu mode.
It may indeed be a good suggestion to make the colors the same when in basic menu mode when there is a hard link between an input and a counter

[hwalker]

Also all the cables coming from the top dangling in front of everything. And putting them on the shelf behind the DUT just a little pull on the test lead makes them toppling over.

The UI is user configurable, and the display has a menu option so it can be flipped so that the cables now exit from the bottom.

[KedasProbe]

@erikka
About the 1Hz small BW 'random' chosen freq with less measurement accuracy,:
Do you know if expensive counters/timers have a solution for that or are they just not mentioning it?

Maybe they duplicate hardware and choose after the measurement which of the two to use hence covering this small spot. (obviously making it more expensive for little return)

I think on the BG7TBL FA-5 I saw such effect when the count for a chosen gatetime is 10M, not sure if that is the same effect since it looks much wider than 1Hz, but because I know I can work around it with an different gate time.

BTW amazing the amount of settings/features you pack in it for such low price. (assuming it works  )

[erikka]

@erikka
About the 1Hz small BW 'random' chosen freq with less measurement accuracy,:
Do you know if expensive counters/timers have a solution for that or are they just not mentioning it?

For sure HP did have this "accuracy gap" as they mentioned it in their specification (using other words)
Not sure about modern counters. It takes a long time to detect this frequency with any certainty

[KedasProbe]

I received mine.
I will have some time this weekend to test it.

I just turned it on and I have a few things I noticed:
- HW version on the device is 0.2.8 but in the software it says HW 1.1 (it probably makes sense but is confusing)
- For the tinyRemote.exe the scaling was not sharp, I checked 'Overwrite high DPI scaling behavior' for the exe that fixed it.
(it's a case of windows thinking it is smarter)
- In the tinyRemote.exe GUI you need to select Auto Refresh, default it's off.
(otherwise you are stuck on the same screen, the mouse still works on the device though)
- it adds 3 COM ports each with their own function, the tinyRemote has no problem finding it but no auto reconnect.
- scaling 200% is not saved for next time you start it.
- Auto Refresh checkmark isn't always correct. (on when I start but is off, after pressing on screen with the mouse it's updated)
- brightness and viewing angles are good.
- Weight including GPS antenna is about 250g. It has weight, if you drop it, likely something will break. (normal, it's not a high end smartphone)
-There is some short screen flicker on the device when the menu bar is removed.
-Correct UTC time is displayed
- SW version tinyMonitor.exe: has no version number?
- SW version tinyGTC:  V0.1-510
- Build date Oct 23 2025
- USB disconnect during monitor makes it very slow CPU 99% (restart required)


First start up screen attached, later a real test.

Edit, I saw I'm like 10 software versions behind, so I will update first.

[Astralix]

You can also get rid of the plot but nothing more
Unfortunately the amount of digits is to big to show much larger numbers

Again a lot of wasted space on the screen. Why don't you move the MHz above the number and then use the full width of the screen to display the number?
And yellow is a warning color. Red is an alarm. Use black grey and blue. You can use yellow numbers on black background to have less of an intensity bleeding, but I'd prefer grey or bright gray. This isn't a desk light it is a display showing data.

It is a Chinese thing to be the brightest star on the shelf. But in reality it is stressful to have that bright spot light in sight all the day. And it is very uncomfortable for someone recording or streaming as you always have to switch that thing off when you don't use it. While other instruments can stay on 24/7 without trying to bring their display to attention all the time.

[KedasProbe]

Leaving either input connected to an external source for an extended period of time with the tinyGTC switched off will damage your device.

from https://www.tinydevices.org/wiki/pmwiki.php?n=TinyGTC.Safeoperation

Is this expected ESD or Heat or not being able to handle the voltage when it's off?

[erikka]

Is this expected ESD or Heat or not being able to handle the voltage when it's off?

We had one beta tester reporting this issue. Further testing did not show an acute problem but it is not completely ruled out. The warning is just to be sure.

[erikka]

Short video: