"Smart" TVs, AI and basically spying on people...

[Superglob]

Came across this how basically almost every device hoovers up data to be processed. In this case, an LG 'smart' TV that literally records audio, turns it into text and analyzes it.



If anyone has schematics for any of these TV's I'd love to have a look at them, as I couldn't find any...

[Analog Kid]

Came across this how basically almost every device hoovers up data to be processed. In this case, an LG 'smart' TV that literally records audio, turns it into text and analyzes it.

These guys have increased my opinion of gamers 1000%. They're doing valuable public service here.

Fuck those smart TV manufacturers (and everyone else associated with them).
Perhaps some drone attacks on their HQs are in order.

[BrianHG]

'We own the glass.  We own the TV.  We own the living room.'

Next: We own your eyes, your ears, whatever you say, and whatever you think...

Wait a sec, in a sense, this is actually already true.  Orwell is spinning in his grave...

[Analog Kid]

One thing in that video I don't get us when they disconnected from the network and the TV still recorded (and saved) the audio. And they said in the absence of a network connection the TV could use neighboring WiFi networks.

But how? Aren't most WiFi systems password protected?
Would they just look for the first one that isn't? (Some people don't bother.)

[BrianHG]

Keep on scanning all WiFi networks non-stop, and eventually you will get someone pressing that button on their WiFi router which temporarily grants any device access and feeds them a password.

And yes, TV will find nearby free public access WiFi networks, or find someone who has their router set to no password.

[Halcyon]

LG aren't the only ones, some manufacturers have been using ACR (Automatic Content Recognition) for years. I actually wrote an article about this last year.

Some manufacturer's have it on by default. I have a Sony TV from a few years ago and it appears to be opt-in.

[newbrain]

I actually wrote an article about this last year.

Is it available online? I'm pretty sure many would be interested!

TIA

[tom66]

I rooted my LG webOS Smart TV the other day because of concerns over privacy.  All software updates disabled, all telemetry disabled, plus apps that LG won't let you have. 

Automatic content recognition is evil, because you can imagine playing a Blu-Ray from a decade ago and the TV going, "hmm, where's your licence for that, mate?"

[krish2487]

One option is to setup a vlan on the router only for such "smart devices" and disallow any internet access to the vlan...

[madires]

We've already got a thread about the same topic:
 TVs sniffing around.. https://www.eevblog.com/forum/security/tvs-sniffing-around/

[Halcyon]

I actually wrote an article about this last year.

Is it available online? I'm pretty sure many would be interested!

TIA

It is, however the only reason I haven't posted a link to it here is because it names me. I'd rather keep my full name and this forum seperate. But just Google ACR, there is a ton of material out there about how it works.

[NiHaoMike]

The fix would be to make a hacked firmware that floods the tracking with fake data.

[Red Squirrel]

Not surprised at all, I always suspected it. Phones and pretty much all "smart" devices do the same. I just wish something was actually done about it.

[NiHaoMike]

Not surprised at all, I always suspected it. Phones and pretty much all "smart" devices do the same. I just wish something was actually done about it.

The answer is open source firmware such as LineageOS.

[Red Squirrel]

Not surprised at all, I always suspected it. Phones and pretty much all "smart" devices do the same. I just wish something was actually done about it.

The answer is open source firmware such as LineageOS.

That's personally what I do, but it's becoming harder and harder, everything seems to be designed around requiring you have Apple or Google's ecosystem. Right now one product I have has a recall, and only way to participate is to download an app from the play store to take the picture.  Been trying to get them to give me a way for me to just send them pictures directly but just been getting the run around.  Things like parking meters etc are starting to move towards apps too. Really hate this whole system they got us locked into.  While there are ways to get these apps to work in custom roms it's very hit and miss.  The particular one for the recall for example detects that it's a "modified device" so won't run. 

I try to avoid buying anything that requires apps in general, but it's getting harder and harder. 

[Zucca]

Not surprised at all, I always suspected it. Phones and pretty much all "smart" devices do the same. I just wish something was actually done about it.

The answer is open source firmware such as LineageOS.

Or grapheneos

[Randy222]

I rooted my LG webOS Smart TV the other day because of concerns over privacy.  All software updates disabled, all telemetry disabled, plus apps that LG won't let you have. 

Automatic content recognition is evil, because you can imagine playing a Blu-Ray from a decade ago and the TV going, "hmm, where's your licence for that, mate?"

What about Wifi tracking of objects in the area? A phased array antenna (small pcb) with a Nexcom driver, can be used to track movements. Some ISP's now do this as a pay-for security service..... which was not available just a month or so ago, yet no need to swap out the wifi enabled modem. Tells you something.

[Psi]

Get a good 4k projector and a media PC.
None of this Smart TV crap.

If you want a mic for voice control stuff use Home Assistant

[Randy222]

Get a good 4k projector and a media PC.
None of this Smart TV crap.

If you want a mic for voice control stuff use Home Assistant

That 216,000,000 # is the avg joe buying what's available in the region. Does Panasonic have any of this spying crap?

It's also possible to just not connect it to wifi so it cannot do realtime spying, and then do firmware updates via USB. Surely that defeats the apps on TV, but most of those apps can be obtained on a roku device or other.

[Monkeh]

It's also possible to just not connect it to wifi so it cannot do realtime spying

That won't last. They 'own the glass', and the ISPs 'own the router', so they'll just make contracts for access to ISP operated networks if you don't connect it to one of your own (or it finds itself unable to make contact over yours). And they'll make sure to exchange enough data to identify your home connection and devices for the purpose of pushing drug ads.

[Psi]

It's also possible to just not connect it to wifi so it cannot do realtime spying

That won't last. They 'own the glass', and the ISPs 'own the router', so they'll just make contracts for access to ISP operated networks if you don't connect it to one of your own (or it finds itself unable to make contact over yours). And they'll make sure to exchange enough data to identify your home connection and devices for the purpose of pushing drug ads.

There's a limit how far they can push things.  They are reaching it now with people starting to push back.
All it will take is a few high profile cases of the spying leading to something tragic and this issue will be pushed more into the public eye where it can get some real traction.

Most 1st world countries where the government is somewhat function will pass laws to stop it, but I'm really not sure what will happen in the USA where lobbying is king and there's no real voting freedom due to having a two party system where winner takes all.  You really need minor parties rising in popularity and taking power away from the bigger parties to scare them into actually doing things against what the lobbyist want.

[madires]

It's also possible to just not connect it to wifi so it cannot do realtime spying, and then do firmware updates via USB. Surely that defeats the apps on TV, but most of those apps can be obtained on a roku device or other.

IIRC, Gamer Nexus didn't test if LG TVs automatically connect to open WiFi networks, but some comments they showed indicate that. Since you can only contol your own WiFI network it would make sense to short the TV's WiFi antennas to prevent it from connecting to some open WiFi.

[madires]

It's also possible to just not connect it to wifi so it cannot do realtime spying

That won't last. They 'own the glass', and the ISPs 'own the router', so they'll just make contracts for access to ISP operated networks if you don't connect it to one of your own (or it finds itself unable to make contact over yours). And they'll make sure to exchange enough data to identify your home connection and devices for the purpose of pushing drug ads.

That could become a real concern since some carriers/telcos are pushing their hotspot feature onto CPEs. So it should be easy for smart TV manufacturers to negotiate a deal with local carriers/telcos to use their hotspots for phoning home in case a consumer won't connect the TV to his network. Maybe connecting the TV to an isolated network would help, i.e. no internet access and not trying to connect to any open WiFi.

[PlainName]

It's also possible to just not connect it to wifi so it cannot do realtime spying

That won't last. They 'own the glass', and the ISPs 'own the router', so they'll just make contracts for access to ISP operated networks if you don't connect it to one of your own (or it finds itself unable to make contact over yours). And they'll make sure to exchange enough data to identify your home connection and devices for the purpose of pushing drug ads.

There's a limit how far they can push things.  They are reaching it now with people starting to push back.
All it will take is a few high profile cases of the spying leading to something tragic and this issue will be pushed more into the public eye where it can get some real traction.

The slippery downward slope may have a few flat and level spots, but those just mark the new normal each time the slide is a bit too quick. There is never an upward slope, or a stable level.

[tszaboo]

'We own the glass.  We own the TV.  We own the living room.'

Funny enough, they didn't really feel like owning it when they had to repair mine.
They didn't step up and pay for that.