Windows 11 is dying....

[paulca]

I see a common trap a lot of people have fallen into here.  The customisation and preferences trap.

It works like this.  You install an OS.  You explore.  Over months you tweak this and tweak that to be just how you like it.  This goes on for a few years.

The moment something requires you to upgrade or even reinstall, the weight of all of those tweaks, preferences and customisations immediately bears on your shoulders and your resistence to change + the overhead of setting it all back up is huge.

But something forces you to do it.  So  you do.  Now you are likely to spend at least few months grumpy and dissatisfied until eventually you will find another stack of customisations and prefrences to make it feel like "Home" again.

Repeat.

Im not saying it's wrong.  But it is a trap with costs.

In my world, the number of different OS instances I use day to day is so great and they change so much, so often and so dramatically.... I just stopped bothering to set things up beyond the minima.  I know that every single thing I change is emphemeral and a debt to pay later.

I think this first started with I had Windows98 and it needed to be reinstalled every 6 months or it would bloat and crawl.  After a few of those, I just stopped customising and tailoring it.

I do the same with most software.  I learn to adapt to it, not the other way around.  One is effort upfront, the other is effort debt.  I like clean books and a good balance.

[paulca]

The other "mistake", though not really a mistake, more a missed feature intake.  Is not taking advantage of things like:

Owning more than one PC.
Owning a virtual host - a proper one, not VBox or similar BS.
Dual booting.
Matching OS to task.
Integrating multiple OSes seemlessly.

Ultimately using each OS for it's specific tasks where it does best.

For example.  I use a Windows10 VM for STM32 work and a few other bits and bobs like .Net play or game moding.

I would not use that VM as my main desktop however.  The VM even with dedicated hardware, a proper hypervisor and a low latency HD/4K remote desktop service... is still slightly "chewy".  Its perfectly usable for dev work, coding etc.  It's brought to its knees by a single full screen 1080p YouTube video though.

EDIT:  A hidden advantage, until you look, of this is "Power saving and thus $$$ saving."

A PC that can do everything for you is going to be quite large. It will have beefy hardware, lots of memory etc.  All of that consumes power and  hte "Idle power" is normally directly proportional to the total capabilities of the PC.  My 700W gaming PC, pulls 100W idle.

So I spent £300 on a micro-pc.  It consumes 14W idle and 32 flat out.  However it works perfectly for most "desktop uses".  Including full screen 60fps 4K video... and even some 'basic' games.  Thanks to the APU.

When you run those numbers out through UK electrical prices the £300 PC paid for it self in about 3 years.

[Ranayna]

The problem is, that even if you do not change a single thing, the next update might still change it for you anyway and break the workflow you are used to.
Related example is the search function in MS Outlook. The location of the search, and to a lesser extend the functionality within the search bar, has changed multiple times over the years. Last time even without a change in outlook version.
And it causes support calls everytime it moves.

Microsoft seems to like to change things for changes sake. Often i have the feeling that there are GUI designers changing things around to be able to argue that their job is really required.

My biggest bugbear related to functionality and usability of windows 11 is still the task bar. Functionality that was present in Windows since at least Windows XP, so for almost a quarter century now, has just been removed.
Even Microsoft realized that this was a bad idea though The functionality is supposed to come back soon-ish.

And once it has, i will migrate to Windows 11. The security hits that can also affect home installations are getting closer.

[paulca]

Microsoft do that to try and please everyone at once.  As they know they will fail as history shows them that, then trend towards impressing the customers who pay them most.  That isn't retail/domestic.

For me...  particularly in work where 1/3rd to 1/2th my computer usage is.  I just don't have a choice.

The windows 11 upgrade happened one Tuesday morning.

SMS to manager: "Windows 11 update got me this morning.  I'll see you this afternoon."

Updates are pushed.  The first indication I have is when it pops up to say, "We will reboot you computer in 3 hours.  RebootNow/Snooze"

[Cyclotron]

....
Microsoft seems to like to change things for changes sake. Often i have the feeling that there are GUI designers changing things around to be able to argue that their job is really required.
....

It's not just Microsoft, it's everyone.
The dramatic changes used to be left to major revisions. Mobile platforms and, in my opinion, agile development processes changed things.

I really dislike the new look and feel of iOS on Apple iPhones. They do this to try to stay "fresh" and drive new purchases. The other side of this is to avoid changes altogether.

[paulca]

....
Microsoft seems to like to change things for changes sake. Often i have the feeling that there are GUI designers changing things around to be able to argue that their job is really required.
....

It's not just Microsoft, it's everyone.
The dramatic changes used to be left to major revisions. Mobile platforms and, in my opinion, agile development processes changed things.

I really dislike the new look and feel of iOS on Apple iPhones. They do this to try to stay "fresh" and drive new purchases. The other side of this is to avoid changes altogether.

Yep.  As I have hinted at in other threads, the issue is they are locked in a self accelerating loop.  The faster you can get something to market today the more likely you will be to succeed.  The payouts are enormous.  Everyone is still looking at the likes of Meta and thinking "We just need to land us one of those.... before everyone else does."

So they go back to software engineering and ask, "Can you make it go faster?"

Eventually, probably already, teh answer is "No.", but they are not asking engineers.  They are asking business people and they say, "Yes, certainly, let me just make the developers life more like hell." or better put, "We'll add more ceremony to make it look like we are going faster."

[soldar]

I see a common trap a lot of people have fallen into here.  The customisation and preferences trap.

It works like this.  You install an OS.  You explore.  Over months you tweak this and tweak that to be just how you like it.  This goes on for a few years.

The moment something requires you to upgrade or even reinstall, the weight of all of those tweaks, preferences and customisations immediately bears on your shoulders and your resistence to change + the overhead of setting it all back up is huge.

But something forces you to do it.  So  you do.  Now you are likely to spend at least few months grumpy and dissatisfied until eventually you will find another stack of customisations and prefrences to make it feel like "Home" again.

Repeat.

Im not saying it's wrong.  But it is a trap with costs.

In my world, the number of different OS instances I use day to day is so great and they change so much, so often and so dramatically.... I just stopped bothering to set things up beyond the minima.  I know that every single thing I change is emphemeral and a debt to pay later.

I think this first started with I had Windows98 and it needed to be reinstalled every 6 months or it would bloat and crawl.  After a few of those, I just stopped customising and tailoring it.

I do the same with most software.  I learn to adapt to it, not the other way around.  One is effort upfront, the other is effort debt.  I like clean books and a good balance.

That is always my situation. I do not want to have to learn new software, I want the software to adapt to me.

I am now running Linux Mint 20 on about half a dozen computers. I would keep it forever but Mint 20 is out of date and no longer supported and some programs stop running. So I started by installing Mint 22.3 on a separate computer. Basic install goes OK. I have to give up some older programs but OK, I'll accept that. But then I get to a major hurdle (for me). I cannot get Irfanview with WINE to be the default app for images. I have spent time in the Mint forum but cannot get what I want. So I get so frustrated I just give up and decide to remain with LM 20. Because updating the SO should not be so traumatic. It seems to me a lot of the time they change things around just for the sake of newness. Come to think about it I might open a thread here, in the computer section, once I recover from my frustration.

Yes, I have everything set the way I like it and any changes, even if minor, slow me down, a lot. I always use the mouse and never the touchpad. For a few days I was traveling and forgot the mouse at home and the laptop felt very awkward. For me the mouse is alnost unconscious and once I have to start thinking every move I slow down a lot.

[PlainName]

I see a common trap a lot of people have fallen into here.  The customisation and preferences trap.
[...]

Yes, there is a lot of that about it, although it's not as bad as you make out. When I get a new PC I always isntall from scratch rather then restore a backup, precisely so that everything is fresh. I don't do it often enough for it to be a pain, and if W10+ were actually any good I would already be on them.

For me, the issue is the GUI. The hidden scrollbars, white window overlaying white window with no border. Scrolling down the setting page, selecting an option and then when you back up you're at the top of the page instead of where you left it. Those are the sort of things that really, REALLY get on one's tits when they are there all the time and cannot be configured out.

[paulca]

I liked Windows 10.  However it was because most of the new UI features added where stolen from KDE.  Things like window snapping, half snap etc.  It was also the first time I'd used windows on an SSD.

[PlainName]

I use Actual Window Manage which does window snapping and a LOT more. But I never use snapping - always docks when I don't want it to (which is usually 'always')

A feature I use a lot when working for a specific client is desktop divider which lets you split up your huge desktop into zones and then snap windows into those in various ways. Did I read that W11 has that now? Still won't make me 'upgrade'

[paulca]

Windows 11.  I don't know if others see it, but the jarring and annoying thing for me that I can't get away from is..

Where the fuck did my screen real estate go?  Why is there so much pregnant white space on everything?  And why is EVERYTHING a link hot spot.  How do I even click the window "handle" on a title bar filled with crap?  How can you both contract and expand the desktop useable space and make it useless at the same time?

Do not start me on Macbook.  Absolutely UI junk.  Completely inconsistent and honestly about 10 years out of date.

[Cyclotron]

I liked Windows 10.  However it was because most of the new UI features added where stolen from KDE.  Things like window snapping, half snap etc.  It was also the first time I'd used windows on an SSD.

Window snapping is cool, I'm glad a form of it has made it to macOS.  I used to use a pretty nifty Windows manager on Windows 2k Pro when I worked in support escalations on Solaris systems. I'd have multiple virtual screens running, with a terminal in each. Then I discovered the terminal program "screens".

[SteveThackery]

Where the fuck did my screen real estate go?  Why is there so much pregnant white space on everything?  And why is EVERYTHING a link hot spot.  How do I even click the window "handle" on a title bar filled with crap?  How can you both contract and expand the desktop useable space and make it useless at the same time?

I absolutely agree with this. I would say it's because Microsoft have forced a touch-oriented UI on us desktop users. It started with W8 and has been a complete ball-ache ever since. That's why I keep looking longingly at Linux.*

Do not start me on Macbook.  Absolutely UI junk.  Completely inconsistent and honestly about 10 years out of date.

OMG! Don't you know that millions of afficionados insist that Apple can do no wrong? 😳

-----
* If only Windows applications would run natively on Linux. (Yeah, I know....)

[Randy222]

Crapple's numbers tell their story, nothing else.

[Ranayna]

....
Microsoft seems to like to change things for changes sake. Often i have the feeling that there are GUI designers changing things around to be able to argue that their job is really required.
....

It's not just Microsoft, it's everyone.
The dramatic changes used to be left to major revisions. Mobile platforms and, in my opinion, agile development processes changed things.

I really dislike the new look and feel of iOS on Apple iPhones. They do this to try to stay "fresh" and drive new purchases. The other side of this is to avoid changes altogether.

Two settings make iOS bearable again for me:
Settings -> Accessibility -> Display & Text size -> "Reduce Transparency" to on
Settings -> Accessibility -> Motion -> "Reduce Motion" to on

No fancy "Glss" for with this anymore, but the transparency made a lot of things difficult to read.
And "reduce motion" disables some wonky animation effects.

[paulca]

OMG! Don't you know that millions of afficionados insist that Apple can do no wrong? 😳

I used to have a small quanta of respect for them.  Then I used a Mac.

[Cyclotron]

OMG! Don't you know that millions of afficionados insist that Apple can do no wrong? 😳

I used to have a small quanta of respect for them.  Then I used a Mac.

Give me back my old Thinkpad T21... 

Work provides two options: a MacBook Pro (big or small) and a Dell. I hate 'em all, but I hate Dell more.
I go with the 14 Mac Pro because it suits me best for hardware and travel.

MacOS is complete garbage for the user interface, and I think I've grown dumber for using it. I don't know why they can't figure out that just because the menus were always like this doesn't mean they should stay that way. And the lack of a standard for keyboard shortcuts is a PIA. When I used Windows as my daily I did a lot from the keyboard.

That brings me back to the Thinkpad. I loved that thing. It was a tank and the red nubins was awesome. I could shortcut all over, and with the numpad, I could move my mouse effectively without taking my fingers off the home row on the keyboard.

[John Coloccia]

OMG! Don't you know that millions of afficionados insist that Apple can do no wrong? 😳

I have my own opinion on the various GUI (and other) interfaces I've used over the years. I love some more than others. I think most interfaces have redeeming qualities, even Windows 11 and macOS (though they're making it really hard).
 
IMHO, the big takeaway from what's happening is "is Windows inevitable?" The answer is more and more NO. It's not going to die, anymore than macOs, or VMS, or Solaris...or Fortran, or pearl or anything else.

But I was born in the 70s, and have seen the evolution. And probably you too. We've both dealt with crap interfaces, better interfaces, etc, and have seen it meander back and forth. Ultimately, people land somewhere that is useful for them. IMHO, security and OS spying will be the main issue moving forward in the next 10 years, and after a few large scale breaches and/or scandals, no one will care about the interface...again. LOL.

[PlainName]

and after a few large scale breaches and/or scandals, no one will care about the interface...again

Of course they will.  The issue will be that there isn't anything good any more too choose from. But they will still be - and feel - crap.

[paulca]

Speaking of MacOS, that haven of usability - cough -

Today I found myself squinting at some micro-scopic IDE UI text.  So I opened the display settings and found the 'scaling' settings...

For the built in display only.

Because crapple do not recognise my monitor as being Apple approved (is, Apple made) it provides no scaling.  The only option is to drop the resolution... on an LCD panel.

It's honestly ... I only have swear words.

EDIT:  After pursuing this a little further, you can force "HiDPI" resolutions.  However.  They don't support 21:9 aspects.  Provides only 720P variants.  That's 50% vertical resolution.  Thats the best option it has.

A better option (not ideal though)... I settled on dropping the resolution to 1080p, from 1440p.  The downside is the panel is now scaling it, so it has lost a bit of definition.  Still better than fonts 3mm high.

[Randy222]

Yellow Key, what a f-up for mycrudsoft ! The trust level went from shit to cesspool.

[Cyclotron]

Yellow Key, what a f-up for mycrudsoft ! The trust level went from shit to cesspool.

A feature to allow those who have been blessed with encrypted volumes by ransomware attackers a way to get their data back.

[Someone]

Because crapple do not recognise my monitor as being Apple approved (is, Apple made) it provides no scaling.  The only option is to drop the resolution... on an LCD panel.

Happens even with Apple 1st party displays... that don't meet their arbitrary requirement to be "retina" for support of the high quality scaling. So not a brand of monitor issue, but a threshold of PPI which changes the available options.

Since it's a silly arbitrary cutoff and high quality scaling is still useful there are various 3rd party utilities which re-enable it on any monitor.
https://github.com/xzhih/one-key-hidpi
https://github.com/waydabber/BetterDisplay

But hey, why let a minute or two on google to fix your problems get in the way of some ranting and misdirected hating?

[Randy222]

Yellow Key, what a f-up for mycrudsoft ! The trust level went from shit to cesspool.

A feature to allow those who have been blessed with encrypted volumes by ransomware attackers a way to get their data back.

Or 3 letters to get in w/o telling anyone how they did it.
Ransomware would not be recoverable by this method.

I am convinced the obscure way in was done on purpose.

[default0.0player]

Yellow Key, what a f-up for mycrudsoft ! The trust level went from shit to cesspool.

A feature to allow those who have been blessed with encrypted volumes by ransomware attackers a way to get their data back.

Bitlocker is ransomware because it's done without the user's knowledge. The most common problem is unable to recover data after a computer malfunction