‘Male’ and ‘female’ plugs and connectors – gendered language

[studiot]

So still nobody knows exactly what you're referring to or how it's relevant to the wall side connector which was the actual subject of the comment you replied to.

Well that can't be true, what is more likely is that you haven't read post # 47

[Monkeh]

So still nobody knows exactly what you're referring to or how it's relevant to the wall side connector which was the actual subject of the comment you replied to.

Well that can't be true, what is more likely is that you haven't read post # 47

A post by someone other than you, replying to someone other than you, which doesn't clarify what sort of connector you were thinking of. Or why either of you would think of a 60309 as a standard connector in normal conversational context.

You complain about people abusing the language with laziness, but are too lazy to actually communicate, instead imagining we're all privy to your internal context.

[Simon]

I'm talking about the connectors on the wall in buildings! The UK plug and it's predecessors are flat with pins sticking out, the socket is flat with holes in it, what we call the plug has male pins what we call the socket has female pins. There is no interaction between the plug body and socket body, the interaction of plugging in involves only the pins. This is the same for most nationally adopted mains power "connectors", the one exception I can think of being the shuko where the earth pin is on the side of the plug body so the plug shell/body must enter the socket body so that the earth contact can make contact, all others are flush.

The connectors that electrical and electronics engineers work with are far more complex, words have to be found to describe these things and at the rate the nutters are going the terms for these would be so confounded no one would use them anyway.

Whilst I know what you mean and agree with what you are saying, I'm talking about what you have not said.

When you plug a lead with this 3 pin plug into the wall socket, what do you plug the thing on the other end of the lead into and what do you call that thing ?

I was trying to explain that many people that get caught up in this crap and that are not engineers are probably only thinking about the connectors they know the most, main plugs. after all this hoo haa is more likely to be backed by non engineers than engineers. Yes the IEC plugs that go into a computer do go into the socket although we are still not talking about anything that latches or locks. Only people that use connectors daily will look at this and find the idea of changing everything for some idiotic lunatic SJW's ridiculous.

And lets not forget that there are a lot of people out there who are not engineers and understand nothing of the why things are done or what is even being done who think they know what they are talking about because they think they know about this stuff because they knocked up a python script for a rpi once or used an arduino.

[Cyclotron]

......
And lets not forget that there are a lot of people out there who are not engineers and understand nothing of the why things are done or what is even being done who think they know what they are talking about because they think they know about this stuff because they knocked up a python script for a rpi once or used an arduino.

Only because the thread is about language.  Since I've worked in many diverse teams, I know how the bolded is meant in the UK but I can't help but laugh and think someone made a python script pregnant.   

[Simon]

As I understand the terminology, plugs and sockets refer to the mechanical objects we connect together.
The socket refers to the fixture (hence wall socket) and the plug refers to the mobile object.

Nope! you can have an inline plug or socket, like I said,. if all you know is your simplistic power connectors then you know nothing about the world of connectors. I have designed a few military harnesses in my time and there are many options. the only one you don't get is the wall/box (some series differentiate) mounted plug, but you can have a cable mounted socket, the same as you have mains sockets on the end of an extension lead. In these connectors pin gender is not tied to the connector shell type. and most box mounted sockets have the thread on the back for a back shell which is the bit that can be a cable clamp or heat-shrink boots attach to it so that the cable can be mechanically secured and sealed so the box socket could be used inline if you didn't care about the square flange that would give you something to grip when you undo the connectors.

The world of connectors is already a terminology minefield, we really don't need ignorant people telling us how to do our jobs and what to call things just because they are being a snowflake on behalf of nobody.

[Simon]

......
And lets not forget that there are a lot of people out there who are not engineers and understand nothing of the why things are done or what is even being done who think they know what they are talking about because they think they know about this stuff because they knocked up a python script for a rpi once or used an arduino.

Only because the thread is about language.  Since I've worked in many diverse teams, I know how the bolded is meant in the UK but I can't help but laugh and think someone made a python script pregnant.   

You make a serious point actually that had already occurred to me. Most of what we have said here in technical earnest could be taken as a euphemism for something sexual, so lets sit and wait for the next indignant snowflake wave that will want every word we speak changed so that we cannot possibly be deemed to have meant something else, it's just nuts. That is why I refuse to conform to what a bunch of nobodies tell me out of spite because it's the only way they have of having any power because they are too useless to actually do something meaningful with their pathetic lives!

[TimFox]

This is a thread about language.
Any comments from countries whose native language (French, German, etc.) genders nouns, not necessarily in a logical manner?
French:  masculine and feminine
German:   masculine, feminine, and neuter
etc.
The famous example, mentioned by Mark Twain in his diatribes against the German language, is that since the diminuitive ending "-chen" always neuters the root noun, the word for "girl" is "das Mädchen" (neuter gender).

[Cyclotron]

This is a thread about language.
Any comments from countries whose native language (French, German, etc.) genders nouns, not necessarily in a logical manner?
French:  masculine and feminine
German:   masculine, feminine, and neuter
etc.
The famous example, mentioned by Mark Twain in his diatribes against the German language, is that since the diminuitive ending "-chen" always neuters the root noun, the word for "girl" is "das Mädchen" (neuter gender).

Indeed:
“In German, a young lady has no sex, while a turnip has. Think what overwrought reverence that shows for the turnip, and what callous disrespect for the girl.”   -- Mark Twain

[Analog Kid]

Oy. Give me a fucking break already!

Look; I'm not a homophobe. I wish those who perceive their gender differently all the best.

Sooooo… based on that sentence, you can’t understand what homophobia is, since you don’t understand what sexual orientation and gender identity are.

Homophobia is dislike or prejudice against homosexual people (i.e. people who are attracted to the same sex). Homosexuality has nothing to do with gender identity. I’ll use myself as an example: I’m a gay man. That means I’m attracted to men. But there is no question in my mind that I am anything but a man. (So I’m a cisgender gay man.)

Transgender is tangential: it’s when your own gender identity does not align with your physical body. For example, a man feeling trapped inside a female body. But this is entirely separate from who the person is attracted to. A trans person may feel attraction to men or women, or both, just as a cis person can.

But puleeze, I'm not acquiescing to being forced to use your preferred pronouns.

OK, so you are transphobic.

I don't care what the fuck you do in your bedroom; I really don't want to know about it. Just keep it to yourselves, 'k?

OK, so you are homophobic after all, assuming that this statement means “I don’t want to be exposed to homosexual people” — since I am pretty sure you aren’t actually being forced to watch gay sex against your will. (Heck, I am gay and I don’t get forced to watch it…)

What certainly isn’t reasonable is to demand that gay people not talk about the same things that straight people can (and do) talk about.

It seems you're taking offense where it wasn't intended or warranted.

I should have expressed myself better in the post you responded to.
By saying I'm not homophobic I meant that I'm not offended or repelled by any form of sexuality other than cisgender, including homosexuality.

So it matters not to me what "gender" or what flavor of sexuality a person embodies. That's their choice (or destiny or whatever).

And just to be clear, any discrimination against a person based on their sexuality in employment or housing should absolutely not be tolerated.

Having said that, there are some things about expressions of sexuality that do bother me. One thing I particularly dislike is when someone shoves their sexuality in your face and forces you to confront it. To me this is over the line, transgressive.

It's like someone coming up to you at a cocktail party and proceeding to tell you not only that they're gay (or trans or whatever), but to describe in detail what positions they and their boyfriend like, what toys they use. (And you didn't ask for any of this information.)

I can't prove it, but I'm pretty sure that most people, for certain values of "most", agree with me here that past a certain point it's TMI. Well, let's say I'm limiting my sample here to non-bigoted people; bigots have no say in the matter (or shouldn't, anyhow).

It's one thing to mention that you're gay or lesbian or bisexual; no big deal there. But just as our constitution gives us not only the freedom of religion but also freedom from religion, so is there an unwritten guideline that frowns on people imparting excessive information of a sexual nature. This is, of course, just a conjecture on my part, and I'd be interested to hear what others have to say about this.

If someone tells me that they're ________ sexually, I'll accept it (well, so long as ________ isn't outright delusional, like someone claiming that they're a female lesbian Siberian tiger); after all, who am I to question that? (If they did make such a claim I wouldn't argue it with them, but would just politely break off the conversation and move to another guest at the party.)

I really do not believe that there are 64 distinct genders, as proposed by some ivory-tower academicians; I think that's preposterous. But if someone claims they're one of them, again, I'm not going to argue the point with them; it's their choice, and they can call themselves whatever they want. My motto here is live and let live.

Just don't expect me to play along with it to the point of making sure to use their preferred pronoun or whatever. That's a bridge too far.

It's like a "differently-gendered" person applying for a job, an in-your-face gender warrior covered with tats and nose rings and torn clothing. If I were the employer I'd just flatly turn them down. Well, for a programming position in the back room? Sure, why not? But as a cashier in the front? No fucking way.

I'm not even sure how I feel about things like drag-queen story hours. It's one thing in San Francisco (or Boston or New York or ...). But at the library in Anytown, Iowa, a conservative community with zero gay/non-cis culture? It seems that some of these events are, again, in-your-face attempts to rile up the local populace. Is this really something admirable? or is it just asking for trouble? I'm not certain here, in such subjective territory. But I guess the point I'm trying to make is that it should be more than a matter of gay or differently-gendered folks asserting their rights: they should be aware of the effect that their actions have on others. Possibly pretty trite, but I think it bears considering.

So do I think that non-cisgender people should beat a hasty retreat back to the closet?
Or that we should embrace that cowardly and mendacious policy known as "don't ask, don't tell"?
No, certainly not. Again, I believe in strong safeguards for such folks, from anti-discrimination laws to efforts to tamp down attacks on them. (Physical attacks, that is, which still occur.)

But beyond that, no, I do not believe that people are so fragile, so vulnerable that they should be protected from even hearing language that they consider to be hurtful. "Sticks and stones" and all that. We should be more resilient than that.

Hopefully I expressed myself better this time. One doesn't always know ...

[tooki]

As I understand the terminology, plugs and sockets refer to the mechanical objects we connect together.
The socket refers to the fixture (hence wall socket) and the plug refers to the mobile object.

Agreed, with the caveat that inline sockets and panel-mount plugs do exist also.

Couplers have a totally different meaning and purpose.
Even in electronics couplers have a different meaning.

What does the word “coupler” mean to you?

P.S. In your prior reply to me, please go in and fix your quoting. You inserted text into the quote itself.

[studiot]

So still nobody knows exactly what you're referring to or how it's relevant to the wall side connector which was the actual subject of the comment you replied to.

Well that can't be true, what is more likely is that you haven't read post # 47

A post by someone other than you, replying to someone other than you, which doesn't clarify what sort of connector you were thinking of. Or why either of you would think of a 60309 as a standard connector in normal conversational context.

You complain about people abusing the language with laziness, but are too lazy to actually communicate, instead imagining we're all privy to your internal context.

As I said the line I quoted from your post can't be true.

It can't be true because you are accusing me of replying to a post, before it happened.

In fact my reply to you was not lazy, just a subtle nudge to go back and read a post by someone else who actually offered the answer to your question and more besides, making him a greater expert on Bulgin plugs than I am.

My experience comes from having wired a good many of them up in my time, both plugs and chassis sockets.


Just to show that I can read my own language the sequence was as follows

Post  #39 by Simon.

Post # 46 by studiot  my reply

Post # 55 by Simon  his first mention of a wall.





I really am sorry to see persons flying the Union Flag making such a fuss and personal attacks.

I am very able and willing to engage in fruitful discussions with persons who wish to exchange knowledge, not insults.

[studiot]

P.S. In your prior reply to me, please go in and fix your quoting. You inserted text into the quote itself.

Yes I apologise for that.

I am still learning an system which is unfamiliar to me.

Agreed, with the caveat that inline sockets and panel-mount plugs do exist also.

Yes you are right.  I would call the 'thing' at the device end of the connecting cable a female plug and the thing at the wall end a male plug.

What does the word “coupler” mean to you?

Have you heard of an opto - coupler ?

[Xena E]

The last company I worked for had a tiresome snowflake HR lady person who in one meeting I attended just after joining, voiced her their opinion that terms such as male and female in company technical literature was offensive and should be replaced.

As a show of solidarity for girl power gender indifference, I suggested the German "pimmel" and "muschi" as alternatives thinking she they was were making a joke... how wrong I was.

[studiot]

The last company I worked for had a tiresome snowflake HR lady person who in one meeting I attended just after joining, voiced her their opinion that terms such as male and female in company technical literature was offensive and should be replaced.

As a show of solidarity for girl power gender indifference, I suggested the German "pimmel" and "muschi" as alternatives thinking she they was were making a joke... how wrong I was.

Had she never shopped in Screwfix?

 

[Analog Kid]

I am still learning an system which is unfamiliar to me.

An system? Really?

[studiot]

I am still learning an system which is unfamiliar to me.

An system? Really?

Good catch.

[Xena E]

The last company I worked for had a tiresome snowflake HR lady person who in one meeting I attended just after joining, voiced her their opinion that terms such as male and female in company technical literature was offensive and should be replaced.

As a show of solidarity for girl power gender indifference, I suggested the German "pimmel" and "muschi" as alternatives thinking she they was were making a joke... how wrong I was.

Had she never shopped in Screwfix?

 

That's more construction industry politically incorrect terminology, they're always banging, screwing, and nailing...

[EEVblog]

It's all ridiculous, bring me the people who are offended, becha can't find any genuine ones, just the ones that want to go around with their moral superiority getting offended on behalf of no one who is actually offended and beating us over the head with their superiority.

It was interesting that during the cancellation heyday, I would not get emails from those actually offended by something I said or supported (or didn't support), but the emails instead came from those who were offended on behalf of someone else.
The term Social Justice Warrior was literally true.
When I told them to get those people actually supposedly impacted to email me directly, none of them ever did, not a single one.

[Monkeh]

Just to show that I can read my own language the sequence was as follows

Post  #39 by Simon.

Post # 46 by studiot  my reply

Post # 55 by Simon  his first mention of a wall.

The standard 3 pin mains connector in most countries does not have the plug shell insert itself into the socket shell. The only exception I can think of this the shuko family.

This is called context. His is in the open.

I really am sorry to see persons flying the Union Flag making such a fuss and personal attacks.

I have not personally attacked you. You'll know if I do.

[Cyclotron]

@stuidot

.....
I have not personally attacked you. You'll know if I do.

In time gone past, a conversation may have taken a turn where someone felt attacked, the percieved attacker might even offer to apologize for such a misunderstanding.

Times have changed. While no apology was offered, you can 100% know for sure is that you've been handed an idle threat.
So there was a consolation prize. 

[studiot]

In time gone past, a conversation may have taken a turn where someone felt attacked, the percieved attacker might even offer to apologize for such a misunderstanding.

Times have changed. While no apology was offered, you can 100% know for sure is that you've been handed an idle threat.
So there was a consolation prize. 

Ist selbstverständlich who is attacking whom but thanks anyway.

[sleemanj]

When describing connectors, I tend to avoid "male" and "female", not for any "woke" connotation, simply because it can be ambiguous.

"The male connector has pins that plug into the female connector dummy"

"No, the male connector itself plugs into the female connector dummy"

Plug and socket by comparison are very rarely confusing terms.

[Halcyon]

It's all ridiculous, bring me the people who are offended, becha can't find any genuine ones, just the ones that want to go around with their moral superiority getting offended on behalf of no one who is actually offended and beating us over the head with their superiority.

It was interesting that during the cancellation heyday, I would not get emails from those actually offended by something I said or supported (or didn't support), but the emails instead came from those who were offended on behalf of someone else.
The term Social Justice Warrior was literally true.
When I told them to get those people actually supposedly impacted to email me directly, none of them ever did, not a single one.

That's usually the case. All those people marching in the streets over some issue, are usually not the ones who have taken offence or are directly impacted. They are simply the loud minority that don't have anything better to do.

[bsfeechannel]

The real drama IMO is that many people obviously have way too much time on their hands to bother with this nonsense.

That and the fact that people (mis)take analogies for political statements. The use of words like male,female, master and slave are analogies. They do not deny the political implications of these terms in their original contexts, but don't bring them to what should be a strict technical description.

[xrunner]

That and the fact that people (mis)take analogies for political statements. The use of words like male,female, master and slave are analogies. They do not deny the political implications of these terms in their original contexts, but don't bring them to what should be a strict technical description.

Right. "Master" and "Slave" applied to non-human things like electronic devices is OK because they have no rights and are not subject to human laws and feelings. So there certainly can be Masters ans Slaves in the world of inanimate objects. They have no feelings and no choice in the matter of these names.