Windows 11 is dying....

[Cyclotron]

If I installed AV software it would immediately slow the computer to a crawl, sometimes give false positives and always cause problems with other software. No thanks.

Slow to a crawl? Sometimes give false positives? Always cause problems with other software?

Where on earth did you get all that from? Something you read? Because it's certainly not from experience. Antivirus products have a low single-digit extra CPU load. Usually the only way to notice it is to run a benchmark program.

The last time I had a false positive was back in the DOS days, when viruses and antivirus programs, were in their infancy.

And especially "always causes problems with other software"? I call bullshit! I've never experienced it and never read about it in all the years of reading antivirus reviews. NEVER. If it does happen it must be extraordinarily rare, and emphatically NOT "always".

Honestly, I don't know why people can't just speak truthfully and unemotionally about this stuff instead of all this exaggeration.

Microsoft leaned into security because it is a major target, and most people don't give it credit for the work and success it has had.
One of the primary reasons you no longer have the issues or loads associated with AV and Anti-malware is these security products can take advantage of the M$ work.

Secure boot and kernel signature verification are great stuff. M$ also digitally signs their entire set of OS files, drivers, etc etc. They will warn you if you try to run code that isn't signed.

AV and AM products use these features. They validate signatures and checksums, which avoids scanning large portions of the file system. Only the User's created or downloaded files, etc., must be scanned. There are then "reputation" checksums. This is a feature of modern security tools that many people are unaware of. Every file the security software scans is assigned a signature. That data is shared across the security software industry to determine the reputation of files in general. This greatly speeds up future checks on non-signed content. If you want to know worrisome stuff about this feature, that's a topic in itself.

Many of these practices have made it to Linux, but the big problem on the Linux side is the widespread practice of disabling Secure Boot. The AV products on Linux trust GPG signatures, but if the system isn't secure from boot (secure boot disabled), it's a defeated system.

[Zero999]

One important reason I stuck with Win XP and Office Word 2003 was that I refused to use that ribbon nonsense.

How interesting that two people could have such very different opinions of the same thing! I haven't seen any other WIMP UI elements attract such controversy.

Make that three. I don't get on with the Ribbon interface. It's the main reason I use LibreOffice, which also gives you a choice of interface.

[SteveThackery]

It's the main reason I use LibreOffice, which also gives you a choice of interface.

I do find it interesting how much people differ in their perception of software programs. I strongly dislike LibreOffice, but I'm the first to admit that liking and disliking is purely subjective and irrational. I haven't yet found a single Linux desktop application* that I enjoy using, unfortunately, although Inkscape gets close.

*Not counting SoftMaker Office because that's cross-platform rather than just Linux.

[PlainName]

Inkscape is multi-platform too.

[TizianoHV]

*Not counting SoftMaker Office because that's cross-platform rather than just Linux.

Thankyou very much 
Almost all the GUI programs that I use on Linux are available on Windows (or are close imitations). And it is a good thing so you can try them before switching.

The gnome calculator is quite good

[SteveThackery]

Inkscape is multi-platform too.

OK, thanks, but on Windows I can use Visio, which wipes the floor with anything on Linux when it comes to technical drawings.

[peter-h]

Microsoft leaned into security because it is a major target, and most people don't give it credit for the work and success it has had.

That is true but AIUI the security issues were largely of M$'s own doing, because of the messaging system which windows uses internally was easy to compromise.

Also the reason why it took them literally decades to iron out the buffer overflow issues was because everybody was using their libraries and these contained code which did not check buffers.

Secure boot and kernel signature verification are great stuff.

Is it really, for the common attack vectors? The boot is surely invoked only when you boot

[SteveThackery]

*Not counting SoftMaker Office because that's cross-platform rather than just Linux.

Thankyou very much 

Sorry - don't get the joke, but I'm glad you are amused. 😄

Almost all the GUI programs that I use on Linux are available on Windows (or are close imitations). And it is a good thing so you can try them before switching.

Well, I guess so, but I've got Mint and Zorin here for trying stuff out.

[Monkeh]

*Not counting SoftMaker Office because that's cross-platform rather than just Linux.

So is KiCAD, and Audacity, both of which you've mentioned using.

Cross-platform software is very common. Almost everything you'd call a 'Linux app' which extends beyond basic system utilities is, in fact, a cross-platform tool, whether it be GUI or not.

[m k]

Nowadays I rant because poking keyboard for command line take ages, but task is still too small for scripting.
(GUI would be just click'n'clack)
Ergonomics is usually also far from optimal.

Maybe a GUI based terminal extension for command history would do it, atuin seems to be graphical.

[Zero999]

It's the main reason I use LibreOffice, which also gives you a choice of interface.

I do find it interesting how much people differ in their perception of software programs. I strongly dislike LibreOffice, but I'm the first to admit that liking and disliking is purely subjective and irrational.

I don't think my preference is irrational. I have used many different pieces of software with a variety of interfaces in the past and MS Ribbon is one of the worst. It takes more clicks to get the same thing done. For example, with LibraOffice, one click can take me to the open file dialogue box, with a list of files, whereas it takes two clicks with MS Ribbon.

[Cyclotron]

Secure boot and kernel signature verification are great stuff.

Is it really, for the common attack vectors? The boot is surely invoked only when you boot

Vectors? Not since shareware and floppies.

But the chain of trust is important to defend the castle. Persistent threats also love to infest systems without such protections.

[Cyclotron]

It's the main reason I use LibreOffice, which also gives you a choice of interface.

I do find it interesting how much people differ in their perception of software programs. I strongly dislike LibreOffice, but I'm the first to admit that liking and disliking is purely subjective and irrational.

I don't think my preference is irrational. I have used many different pieces of software with a variety of interfaces in the past and MS Ribbon is one of the worst. It takes more clicks to get the same thing done. For example, with LibraOffice, one click can take me to the open file dialogue box, with a list of files, whereas it takes two clicks with MS Ribbon.

I don't find preferences to be irrational.

I must say, it's been a minute since I ran Word on Windows. On my daily driver (macOS), one click opens the file menu, but I typically use keyboard shortcuts for most of my work.

Keyboard shortcuts were something that really had me for a bit when I moved from Windows as a daily driver to macOS. Not having to use the mouse is a big time saver.

[peter-h]

In theory, but very few attacks require a reboot to do the damage.

IMHO this stuff is just a way for M$ to force large scale hardware disposal, among corporates who have to tick the box, and among private users who don't know any better. The mandatory hardware disposal reduces support issues and general user dissatisfaction because everybody will have similar (new) hardware. It is a way to clean out old machines, and slow machines.

Extremely cynical. I have a Dell laptop, cost GBP 1.8k in 2018. Not win11 compliant (no TPM I think). Great thin laptop, quad core i7, very fast for even video editing.

[SteveThackery]

I don't think my preference is irrational. I have used many different pieces of software with a variety of interfaces in the past and MS Ribbon is one of the worst. It takes more clicks to get the same thing done. For example, with LibraOffice, one click can take me to the open file dialogue box, with a list of files, whereas it takes two clicks with MS Ribbon.

I'm not at my PC: what's that little toolbar called that sits above the ribbon? Anyway, I customise that with the following:

New
Open
Save
Save As
Close
---
Print Preview
Print
---
Undo
Redo

So I've got one-click access to all of those.

[Cyclotron]

In theory, but very few attacks require a reboot to do the damage.

IMHO this stuff is just a way for M$ to force large scale hardware disposal, among corporates who have to tick the box, and among private users who don't know any better. The mandatory hardware disposal reduces support issues and general user dissatisfaction because everybody will have similar (new) hardware. It is a way to clean out old machines, and slow machines.

Extremely cynical. I have a Dell laptop, cost GBP 1.8k in 2018. Not win11 compliant (no TPM I think). Great thin laptop, quad core i7, very fast for even video editing.

I have no issues with cynicism; I have developed a wide streak of it myself.

I would direct some of that cynicism at the OEMs. In June/July 2015, Microsoft encouraged OEMs to adopt the new ISO/IEC 11889:2015 standard (TPM 2.0), which highlighted the importance of its adoption in improving trust in IT products. Microsoft attempted to make TPM a requirement for Windows 8.1, but OEMs pushed, and Microsoft caved.

On July 28 2016, Microsoft told OEMs that TPM 2.0 was a requirement. OEMs used it very effectively to obsolete huge amounts of gear.
Apple had its own TPM (Secure Enclave) since 2013.

[Zero999]

I don't think my preference is irrational. I have used many different pieces of software with a variety of interfaces in the past and MS Ribbon is one of the worst. It takes more clicks to get the same thing done. For example, with LibraOffice, one click can take me to the open file dialogue box, with a list of files, whereas it takes two clicks with MS Ribbon.

I'm not at my PC: what's that little toolbar called that sits above the ribbon? Anyway, I customise that with the following:

New
Open
Save
Save As
Close
---
Print Preview
Print
---
Undo
Redo

So I've got one-click access to all of those.

I've just done that on an MS Office machine at work and it still requires two clicks to take me to the list of files. The first brings up another menu, listing recently opened files, which offensively covers the whole screen and a second is required, click browse, to take me to the list of files.

Clicking on the open icon in LibreOffice takes me straight to the list of files.

It's the main reason I use LibreOffice, which also gives you a choice of interface.

I do find it interesting how much people differ in their perception of software programs. I strongly dislike LibreOffice, but I'm the first to admit that liking and disliking is purely subjective and irrational.

I don't think my preference is irrational. I have used many different pieces of software with a variety of interfaces in the past and MS Ribbon is one of the worst. It takes more clicks to get the same thing done. For example, with LibraOffice, one click can take me to the open file dialogue box, with a list of files, whereas it takes two clicks with MS Ribbon.

I don't find preferences to be irrational.

I must say, it's been a minute since I ran Word on Windows. On my daily driver (macOS), one click opens the file menu, but I typically use keyboard shortcuts for most of my work.

Keyboard shortcuts were something that really had me for a bit when I moved from Windows as a daily driver to macOS. Not having to use the mouse is a big time saver.

I've never used MS Office on a Mac. When I bought a Mac for my nephews, the first thing I installed on it was LibreOffice.

I've tried the keyboard shortcut on MS Office on a Windows PC at work and it just takes be to another menu, see above, and I then have to click browse to get the file listing.

[JPortici]

Even winXP will never get infected just by being internet-connected.

Disagree.

[SteveThackery]

I've just done that on an MS Office machine at work and it still requires two clicks to take me to the list of files. The first brings up another menu, listing recently opened files, which offensively covers the whole screen and a second is required, click browse, to take me to the list of files.

Clicking on the open icon in LibreOffice takes me straight to the list of files.

Oh, but wait, that's got nothing to do with the ribbon. It's Microsoft's bloody stupid idea of what a File | Open dialog should look like. As you say, it covers the whole bloody screen (another example of foisting a touch UI onto keyboard/mouse users), it assumes everything is on One Drive, and you have to click the Browse button to access your local storage. I hate it, I've always hated it, but it has nothing to do with the ribbon. For example, SoftMaker TextMaker has a ribbon and uses a normal dialog. In fact I seem to remember the earlier versions of Word had a ribbon and a standard dialog.

[SteveThackery]

Even winXP will never get infected just by being internet-connected.

Disagree.

Your router's NAT will protect it.

[Siwastaja]

Even winXP will never get infected just by being internet-connected.

Disagree.

Your router's NAT will protect it.

Back when Windows XP was relevant, it was much more common not to have a home router, but plug in to some DSL modem directly (or through a switch), ISP giving you a public IP address.

Yes, Windows XP getting infected on its own "within minutes" was a well-known anecdote. Not sure how common that really was, but I'm also sure that peter-h is wrong saying it never happened.

[Karel]

Winmodem, anybody...?

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Softmodem&useskin=vector

 

[paulca]

[Zero999]

I've just done that on an MS Office machine at work and it still requires two clicks to take me to the list of files. The first brings up another menu, listing recently opened files, which offensively covers the whole screen and a second is required, click browse, to take me to the list of files.

Clicking on the open icon in LibreOffice takes me straight to the list of files.

Oh, but wait, that's got nothing to do with the ribbon. It's Microsoft's bloody stupid idea of what a File | Open dialog should look like. As you say, it covers the whole bloody screen (another example of foisting a touch UI onto keyboard/mouse users), it assumes everything is on One Drive, and you have to click the Browse button to access your local storage. I hate it, I've always hated it, but it has nothing to do with the ribbon. For example, SoftMaker TextMaker has a ribbon and uses a normal dialog. In fact I seem to remember the earlier versions of Word had a ribbon and a standard dialog.

It's not tabbed toolbars which are the problem. I've used them before. TINA had over one a decade before MS Office. As with many things with Microsoft, it's the implementation which is uniquely bad.

[paulca]

Winmodem, anybody...?

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Softmodem&useskin=vector

 

Those and the "modem riser" slots.  Absolute curse on Linux.  I ended up buying a US robotics external.

Then broadband landed.  I made a bit of money providing "IT Support" which involved replacing the ubiquitous USB modems with external routers for many private and commercial customers.  I even sold a service where I took one of their ageing PCs, put 2 NICs in it, a custom CDRom boot - no harddisk at all firewall.