‘Male’ and ‘female’ plugs and connectors – gendered language

[Cyclotron]

You still haven't refuted my points relating to organ donation and disease.

I travel all over. The US is far from alone in politicizing crap and may even just catching up with the political nonsense like jailing people over "hate speech."
We will get there.

You didn't substantiate any points in a way that builds your case that race is significant or even real outside of you seeing something in common among among people (grouping people).

Sickle Cell Disease for instance; It is more common in people with African, Mediterranean, Middle Eastern, and South Asian ancestry. It persists because the gene mutation offers protection against malaria, meaning it appears wherever malaria historically occurred.  Would you call people of all of these origins one race because of the mutation to protect against malarira?  It makes no sense.

I agree that genetics makes people predisposed to be able to donate organs but the body of the recipient will reject it anyway. It's just the amount of rejection. This is where I'd say that finding someone that's more closely matched in genetics is key and why family is the best but, because of variance in family genetics that's not always the case.

We all sourced from the same ancestors no matter if you believe in religion or evolution they both share the same path to today. People developed mutations due to environmental pressures. At least I'm not aware of any significant views or beliefs in unique origin off the top of my head.

So, while you didn't provide and proof of race existing outside of a skin you can peel off with a sharp instrument, I probably didn't refute it either because I don't see anything to refute but your opinion and I have mine. I believe I have far more to back up my opinon than what I've seen from you but if you have something that you feel strongly shoudl change my mind I'll take it into consideration.

 

[Analog Kid]

There's one race, the human race.

Amen to that.

"Race" in the sense in which it's commonly used is an outdated 19th century concept that needs to be buried, deeply.
It belongs in the same category as other discredited theories like craniometry, the idea that human intelligence depends solely on the volume of one's brain box, as well as attributing personality characteristics to the shape of one's skull.

Stephen Jay Gould totally demolished these concepts and other equally wrong ones in his masterful The Mismeasure of Man, which I highly recommend.

There are, of course, measurable and visible differences between different ethnicities of hue-mons, but they don't amount to "racial" differences.

[negativ3]

As with everything, there is nuance, sometimes uncomfortably so.

Example, consanguinity is prevalent in certain societies and is at such a level (double-digit % population) that it is measurable/demonstrable genetically and has severe health implications at all terms of lifespan.

The common genetic tree from which we all obviously originate has many branches already.

The fact that Homo Sapiens genetically differ from Pan Troglodytes by ~1.2% demonstrates a small % number is massive evolutionarily.

It is unfortunate that science has devolved into a like/dislike culture whilst pushing truth out of the way.

This is not my opinion.

[Randy222]

Stick in Hole was always the rule.

But then came things like "RP" SMA. It's kinda like "transgender".

[Cyclotron]

Stick in Hole was always the rule.

But then came things like "RP" SMA. It's kinda like "transgender".

Thank you for the enlighten lighting of the lit path of this thread.  Humor, the best of humanity.
 

[jnk0le]

And besides - many major publications (IEEE, Nature, and the Journal of Modern Optics) have agreed at this point that continuing to use Lenna as a standard test image over other images is bad practice for technical and ethical reasons.

All they had to do was to claim copyright issues. Done.
They could do this much earlier and would be seen as another buerocratic thing. (as journal don't want to deal with copyright trolls)

Then you can argue that image scanned from a book, with artifacts visible to a naked eye, is not representative of the real world data.


Instead, everyone went with the "ethical concerns" (was this used to bully her, or something?) and "unporned image" claim (today, soft porn is not even considered a porn btw)

[negativ3]

Stick in Hole was always the rule.

But then came things like "RP" SMA. It's kinda like "transgender".

I witnessed the birth of my first, it was like watching my favorite pub burn down.

[vwestlife]

Is Baidu trolling this thread as well?

"This gender-neutral PC nonsense has got to stop!" -- probably said people in 1982 when they saw ads using "walkperson" as a non-trademarked alternative to the Sony Walkman.



As a gay man with many trans friends, I'm fine with the "male/female" terminology for connectors when it's customary and unambiguous, but that is definitely not always the case. As the article points out, when presented with connectors like these, it's not immediately obvious which one is "male" and which one is "female".



And yes, "the parts don't fit" argument using connectors has often been lobbed against LGBTQ folks, but Ed debunked that 2008:

[Analog Kid]

And yes, "the parts don't fit" argument using connectors has often been lobbed against LGBTQ folks, but Ed debunked that 2008:

Butbutbut ... that last USB connector is female, innit?

[Cyclotron]

As a gay man with many trans friends, I'm fine with the "male/female" terminology for connectors when it's customary and unambiguous, but that is definitely not always the case. As the article points out, when presented with connectors like these, it's not immediately obvious which one is "male" and which one is "female".

I beg to differ, that's obviously a overbearing puggy uncut male and a slinder female.  That should be enough adjectives to fix it.

[tszaboo]

By prescribing chemical castration medication to kids under the guise of puberty blockers was and still remains the bridge way too far. A single child being affected for life is the result of such experimentation and all those involved should be... I'll leave it there. They've been on jury duty recently.

Agreed. I really wanted to avoid talking about that, but it's true.

There should even be more safeguards for adults, because there are legitimate concerns surrounding these treatments.

Heck, I'm pretty liberal when it comes to this in many respects. Gender non-conforming people have existed throughout human history. Some societies have been more tolerant than others. In tribes, the odd boy who wanted to perform woman's work i.e. picking berries, was allowed to do so, as was a woman who preferred to do men's work such as hunting, so long as they were good at it. Then there's the third gender, which is a nuanced topic. All societies which had/have a third gender acknowledge them to be either biologically male or female, just that they are don't fit the typical male/female binary in terms of male or female characteristics. Barbaric societies who castrated boys aside, it is only recently the idea of physical treatments for gender non-conforming people has been accepted.

But it's a crime, that gets swept under a rug.
Children get "diagnosed" and prescribed a lifetime of drugs based on a 30 minute discussion with "doctors". And if their parent tries to intervene, they might be arrested and jailed for that (in some countries) . And those drugs will make them infertile, disfigured and have a lifetime of dissatisfaction.
This has to stop, and whoever allowed it to happen should be treated like the Nuremberg trials.

[tooki]

Race is a social construct. No it isn't.

It shouldn’t be, and in many contexts, it isn’t (like medicine).

It gets muddied when for statistical purposes, it gets combined with ethnicity, like in the many, many US government forms in the past that used to make you choose from:
*White (non-Hispanic)
*Black
*Native American
*Hispanic
*Asian
*Pacific Islander
*…

OK, so… I’m half American (of which 1/2 Italian, 1/4 Ukrainian, 1/4 Russian) and half Hispanic (of practically 100% European origin). Thus, genetically I’m basically 100% assorted white European, which is what the “white” category is intended for. But the “non-Hispanic” specifier rules that out. But I’m also not 100% Hispanic. And of course they wanted you to select only one. (I chose white, obviously, but it always seemed stupid to me that you couldn’t pick more than one. And that they were stupidly selected categories.)

(They updated the list a few years ago, and “white” no longer carries the “non-hispanic” specifier.)

[tooki]

By prescribing chemical castration medication to kids under the guise of puberty blockers was and still remains the bridge way too far. A single child being affected for life is the result of such experimentation and all those involved should be... I'll leave it there. They've been on jury duty recently.

Agreed. I really wanted to avoid talking about that, but it's true.

There should even be more safeguards for adults, because there are legitimate concerns surrounding these treatments.

Heck, I'm pretty liberal when it comes to this in many respects. Gender non-conforming people have existed throughout human history. Some societies have been more tolerant than others. In tribes, the odd boy who wanted to perform woman's work i.e. picking berries, was allowed to do so, as was a woman who preferred to do men's work such as hunting, so long as they were good at it. Then there's the third gender, which is a nuanced topic. All societies which had/have a third gender acknowledge them to be either biologically male or female, just that they are don't fit the typical male/female binary in terms of male or female characteristics. Barbaric societies who castrated boys aside, it is only recently the idea of physical treatments for gender non-conforming people has been accepted.

But it's a crime, that gets swept under a rug.
Children get "diagnosed" and prescribed a lifetime of drugs based on a 30 minute discussion with "doctors". And if their parent tries to intervene, they might be arrested and jailed for that (in some countries) . And those drugs will make them infertile, disfigured and have a lifetime of dissatisfaction.
This has to stop, and whoever allowed it to happen should be treated like the Nuremberg trials.

I’m sorry, but you guys need to learn more about the actual process, and not what hysterical anti-trans people claim the process is!

No medical transition (including puberty blockers) begins until extensive psychotherapy has occurred, on the order of months to years. No doctor is going to do that after a single half hour talk with a kid. They won’t even do that with an adult! (And surgery isn’t on the table until you have been socially transitioned, i.e. living as the “target” gender full time, for a year or more.)

Is it conceivable, or even likely, that there have been individual doctors who did not adhere to this? Absolutely. But that’s not the norm, it is malpractice, since it does not conform to the established standards of care for this condition.

Critically, one cannot use such outliers as the basis by which they characterize an entire medical field — that is a dishonest tactic that is not a basis for rational discussions or decision making!

[paulca]

The thing is... If you actually go around your house and pick up plugs, connectors, hoses and pipes and actually look at their interfaces, you will find that the majority of them and almost all newer designed ones are both genders at the same time.

Then there are complicated ones, like USB. What gender exactly is a USB-A?  The outer shield "goes into the hole", so it's male, right?  But wait.  What is that protrudance sticking out of the socket and why is there a slot in the "male" end for it to insert into...  so the USB-A is female and the socket is male?

But once more zoom in.  On that protruding bar which slides into the slot on the USB-A plug, there are little contact fingers.... which bit of those is male or female?  They seem to contact by "slide" not by insertion.

There are some obvious ones, like a 3.5mm jack is clearly male.  A power plug/socket its fairly obvious.  But HDMI?  Display port?  USB?  RS232-D25?  Most of those are recursively balanced gender.

Actually.  If you then take a walk outside and inspect the next flower you see....  looks a lot like a USB-A to me.

DuPont lash ups is where it get spicy.  "I need male to male, but the LA has only females... where are my gender converters?  Ah ha!  Double males, there they are"

[tooki]

The thing is... If you actually go around your house and pick up plugs, connectors, hoses and pipes and actually look at their interfaces, you will find that the majority of them and almost all newer designed ones are both genders at the same time.

Then there are complicated ones, like USB. What gender exactly is a USB-A?  The outer shield "goes into the hole", so it's male, right?  But wait.  What is that protrudance sticking out of the socket and why is there a slot in the "male" end for it to insert into...  so the USB-A is female and the socket is male?

But once more zoom in.  On that protruding bar which slides into the slot on the USB-A plug, there are little contact fingers.... which bit of those is male or female?  They seem to contact by "slide" not by insertion.

There are some obvious ones, like a 3.5mm jack is clearly male.  A power plug/socket its fairly obvious.  But HDMI?  Display port?  USB?  RS232-D25?  Most of those are recursively balanced gender.

Hence what I stated earlier in the thread that we really need to consider contact gender and overall connector gender separately, and use different terminology for them.

That’s why I prefer to use plug vs. jack/receptacle/socket for connector gender, and male vs. female (and non-gendered, for contacts like in USB) or pin vs. socket for the contacts.

I think my ideal terminology would be: plug vs. jack/receptacle for the connector gender, and pin vs. socket for the contact gender. (That is, incidentally, more or less the terminology that mil-style circular connectors use.) Unfortunately we can’t standardize on that since the commonwealth countries use “jack” for certain kinds of plugs. 

What I absolutely detest is when people refer to contacts as “pins” (i.e. saying “male pin” and “female pin”), and the aforementioned “jack plug” abomination.)

[tszaboo]

By prescribing chemical castration medication to kids under the guise of puberty blockers was and still remains the bridge way too far. A single child being affected for life is the result of such experimentation and all those involved should be... I'll leave it there. They've been on jury duty recently.

Agreed. I really wanted to avoid talking about that, but it's true.

There should even be more safeguards for adults, because there are legitimate concerns surrounding these treatments.

Heck, I'm pretty liberal when it comes to this in many respects. Gender non-conforming people have existed throughout human history. Some societies have been more tolerant than others. In tribes, the odd boy who wanted to perform woman's work i.e. picking berries, was allowed to do so, as was a woman who preferred to do men's work such as hunting, so long as they were good at it. Then there's the third gender, which is a nuanced topic. All societies which had/have a third gender acknowledge them to be either biologically male or female, just that they are don't fit the typical male/female binary in terms of male or female characteristics. Barbaric societies who castrated boys aside, it is only recently the idea of physical treatments for gender non-conforming people has been accepted.

But it's a crime, that gets swept under a rug.
Children get "diagnosed" and prescribed a lifetime of drugs based on a 30 minute discussion with "doctors". And if their parent tries to intervene, they might be arrested and jailed for that (in some countries) . And those drugs will make them infertile, disfigured and have a lifetime of dissatisfaction.
This has to stop, and whoever allowed it to happen should be treated like the Nuremberg trials.

I’m sorry, but you guys need to learn more about the actual process, and not what hysterical anti-trans people claim the process is!

No medical transition (including puberty blockers) begins until extensive psychotherapy has occurred, on the order of months to years. No doctor is going to do that after a single half hour talk with a kid. They won’t even do that with an adult! (And surgery isn’t on the table until you have been socially transitioned, i.e. living as the “target” gender full time, for a year or more.)

Is it conceivable, or even likely, that there have been individual doctors who did not adhere to this? Absolutely. But that’s not the norm, it is malpractice, since it does not conform to the established standards of care for this condition.

Critically, one cannot use such outliers as the basis by which they characterize an entire medical field — that is a dishonest tactic that is not a basis for rational discussions or decision making!

12000 cases just in one clinic, UK Tavistock. That's just one clinic. It's absolutely not rare, and not isolated.
I'm sorry, but because of bullshit like this, we don't care anymore, and you absolutely lost the moral high ground.
And yes, the backlash will set it back decades. Because innocent children were hurt.

mod: BTW I'm not angry at you. You are just misinformed, and have different sources. Keeping you in an information echo chamber. It's genuinely a big problem.
It's like the lady, who was using "forensic astrology" to explain a crime on tiktok, and people who listen to that. Misinformation presented as truth.

[tooki]

12000 cases just in one clinic, UK Tavistock. That's just one clinic. It's absolutely not rare, and not isolated.
I'm sorry, but because of bullshit like this, we don't care anymore, and you absolutely lost the moral high ground.
And yes, the backlash will set it back decades. Because innocent children were hurt.

mod: BTW I'm not angry at you. You are just misinformed, and have different sources. Keeping you in an information echo chamber. It's genuinely a big problem.
It's like the lady, who was using "forensic astrology" to explain a crime on tiktok, and people who listen to that. Misinformation presented as truth.

Except that researching the very example you give does not corroborate your claim.

That this clinic was closed shows the system working correctly: a deficit is identified and corrective measures taken.

And of course the whole reason it was one major clinic is because at the time, the UK concentrated those services into one clinic on purpose. They did not close it and discontinue its services, they closed it and transferred the services to a much larger number of small clinics.

What doesn’t help is claiming that 12000 children were harmed. That is an unsupported claim that suggests to me that it is you who is uninformed.

[tszaboo]

12000 cases just in one clinic, UK Tavistock. That's just one clinic. It's absolutely not rare, and not isolated.
I'm sorry, but because of bullshit like this, we don't care anymore, and you absolutely lost the moral high ground.
And yes, the backlash will set it back decades. Because innocent children were hurt.

mod: BTW I'm not angry at you. You are just misinformed, and have different sources. Keeping you in an information echo chamber. It's genuinely a big problem.
It's like the lady, who was using "forensic astrology" to explain a crime on tiktok, and people who listen to that. Misinformation presented as truth.

Except that researching the very example you give does not corroborate your claim.

That this clinic was closed shows the system working correctly: a deficit is identified and corrective measures taken.

And of course the whole reason it was one major clinic is because at the time, the UK concentrated those services into one clinic on purpose. They did not close it and discontinue its services, they closed it and transferred the services to a much larger number of small clinics.

What doesn’t help is claiming that 12000 children were harmed. That is an unsupported claim that suggests to me that it is you who is uninformed.

Except that's not what happened. There was gaslighting, social media bans an the usual woke washing around it. Nobody is under criminal investigation about it. 1000 family sue them in a civil lawsuit.
An what I literally rea from your comment: "we'll keep on doing the same thing, but make it more difficult to investigate".
This is an issue, that genuinely affect about 0.03% of the population, that have real genetic issues, an require (or want) treatment. And they cannot get it, not in the required quality, because the clinics are overloaded with trendsexual people, confused children and men who have fetishes.

[tooki]

Except that's not what happened. There was gaslighting, social media bans an the usual woke washing around it. Nobody is under criminal investigation about it. 1000 family sue them in a civil lawsuit.
An what I literally rea from your comment: "we'll keep on doing the same thing, but make it more difficult to investigate".

I know there was malfeasance there, which is why it was closed. The services were transferred to other clinics, which means there is less self-reinforcement of attitudes in one place; this should very much help the issues in question.

This is an issue, that genuinely affect about 0.03% of the population, that have real genetic issues, an require (or want) treatment. And they cannot get it, not in the required quality, because the clinics are overloaded with trendsexual people, confused children and men who have fetishes.

Nobody is becoming transgender because it’s trendy: it makes zero sense to voluntarily subject oneself to ongoing harassment and discrimination, especially in this political climate. The reason we have seen more people come out as trans in recent years is because of the overall greater acceptance. I expect that the current backlash (driven by conservatives using it as a wedge issue) will result in statistically fewer people coming out as trans over the next years.

As for confused children: they should be under clinical care, precisely to help them figure things out. (Remember, one of the possible outcomes of “figuring it out” is “oh, I guess I am cis after all”.)

[tszaboo]

Except that's not what happened. There was gaslighting, social media bans an the usual woke washing around it. Nobody is under criminal investigation about it. 1000 family sue them in a civil lawsuit.
An what I literally rea from your comment: "we'll keep on doing the same thing, but make it more difficult to investigate".

I know there was malfeasance there, which is why it was closed. The services were transferred to other clinics, which means there is less self-reinforcement of attitudes in one place; this should very much help the issues in question.

This is an issue, that genuinely affect about 0.03% of the population, that have real genetic issues, an require (or want) treatment. And they cannot get it, not in the required quality, because the clinics are overloaded with trendsexual people, confused children and men who have fetishes.

Nobody is becoming transgender because it’s trendy: it makes zero sense to voluntarily subject oneself to ongoing harassment and discrimination, especially in this political climate. The reason we have seen more people come out as trans in recent years is because of the overall greater acceptance. I expect that the current backlash (driven by conservatives using it as a wedge issue) will result in statistically fewer people coming out as trans over the next years.

As for confused children: they should be under clinical care, precisely to help them figure things out. (Remember, one of the possible outcomes of “figuring it out” is “oh, I guess I am cis after all”.)

You know, the "nobody" claims are the easiest to rebut, because even one example proves it wrong.
https://torontosun.com/news/world/transgender-psychologist-suggests-peer-pressure-causing-teens-to-transition
Now, my question is: are you going to debate people, who are expert in their filed, who have first hand experience, and who agree with me?
And no, it's not a discovery. Those hormones (which are the same used for chemical castration) are irreversible.

[SteveThackery]

Nobody is becoming transgender because it’s trendy...

Oh my god, you actually believe that? 😳 Guys - @tooki actually believes that!

There are many reasons to declare yourself different from the norm, and I'm absolutely not going to explain it all to you because I can see it would be a waste of time.

But yes - it's irrefutable that there are enormous societal trends around gender identity.

[tszaboo]

Nobody is becoming transgender because it’s trendy...

Oh my god, you actually believe that? 😳 Guys - @tooki actually believes that!

There are many reasons to declare yourself different from the norm, and I'm absolutely not going to explain it all to you because I can see it would be a waste of time.

But yes - it's irrefutable that there are enormous societal trends around gender identity.

Please don't mock him, he just made a bad argument.
This is likely the first rational and cool headed discussion I had with someone who has those beliefs in years.

[tooki]

Except that's not what happened. There was gaslighting, social media bans an the usual woke washing around it. Nobody is under criminal investigation about it. 1000 family sue them in a civil lawsuit.
An what I literally rea from your comment: "we'll keep on doing the same thing, but make it more difficult to investigate".

I know there was malfeasance there, which is why it was closed. The services were transferred to other clinics, which means there is less self-reinforcement of attitudes in one place; this should very much help the issues in question.

This is an issue, that genuinely affect about 0.03% of the population, that have real genetic issues, an require (or want) treatment. And they cannot get it, not in the required quality, because the clinics are overloaded with trendsexual people, confused children and men who have fetishes.

Nobody is becoming transgender because it’s trendy: it makes zero sense to voluntarily subject oneself to ongoing harassment and discrimination, especially in this political climate. The reason we have seen more people come out as trans in recent years is because of the overall greater acceptance. I expect that the current backlash (driven by conservatives using it as a wedge issue) will result in statistically fewer people coming out as trans over the next years.

As for confused children: they should be under clinical care, precisely to help them figure things out. (Remember, one of the possible outcomes of “figuring it out” is “oh, I guess I am cis after all”.)

You know, the "nobody" claims are the easiest to rebut, because even one example proves it wrong.

Ugh, fine, be a pedant. You know damned well that in that kind of sentence in ordinary speech, “nobody” means “practically nobody”. I am terribly sorry that I forgot to include an explicit “practically”.

https://torontosun.com/news/world/transgender-psychologist-suggests-peer-pressure-causing-teens-to-transition
Now, my question is: are you going to debate people, who are expert in their filed, who have first hand experience, and who agree with me?

I don’t need to. As far as I know, that isn’t a widely held opinion in the field. You can find examples of climate scientists who disavow anthropogenic climate change, or of doctors who believe MMR vaccines cause autism, but that doesn’t mean it’s the consensus among experts in those fields.

And no, it's not a discovery. Those hormones (which are the same used for chemical castration) are irreversible.

Sorry, I don’t know what discovery you’re referring to.

However, puberty blockers are reversible (or to be more exact, non-permanent, since you don’t need to actively reverse them, just discontinue use) — exactly like chemical castration, which is also non-permanent and reverts after discontinuation. That is literally the point of puberty blockers: to delay (not permanently prevent) puberty, such that when the uncertainty has been resolved, the blockers are discontinued, and either natural (cis) puberty occurs, or alternative hormones can be administered to effect puberty to the opposite sex.

If puberty blockers had an irreversible effect, there would be no point in using them, since it would prevent both of the possible desired outcomes!

[tooki]

Nobody is becoming transgender because it’s trendy...

Oh my god, you actually believe that? 😳 Guys - @tooki actually believes that!

I do, and I stand by that belief proudly, because everything else requires far greater mental contortions and suspension of logic and established findings.

I hope you can understand that I am in equal, if not greater, disbelief that anyone would think someone would somehow choose to be transgender just because it’s trendy, never mind that it’s widespread.

There are many reasons to declare yourself different from the norm, and I'm absolutely not going to explain it all to you because I can see it would be a waste of time.

But yes - it's irrefutable that there are enormous societal trends around gender identity.

Of course there are, but I already addressed it: greater acceptance means greater willingness to come out (or even merely explore one’s identity) publicly. But one’s gender identity is far too deep-rooted to be unseated by something as trivial as trends. If it were something one could choose to change (which is not the same as suppressing), then nobody would need gender reassignment treatment at all.

[negativ3]

Nobody is becoming transgender because it’s trendy...

Oh my god, you actually believe that? 😳 Guys - @tooki actually believes that!

I do, and I stand by that belief proudly, because everything else requires far greater mental contortions and suspension of logic and established findings.

I hope you can understand that I am in equal, if not greater, disbelief that anyone would think someone would somehow choose to be transgender just because it’s trendy, never mind that it’s widespread.

There are many reasons to declare yourself different from the norm, and I'm absolutely not going to explain it all to you because I can see it would be a waste of time.

But yes - it's irrefutable that there are enormous societal trends around gender identity.

Of course there are, but I already addressed it: greater acceptance means greater willingness to come out (or even merely explore one’s identity) publicly. But one’s gender identity is far too deep-rooted to be unseated by something as trivial as trends. If it were something one could choose to change (which is not the same as suppressing), then nobody would need gender reassignment treatment at all.

Socially transmitted beliefs are a reality.
There are several robust studies and examples of such in recent history, affecting mainly young women but not all, obviously.
Social contagions can be hypocritical and self contradictory, obviously.