Windows 11 is dying....

[madires]

They will pay the Windows tax when they buy the hardware anyway unless they put out a bid for hardware specifically without Windows licenses and that's likely to be more expensive that the generic hardware that comes with it.   

Some PC and laptop models are also sold without any OS and are about 30 bucks less than the version with Windows (exactly the same hardware). And organizations running Windows Enterprise don't like to waste money on licenses they don't need, i.e. Windows Professional.

[SteveThackery]

They will pay the Windows tax when they buy the hardware anyway unless they put out a bid for hardware specifically without Windows licenses and that's likely to be more expensive that the generic hardware that comes with it.   

Why on earth would they be more expensive? Look, when a customer approaches a supplier wanting to order thousands or tens of thousands of PCs, you can be absolutely sure that - if they don't want Windows installing - then they won't be paying any Windows tax. Purchases of that magnitude give the purchaser some serious negotiating power.

[paulca]

Once you get above "SOHO" the 'bare metal' hardware will not be running Windows, or Linux or any particular OS.  The bare metal hardware will boot a Federated Hypervisor, possibly with a USB key to configure it and then the rack closed.  That server just gets added to the "pool".  Going up a little further and the hardware stops being called "A server" and divides up across the rack with "compute blades", "SANs", etc.  In that world Windows exists as VMs.  So does Linux.

The only place you will see Windows running on bare metal are desktops and conference room TVs.

EDIT: That said.  A large org like a bank might upgrade their desktop PCs in bulk every 3-4 years.  Sometimes less.  When the hardware shifted towards power savings and halved the wattage of desktops, large orgs did the maths and upgraded their entire fleet within a year.

I remember having a smoke out of the back of the office watching men loading pallet cage trolleys into a lorry.  Literally about 50 desktops on a pallete, more pallets of monitors and one of just keyboards and mice.

Those would hard disk-less.  Those go through a crusher on site.  Shops out there will buy the "job lot", fit cheap SSDs to them and sell them for £100 on ebay.

When you are commissioning 3,000-5,000 desktops all at once, you aren't dealing with the retail end of things.  You are probably having multiple zoom calls with your enterprise account manager negotiating.

[Cyclotron]

They will pay the Windows tax when they buy the hardware anyway unless they put out a bid for hardware specifically without Windows licenses and that's likely to be more expensive that the generic hardware that comes with it.   

Why on earth would they be more expensive? Look, when a customer approaches a supplier wanting to order thousands or tens of thousands of PCs, you can be absolutely sure that - if they don't want Windows installing - then they won't be paying any Windows tax. Purchases of that magnitude give the purchaser some serious negotiating power.

I only say its likely, I don't know for sure. My personal experience with government special orders is they tend to cost more. I'm sure anyone can find an example of buying one unit costing less but that's not how governments purchase typically.

The other part is that the gear is likely still licensed for Windows. For example, Lenovo will sell you a laptop without Windows installed, they will sell you one with Linux installed. But the system will still come with a windows license and activation key embedded. At least the examples I've seen were like that with the activation key embedded in the UEFI.

As for other OEMs, HP, Dell, etc. I quickly searched and what I see is that anecdotally these other OEMs do the same thing for the few cases that orders are for non-windows. That equipment still has the Windows activation key and you can likely bet that MS is getting paid.

Maybe some OEMs have a fully automated way to eliminate the Windows key and deliver the units blank but I doubt it. I would call these special orders and that's why I feel they would be more expensive.

[SteveThackery]

As for other OEMs, HP, Dell, etc. I quickly searched and what I see is that anecdotally these other OEMs do the same thing for the few cases that orders are for non-windows.

Exactly - for the few cases. But when it's for thousands? In those cases the buyer gets what they want, if the supplier wants to stay in business.

Maybe some OEMs have a fully automated way to eliminate the Windows key and deliver the units blank but I doubt it. I would call these special orders and that's why I feel they would be more expensive.

I completely agree, for small volumes. For large volumes a little inconvenience is worth it.

[Cyclotron]

As for other OEMs, HP, Dell, etc. I quickly searched and what I see is that anecdotally these other OEMs do the same thing for the few cases that orders are for non-windows.

Exactly - for the few cases. But when it's for thousands? In those cases the buyer gets what they want, if the supplier wants to stay in business.

Maybe some OEMs have a fully automated way to eliminate the Windows key and deliver the units blank but I doubt it. I would call these special orders and that's why I feel they would be more expensive.

I completely agree, for small volumes. For large volumes a little inconvenience is worth it.

Good points. I would wonder what numbers might make it worth it to change the manufacturing process. There's about 280 million PCs shipped a year. The French aren't likely to throw out the baby with the bath water and replace all PCs at the same time. If we look at the 2.5 million they have they might have a 5 year life cycle and that would put the order at 500k then they probably order 40k per month but that's broken up in 10s of sub orgs. So each order might be a few hundred pre month once in full swing.  In in case, this would represent 0.18% of the manufactured computers

So I wonder if what may be less than 1% of a manufacturer's orders is enough for them to change the manufacturing process, track, package, and store separately.

[PlainName]

I am not convinced. AFAIA the invoice for the PC wouldn't list the OS as a separate item. Sure, it will be something like "Intel i13, 16GB DDR5, Windows 11 OEM, etc", but it's just the same as the CPU, RAM and anything else on there - it's part of the price. So if a big buyer demanded the PC without OS then they would likely just leave that item off the invoice but it may still be there (see next para). Sure, there will be a big discount but they might well get that anyway regardless of OS: the vendor is happy it's a normal discount; the buyer is happy they got some off for not having an OS.

But... the OS might be no cost to the vendor. I am fairly sure that at one time Microsoft paid vendors to include Windows, so having the PC without did really legitimately cost more. Why would Microsoft do that? Ensure Windows gets into all the cracks and down the back of the sofa. Particularly with a big customer, just having them use Windows is a money spinner for Microsoft, so if it costs a couple of bob to ensure they do get Windows, that's just the price of doing business.

[Cyclotron]

I am not convinced. AFAIA the invoice for the PC wouldn't list the OS as a separate item. Sure, it will be something like "Intel i13, 16GB DDR5, Windows 11 OEM, etc", but it's just the same as the CPU, RAM and anything else on there - it's part of the price. So if a big buyer demanded the PC without OS then they would likely just leave that item off the invoice but it may still be there (see next para). Sure, there will be a big discount but they might well get that anyway regardless of OS: the vendor is happy it's a normal discount; the buyer is happy they got some off for not having an OS.

But... the OS might be no cost to the vendor. I am fairly sure that at one time Microsoft paid vendors to include Windows, so having the PC without did really legitimately cost more. Why would Microsoft do that? Ensure Windows gets into all the cracks and down the back of the sofa. Particularly with a big customer, just having them use Windows is a money spinner for Microsoft, so if it costs a couple of bob to ensure they do get Windows, that's just the price of doing business.

Agreed. I would guess there's a lot of interesting things in those backend OEM license deals. Some, I'm sure, are of them are related to quantities and OEMs could really shoot themselves in the foot. It's in MS's best interest to make sure the OEMs include the license regardless so I wouldn't be surprised if they stipulate it in their bulk agreements.

Certainly it is MS that requires the activation code to be burnt into the UEFI because I am not aware of any other use for that feature.

In the end, I think you're probably right. The negotiated price/invoice may tell them what they want to hear but the truth is likely the cost is the same. Margins on computers is likely 1-3%. That and the fact that appeasing MS is far more important to the OEMs than a possible less than 1% deal per year is going to be a factor.

[SteveThackery]

Agreed. I would guess there's a lot of interesting things in those backend OEM license deals. Some, I'm sure, are of them are related to quantities and OEMs could really shoot themselves in the foot. It's in MS's best interest to make sure the OEMs include the license regardless so I wouldn't be surprised if they stipulate it in their bulk agreements.

Certainly it is MS that requires the activation code to be burnt into the UEFI because I am not aware of any other use for that feature.

I still don't buy it, personally. Think about the enormous buying power of a national government on the scale of France. And think about burning a Windows activation code into the UEFI. That is a simple, discrete step in the manufacturing process, and there would be no technical problem just leaving that step out.

I simply don't believe that Microsoft has the legal right to bake Windows into every UEFI, regardless of where that motherboard (or whole computer) is destined.

If a buyer like the French government says it wants tens (hundreds?) of thousands of PCs per year for the next five years, and those PCs must not have any sniff of Microsoft baked in, then that is definitely what they will get. It is technically trivial, and I don't believe that Microsoft has some kind of magical power over the rest of the world that gives them control over every motherboard or PC manufactured. It's ridiculous.

And it's starting to sound dangerously close to a conspiracy theory.

[Cyclotron]

Agreed. I would guess there's a lot of interesting things in those backend OEM license deals. Some, I'm sure, are of them are related to quantities and OEMs could really shoot themselves in the foot. It's in MS's best interest to make sure the OEMs include the license regardless so I wouldn't be surprised if they stipulate it in their bulk agreements.

Certainly it is MS that requires the activation code to be burnt into the UEFI because I am not aware of any other use for that feature.

I still don't buy it, personally. Think about the enormous buying power of a national government on the scale of France. And think about burning a Windows activation code into the UEFI. That is a simple, discrete step in the manufacturing process, and there would be no technical problem just leaving that step out.

I simply don't believe that Microsoft has the legal right to bake Windows into every UEFI, regardless of where that motherboard (or whole computer) is destined.

If a buyer like the French government says it wants tens (hundreds?) of thousands of PCs per year for the next five years, and those PCs must not have any sniff of Microsoft baked in, then that is definitely what they will get. It is technically trivial, and I don't believe that Microsoft has some kind of magical power over the rest of the world that gives them control over every motherboard or PC manufactured. It's ridiculous.

And it's starting to sound dangerously close to a conspiracy theory.

Conspiracy theory? I am not calling the possible agreements illegal or treacherous so we can put the conspiracy portion to rest.  I am good with speculation or theory for sure.

I'm sure that if a customer demanded a product in any form or fashion they want, they would likely find a supplier. That doesn't mean it will be cheaper, though there's some logic to eliminating the $ 20 Windows license fee on the invoice. I would love to see them state that the computers "must not have any sniff of Microsoft baked in". 

Would I frame some of my comments here as speculation for lack of proof? Absolutely! My speculation is based on knowledge gained over the years of working in technology, with specific parts focused on {OEM-Partner/VAR-end customer} relationships.

There's a lot that's unknown and may not be knowable by the average person. We don't know how France and/or its government ministries will purchase. Maybe they buy through a VAR/Partner, maybe only from French OEMs. 

I don't think Microsoft has a "legal right to bake Windows into every UEFI" in the abstract, but they might have a contractual right with any particular OEM, and we simply don't know that. It's certainly happened before and was found illegal in the US:
https://caselaw.findlaw.com/court/us-4th-circuit/1114025.htm

I don't know what the legalities of such agreements are internationally. The simple way to avoid a legal problem is for the OEM not to recognize the license as a cost applied to the purchaser.

[Ranayna]

They will pay the Windows tax when they buy the hardware anyway unless they put out a bid for hardware specifically without Windows licenses and that's likely to be more expensive that the generic hardware that comes with it.   

Some PC and laptop models are also sold without any OS and are about 30 bucks less than the version with Windows (exactly the same hardware). And organizations running Windows Enterprise don't like to waste money on licenses they don't need, i.e. Windows Professional.

Let me explain a "quirk" of Windows enterprise licensing...
Normal Enterprise Editions of Windows are only upgrade licenses. Which means you actually need a base license to use Enterprise editions. So the included license with virtually all OEM computers is actually quite useful to have, since getting the base licenses as well is most of the times more expensive than the OEM license.

[PlainName]

Think about the enormous buying power of a national government on the scale of France.

And think about how our government pretty much always spends far more than budgeted and generally makes a right sow's ear of things. Crapita is a classic example: they earned that nickname many times over, and yet they still get huge government contracts.

[SteveThackery]

Would I frame some of my comments here as speculation for lack of proof? Absolutely!. My speculation is based on knowledge gained over the years of working in technology with specific parts being with the {OEM-Partner/VAR-end customer} relationships.

And I want to be clear that I am speculating, too. Also, I have less relevant experience than you, so my opinion is entirely uninformed. Even so, I'm still of the view that the French government will get whatever they ask for.

On this subject, I think it's interesting that the main motivation for the move to Linux is to reduce dependency on American products and technology. I've long wondered why Linux-on-the-desktop hasn't already been embraced by large governmental organisations, but I guess the Microsoft licensing fees are cheap enough to discourage organisations from undergoing the inevitable upheaval during the changeover to Linux.  Also, maybe support contracts for Linux and its apps remove most of the cost advantage.

I have a suspicion that some of France's motivation is political - anti-American, basically. Primarily anti-Trump's America.

If France makes a go of it, maybe it will ripple through other European countries.

[Cyclotron]

Would I frame some of my comments here as speculation for lack of proof? Absolutely!. My speculation is based on knowledge gained over the years of working in technology with specific parts being with the {OEM-Partner/VAR-end customer} relationships.

And I want to be clear that I am speculating, too. Also, I have less relevant experience than you, so my opinion is entirely uninformed. Even so, I'm still of the view that the French government will get whatever they ask for.

On this subject, I think it's interesting that the main motivation for the move to Linux is to reduce dependency on American products and technology. I've long wondered why Linux-on-the-desktop hasn't already been embraced by large governmental organisations, but I guess the Microsoft licensing fees are cheap enough to discourage organisations from undergoing the inevitable upheaval during the changeover to Linux.  Also, maybe support contracts for Linux and its apps remove most of the cost advantage.

I have a suspicion that some of France's motivation is political - anti-American, basically. Primarily anti-Trump's America.

If France makes a go of it, maybe it will ripple through other European countries.

I agree with you on all of this.  The POTUS is certainly polarizing, and I can see your speculation being a big motivator. I believe it is wise and valid that all nations take their sovereignty, economic means, and defense very seriously. There's no reason France can't be successful in its objective, though I doubt it does much harm to Microsoft. Microsoft's revenue for Windows is less than 10%, so I don't think what France is up to on the OS side will matter much.

I think France's determination and methods of adoption will shape the outcomes. I also don't doubt there will be corporate pressures.

I suppose we blended two topics in this thread. I feel it's strongly related, though. I wonder what the world would be like if MS were forced to spin off the OS business into a separate company. I must say I doubt they'd do so willingly.   It gives them too much control and power. But I think a company focused on Windows or its successors would be a good thing for consumers.

[madires]

Let me explain a "quirk" of Windows enterprise licensing...
Normal Enterprise Editions of Windows are only upgrade licenses. Which means you actually need a base license to use Enterprise editions. So the included license with virtually all OEM computers is actually quite useful to have, since getting the base licenses as well is most of the times more expensive than the OEM license.

I see. Microsoft changed the licensing for Windows 11 Enterprise to "upgrade for Pro". And what about the volume license program?

[SteveThackery]

But I think a company focused on Windows or its successors would be a good thing for consumers.

Me too! Also on my "ain't never gonna happen" wishlist is to split Windows into two parallel products: one with a touch-oriented UI (say what you like about W8, it was a delight to use on a tablet), and one with a WIMP display for keyboard/mouse users (a mildly updated W7 UI would be great). I miss my checkboxes and radio buttons, and the compact dialogs that don't take up the entire screen. I think Apple got it right with the iOS/macOS pair.

I am firmly of the view that Microsoft's decision to pursue "one UI for every platform" has led to a half-baked mess, especially for workstation users with keyboard and mouse. I reckon my mouse mileage at least doubled between W7 and W10.

Ah, well, back to the real world.....

[Ranayna]

Let me explain a "quirk" of Windows enterprise licensing...
Normal Enterprise Editions of Windows are only upgrade licenses. Which means you actually need a base license to use Enterprise editions. So the included license with virtually all OEM computers is actually quite useful to have, since getting the base licenses as well is most of the times more expensive than the OEM license.

I see. Microsoft changed the licensing for Windows 11 Enterprise to "upgrade for Pro". And what about the volume license program?

That is not a change. Afaik this was always the case in the volume license program in particular.

EDIT:
https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/whats-new/windows-licensing
Heres a link to an Overview. Even the subscriptions require an existing Windows Pro license.
/EDIT

The company i work at was bitten by that in the Windows 7 days. We bought a lot of PCs without the usually included windows license, because they were cheaper.
We were bitten when a licensing audit happened. We thought we were fine, and audits in the past usually resulted in savings because inevitably some licenses get overprovisioned.

But that time they noticed that we did not have OEM licenses for a set of PCs and we needed to buy these directly from MS for quite a bit more money than we saved from buying PCs without the license.

[BrianHG]

[MrMobodies]

I'd never thought they'd release another one of these past 2021 when they decided to reduce that one to three years of support.

https://www.windowslatest.com/2026/03/04/i-tested-windows-11-ltsc-in-2026-and-its-the-best-version-of-windows-11-without-copilot-ai-and-other-bloat/

I tested Windows 11 LTSC in 2026, and it’s the best version of Windows 11 without Copilot, AI and other bloat
By Abhijith M B - March 4, 2026 0


Windows 11 in 2026 is a far cry from what it was at launch. The world’s most popular desktop operating system now banks on AI, which has pretty much invaded all the first-party apps and OS features. And this happens while Windows 11 suffers from new bugs and issues with every feature update.

But what if there was a version of Windows 11, with zero bloatware, no marketing push, no frequent updates, and of course, no Copilot icon staring at you from the taskbar. It actually exists and is called Windows 11 LTSC, which is a special edition of Windows designed for stability and meant to be used in enterprises and specialized environments.

I have installed Windows 11 LTSC on my system and have been testing it for the past several days, and so far, it feels like a version of Windows that’s too good to be true.
What is Windows 11 LTSC?

Unlike macOS, Windows has several editions that Microsoft designed for different purposes. There’s the Home variant for the vast majority of regular users, Pro for professionals, small businesses, and power users, and Enterprise for corporations with an IT infrastructure.

While these are the popular ones, there’s also Windows 11 Pro for Workstations, designed for professionals who need extreme performance, and Windows 11 IoT Enterprise, made for specialized embedded devices.

Microsoft designed the last one, Windows 11 IoT Enterprise, for organizations that have no use for new features, Copilot, or any of the newer Windows 11 apps. This leaner version of the OS is called Windows 11 LTSC. It’s a part of the LTSC (long-term servicing channel) servicing model, where users can delay feature updates  and get only monthly quality updates for 10 years  , with optional feature updates every 3 years  , which users can skip if they don’t need them. 

Windows 11 LTSC has only Microsoft Edge as a modern app

Windows 11 LTSC is so stripped down that the only modern application that comes preloaded is Microsoft Edge, with the other apps being the classic versions of Calculator, Notepad, and Microsoft Paint. Naturally, there isn’t any Copilot integration in Windows 11 LTSC, and it doesn’t come with the Microsoft Store either.  Even the Widgets and Discover feed in the taskbar is unavailable. 

You also do not need to sign into a Microsoft account to use Windows 11 IoT Enterprise  , making this the only version of Windows 11 that allows you run it with a Local Account.
Windows 11 LTSC running with a local account

LTSC did not start with Windows 11. Its roots go back to Windows 10, when Microsoft introduced LTSB, short for Long-Term Servicing Branch. LTSB was created for mission-critical systems that could not afford frequent changes.

In 2016, Microsoft renamed LTSB to LTSC. Windows 10 LTSC 2019 and later Windows 10 LTSC 2021 became popular among enthusiasts as well.

When Windows 11 launched, there was no immediate LTSC counterpart. Microsoft was leaning heavily into services, subscriptions, Microsoft 365 integration, and eventually AI. It took time before a Windows 11 LTSC build arrived, partly because Windows 11 itself was evolving rapidly. LTSC requires a stable base, and Windows 11 needed to mature before Microsoft could freeze a version for long-term servicing.

Eventually, Windows 11 LTSC was officially announced by Microsoft in April 2023. Then, as part of the Windows 11 24H2 release cycle, Microsoft launched both Windows 11 Enterprise LTSC and Windows 11 IoT Enterprise LTSC editions together under the “Windows 11 LTSC 2024” branding by the second half of 2024.

Windows 11 LTSC is intended for:

Large organizations (banks, hospitals, government offices) that need a consistent, secure OS.
Industrial and embedded systems (ATMs, medical devices, kiosks)
Some IT departments that want fewer updates to manage across thousands of machines.
IoT devices that require up to 10 years of support.

So the question has to be asked. Is it possible for regular users download and install Windows 11 LTSC?

A minimal version of Windows without AI apps and bloatware is right up the alley for a vast number of users in 2026, and fortunately, Microsoft does allow general users to download and install Windows 11 LTSC for an evaluation period of 90 days.
...
But if you want to install any apps from the Microsoft Store, you’d first have to download the Microsoft Store  . Trying to download the Brave browser from the Store doesn’t work as expected, and I had to first download the Store.

Maybe worth me looking at and if the modifications work from that Windows 11 pro last month on this one that'd be great.
Isn't that nice and something good for a change, a choice whether I want the store there or not.

I can do work on it and not be concerned about things being changed over night.
Still a long way away of observing what it does after I install it and adjusting things but nice they made another one of these.

So not entirely dead for me if it behaves similar to the 2019 LTSC like above with the security updates (no feature updates), no promotional apps, no coercion in creating online accounts and Appstore as a choice.

A month ago with what I've seen and the way things were going I didn't expect none of this.

I never thought I'd say this thank you very much Microsoft for this sudden turn around.

Framework Proves Everyone is Sick of Windows - The WAN Show - 4 hours ago

Youtube comment:

@MisterDud 3 hours ago
I had a windows pop up asking me, on a scale of 0-5, how likely it would be that I would recommend onedrive to a friend. The rage that this caused
250

This is the sort of thing that use to annoy the violin man down the road to me who repairs violins back in 2024 every month or so after some update that'd reset things. Privacy settings again, then do you want to buy onedrive, no, do you want to try Office 365, no and the copilot thing he said that kept on interfering was the last straw when he wanted to give that Windows 10 2019 LTSC that I modified, which I installed one of his old Duo Core for him a few years earlier and he said to me that now "it runs like a dream" then he purchased a Corsair M.2 NVME 1tb drive and a graphics card to go with it.

He was showing me some more things on XFCE last week that he had been exploring for some time and very nice, clean basic and he can turn shadows off too instead of the compositor. Another nice addon is that Remmina remote desktop and options where I can adjust things and turn of the tabs and this basic notepad called mousepad and also options too to turn off tabs there too. So that's something that'd be a good alternative for me.

[paulca]

I'm confused.  If you go and try and buy a rack server from, say, Dell or HP, they mostly don't come with an OS at all.  The "pre-installed" bundles seem to either come with Windows Server licenses or VMWare-ESXi installed.

There are two factors here.  People kitting out datacentres are not ordering their servers through the retail market.  However.  When commissioning a commodity rack server for business with a corproate account with someone like Dell, the cost of the windows license is almost negligible.

For larger organisation the windows license will be worthless to them anyway, as they will have per-seat, per-cpu licenses within their main Microsoft account.

Large orgs DO NOT enter windows keys and DO NOT activate.  They get installed via "unattended remote install" with an enterprise license agreement which is flexible on the number of PCs and servers running various flavours of Microsoft software, including Windows, Office, WindowsServer, MSQL etc. etc.  All of those licenses, CPUs, users are bundled into one account and billed at once.  Individual windows licenses would just be discarded.

[Ranayna]

I'm confused.  If you go and try and buy a rack server from, say, Dell or HP, they mostly don't come with an OS at all.  The "pre-installed" bundles seem to either come with Windows Server licenses or VMWare-ESXi installed.

There are two factors here.  People kitting out datacentres are not ordering their servers through the retail market.  However.  When commissioning a commodity rack server for business with a corproate account with someone like Dell, the cost of the windows license is almost negligible.

For larger organisation the windows license will be worthless to them anyway, as they will have per-seat, per-cpu licenses within their main Microsoft account.

Large orgs DO NOT enter windows keys and DO NOT activate.  They get installed via "unattended remote install" with an enterprise license agreement which is flexible on the number of PCs and servers running various flavours of Microsoft software, including Windows, Office, WindowsServer, MSQL etc. etc.  All of those licenses, CPUs, users are bundled into one account and billed at once.  Individual windows licenses would just be discarded.

Servers are indeed rarely bought with bundled licenses. Though that is definelty possible, at least DELL can provide the license.

The per seat windows Licenses, E3 or E5, well, they *do* need a "base" license on the computer. I posted a link earlier that specifically states that a Pro license is part of the system requirements to use E3 or E5 Windows licenses.

And sure, large organizations do not enter keys manually... There still *is* a key though for sure. It is just embedded into the installation images. And they of course need to activate their machines. Though that activation is done against an intermediate KMS server which in turn occasionally reports to Microsoft. And a KMS activation, unlike a activation directly with MS, is not permanent, it needs to be perodically renewed. That is all automatic, but can rear it's ugly head if there is an issue with the KMS.

[BILLPOD]

Well, I've been a Windows aficionado ever since I got my first PC, (before then I had Commodore computers).
It had Windows 3.1, which came on four or five 3 1/4 floppy discs.  My newest 'puter is an HP Envy 17T-da000, which came with Windows 11 installed.  I guess I'm in the minority here, but this newest version does everything I need it to do, so I'm happy with it. Some of the features have some problems, but I soon discover a 'work-around'.  Overall I like Windows.

[Grandchuck]

I used to like Windows a lot.  Not so much nowadays

Here is one example of why: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/general-computing/windows11-updates/msg6201111/#msg6201111

[Randy222]

Win 3.1 

Win for Workgroups 3.11  , netware and tcp/ip, at least at that time it was 

[BrianHG]