Author Topic: Why does everyone have twenty oscilliscopes?  (Read 86819 times)

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Offline OldSchoolTechCorner

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Re: Why does everyone have twenty oscilliscopes?
« Reply #200 on: November 04, 2015, 06:37:28 pm »
I bought a new 210 back in the mid 90s, still use it to this day.  While I don't totally disagree with the above, it does have it's place, and has a couple advantages to any Rigol.  Mostly notably it's never once locked up, and it dead silent with no fan.

Roughly the same but with colour, I've had a TDS2024B for nearly ten years, for six or so years it was my only scope, it is super reliable, I still have it although now I have other scopes. While it is a little painful to use now I've used other more feature laden scopes, as my first DSO it was simple to use coming from a CRO background and it did the job. It helped me make some successful products and make an unexpected but welcome change of career path in my late forties. As a result it has some sentimental value now.

Was the first DSO I learned on and purchased. So in a way do have a soft spot for it. 

I bought a new 210 back in the mid 90s, still use it to this day.  While I don't totally disagree with the above, it does have it's place, and has a couple advantages to any Rigol.  Mostly notably it's never once locked up, and it dead silent with no fan.

Don't care for Rigol scopes as had tried a couple and first one was defective after about a week, as channel started cutting out at random and second one kept locking up issues at random. One thing I do give them credit for is they changed the market and pretty much forced HP and Tektronix to start innovating again.
Not really, Tek has still scopes that have a whopping 10k points of storage  :palm:, and the Agilent scopes are expensive as always, and their memory is also very limited.
Innovation is not always using the latest technology, but also create better/cheaper products. This were both companies still fail.

Expensive as always is a understatement, Rigol DS1054Z is pretty much the best value for the buck, when it comes to budget scopes. That one thing both Agilent and Tektronix are both failing at, is coming out with a good budget scope. Good example is the Tektronix TDS2012C at $1430.80 and only 2.5k point Record Length on both Channels? The only decents model they currently have out cost 4k plus. They do have some good models, but only on the higher end of the market.

Not saying that HP and Tektronix has to be at the same $399 price point as Rigol, as do realize that they could be very well cutting corners and rushing stuff to the market to get at that price point and is from China, but come out with a decent refreshed model budget scope at around and no more then 1k price point. They seem to only be after the fat margin and rebadging stuff. 

Rigol I am no fan off as like I stated before, I think they after the quick buck. To me stuff is just rush out the door with bugs and all. I had alone myself had one defective scope and another that just kept on locking up.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2015, 07:37:13 pm by OldSchoolTechCorner »
 

Offline FlyingHacker

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Re: Why does everyone have twenty oscilliscopes?
« Reply #201 on: November 04, 2015, 06:52:30 pm »
I've been watching a couple of TDS220s on eBay.com.au,as they are a nice looking DSO,although old & with poor memory depth.
Actually,they are a couple of Dave's ones--one OK,the other doesn't pass one of the startup tests.

I've been thinking that maybe I've been a bit harsh with my bashing of early DSOs,& it might be fun to play with one at my leisure.

I found this review -----actually of a TDS210,but they are pretty similar.
This bloke doesn't like them a lot--the clip is definitely NSFW!


I still like the look of 'em,though,even with the "leaky fountain pen" display!

I'm an Old Fart now,& I haven't really got the time before I "fall off the perch" to buy every Oscilloscope in the world,as that's just more junk for my wife to dispose of,so perhaps I should be selling,not buying!

My thought is to get at least one analog scope, one modern DSO, and perhaps a hybrid, like the Tek 2232, which I find myself using first most of the time (unless I need more channels). It is an analog scope and a DSO in one. Sure, it lacks all the little auto readouts and stuff, but it has a great CRT display, and can be used either in analog mode, or digital mode.
--73
 

Offline Weistek

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Re: Why does everyone have twenty oscilliscopes?
« Reply #202 on: November 04, 2015, 09:56:52 pm »

I face the same battles as well. Except I get caught more often than not.. sitting at work a large package arrives at home and I get a text "wtf did you order now!.."



Now you did it >:(, I started laughing at your comment. Did not realized that the Wify was reading over my shoulder...   [emoji14]alm: The inquisitor as summoned me... trying to get my stories right. HELP.
Lol, it's like their shoe collection.. right? Ask her to justify all the shoes  (if in fact she has a collection of sorts.)

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Offline Weistek

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Re: Why does everyone have twenty oscilliscopes?
« Reply #203 on: November 04, 2015, 10:01:04 pm »
Just picked up a hp 1660c, I know not really a scope and old as hell. But it came with everything disks, flying lead cables all 6 pods and 5 nano clips. And a few other things. The nano clips alone justify the purchase plus I can use the flying leads etc on my tla704. :)

I think my next scope will be a tek 2400 series. Also have a tek 1GHz 4 channel coming my way :) so that will make 6 or 7 scopes so far..

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Offline Howardlong

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Re: Why does everyone have twenty oscilliscopes?
« Reply #204 on: November 04, 2015, 11:26:42 pm »
I've been watching a couple of TDS220s on eBay.com.au,as they are a nice looking DSO,although old & with poor memory depth.
Actually,they are a couple of Dave's ones--one OK,the other doesn't pass one of the startup tests.

I've been thinking that maybe I've been a bit harsh with my bashing of early DSOs,& it might be fun to play with one at my leisure.

I found this review -----actually of a TDS210,but they are pretty similar.
This bloke doesn't like them a lot--the clip is definitely NSFW!


I still like the look of 'em,though,even with the "leaky fountain pen" display!

I'm an Old Fart now,& I haven't really got the time before I "fall off the perch" to buy every Oscilloscope in the world,as that's just more junk for my wife to dispose of,so perhaps I should be selling,not buying!

The aliasing thing is overplayed as a problem, it's a contrived test that would very rarely happen realistically. While occasionally you might encounter it, in practice it's rare, after all in almost all cases you should at least have some idea of the order of magnitude of the timing you're probing. You need to be aware of it, but I can't ever remember it being a problem.

The very fact you have single shot and pre trigger viewing makes this a better investment than a CRO of similar or even greater bandwidth. When I was having a clear out a few years back and had to decide between a 2465B and a TDS2024B, it was the 2465B that went. I have since moved into a bigger lab and made up for it though :-;
« Last Edit: November 04, 2015, 11:28:24 pm by Howardlong »
 

Online G0HZU

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Re: Why does everyone have twenty oscilliscopes?
« Reply #205 on: November 05, 2015, 12:01:38 am »
Quote
When I was having a clear out a few years back and had to decide between a 2465B and a TDS2024B, it was the 2465B that went.

Yes, I still use my old TDS2012 as my daily scope. I also have a trusty old Tek 465 analogue scope. I don't think I'd like to choose between them as they are both very useful in their own way and I really do like the old Tek 465.

For basic everyday stuff the little TDS2012 is much nicer to use than any of the £££ modern scopes we have at work. Sure it has some serious performance limitations but as a basic scope it is easy to use and it is small, light and totally silent in operation. So for doing simple MCU related stuff it is great because you can move it around easily on the desk and also it produces no distracting or tiring fan noise. Having total silence in the room helps with concentration when debugging code etc.



 

Offline vk6zgo

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Re: Why does everyone have twenty oscilliscopes?
« Reply #206 on: November 07, 2015, 02:35:07 am »
I notice Dave's working TDS220 is sailing along well in the eBay bidding.
The most recent was $297,so they still seem to have a loyal following---------a bit too rich for my blood! ;D

The dead one was withdrawn due to a "listing error".
Are you going to re-list it,Dave?
 

Offline crispy_tofu

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Re: Why does everyone have twenty oscilliscopes?
« Reply #207 on: November 07, 2015, 02:53:30 am »
I notice Dave's working TDS220 is sailing along well in the eBay bidding.
The most recent was $297,so they still seem to have a loyal following---------a bit too rich for my blood! ;D

The dead one was withdrawn due to a "listing error".
Are you going to re-list it,Dave?

I'm pretty sure Dave already re-listed it, there's one he's selling that says to read the description.  :-+
This one: http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/272037200427
 

Offline vk6zgo

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Re: Why does everyone have twenty oscilliscopes?
« Reply #208 on: November 07, 2015, 03:39:22 am »
Yep! I found it after I posted!

I just went for my regular trawl through eBay.com.au.
You see some funny things there from time to time.
Like this bloke:-

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Atten-Single-Channel-10Mhz-Analog-Oscilloscope-and-Probe-/111653168791?


A  Digitech QC1920 clone at that price?

"Tell 'im he's dreaming!" ;D





 

Offline Martin.M

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Re: Why does everyone have twenty oscilliscopes?
« Reply #209 on: November 07, 2015, 08:28:50 am »
sorry I don`t know how many scopes I have exactly, there are some nice oldies (all are fully restorated and ready to work)

this little Tek invasion I have done in a radio museum for a small time, in my home is the space really small now..
the only problem is to use more the 3 of them in same time, that can blow out the fuse from the working room by overload  |O


greetings
Martin
« Last Edit: November 07, 2015, 08:33:17 am by Martin.M »
 

Offline crispy_tofu

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Re: Why does everyone have twenty oscilliscopes?
« Reply #210 on: November 07, 2015, 09:27:23 am »
Is that another one in the box? Are you alright?  :o  :popcorn:
 

Offline tautech

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Re: Why does everyone have twenty oscilliscopes?
« Reply #211 on: November 07, 2015, 09:31:20 am »
Is that another one in the box? Are you alright?  :o  :popcorn:
You'd better check out Martin's Tek thread:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/vintage-tek-restoration-pictures-by-martin/
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Offline crispy_tofu

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Re: Why does everyone have twenty oscilliscopes?
« Reply #212 on: November 07, 2015, 09:55:29 am »
I have no words.  :clap: :-+
 

Offline Smith

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Re: Why does everyone have twenty oscilliscopes?
« Reply #213 on: November 07, 2015, 10:24:03 am »
Damn, I only have 3 scopes, guess I have to save some more  ^-^

Let's face it, some of us have more scopes than we (can) use. Its like having a large car collection, but more affordable. Some have their strengths, or their cool or unique features.
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Offline miguelvp

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Re: Why does everyone have twenty oscilliscopes?
« Reply #214 on: November 07, 2015, 10:42:06 am »
So far I think only a couple reached the 20 scopes.
The median is about 3 or 4, not 20.

But I'm guessing, not going to tabulate it.

 

Offline Wuerstchenhund

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Re: Why does everyone have twenty oscilliscopes?
« Reply #215 on: November 07, 2015, 11:46:41 am »
Don't care for Rigol scopes as had tried a couple and first one was defective after about a week, as channel started cutting out at random and second one kept locking up issues at random. One thing I do give them credit for is they changed the market and pretty much forced HP and Tektronix to start innovating again.

I'm sorry but aside from sticking a poor spec Spectrum Analyzer in an entry level scope Tek hasn't really been innovative for a very long time. Which is no surprise considering it's part of the Danaher "family".

In terms of innovating in DSOs it's to a large part LeCroy who has been and still is pushing technology ahead, even more so than Keysight (HP doesn't do scopes or T&M for almost two decades now so there's no point calling them "HP"). Especially in the extreme high-end there's pretty much LeCroy and nothing else, not even Keysight.

Tek has been pretty much trailing LeCroy and Agilent/Keysight for the last 15 years or so. I wish this wasn't the case as more competition is always better for buyers, also Tek had some of the best analog scopes ever made. However Tek always seemed to struggle when the world moved to digital scopes, and they still do.

Not really, Tek has still scopes that have a whopping 10k points of storage  :palm:, and the Agilent scopes are expensive as always, and their memory is also very limited.
Innovation is not always using the latest technology, but also create better/cheaper products. This were both companies still fail.

Expensive as always is a understatement, Rigol DS1054Z is pretty much the best value for the buck, when it comes to budget scopes. That one thing both Agilent and Tektronix are both failing at, is coming out with a good budget scope.

I don't know, the Keysight DSOX2000 is still a pretty good entry level scope scope, and there's also Rohde & Schwarz with their Hameg R&S Value Instruments HMO Series which includes some really nice low-end scopes. And some of them aren't that much more expensive than a Rigol DS1054z.

Quote
Good example is the Tektronix TDS2012C at $1430.80 and only 2.5k point Record Length on both Channels? The only decents model they currently have out cost 4k plus. They do have some good models, but only on the higher end of the market.

Not really. Tek's higher end is pretty dire, too, aside from the DPO70kSX which has a nice form factor for ATEs (which on the other side makes it a poor bench scope). They're essentially milking their old DPO7k/70k scopes which were't great when they came out (sluggish UI, slow processing) and by now are now pretty dated in comparison.

Quote
Not saying that HP and Tektronix has to be at the same $399 price point as Rigol, as do realize that they could be very well cutting corners and rushing stuff to the market to get at that price point and is from China, but come out with a decent refreshed model budget scope at around and no more then 1k price point. They seem to only be after the fat margin and rebadging stuff. 

There's a certain price point where coming out with their own product just isn't worth it, so big brands like Keysight and LeCroy just re-badge cheap Chinese scopes and Tek essentially milks their stone-age entry level designs. Some got bitten (i.e. LeCroy with their crap WaveAce Siglent rebadges), others like Agilent/Keysight had more luck (because Rigol is still somewhat better at firmware than Siglent).

Quote
Rigol I am no fan off as like I stated before, I think they after the quick buck. To me stuff is just rush out the door with bugs and all. I had alone myself had one defective scope and another that just kept on locking up.

I'm not a fan of Rigol myself, but the fact remains that the DS1054z is incredible value for money, and despite its problems its still a very good beginner's scope.

However, the thing to remember however that we're no longer in the analog scopes era where Tek and HP were pretty much the only vendors worth considering. The market has changed a lot since then. Tek has been pretty much left behind technologically due to a long-term lack of innovation (which will be difficult to overcome). Keysight offers great scopes but especailly the larger models are regularly very expensive. LeCroy offers the most advanced scopes on the market (and for some stuff are the only game in town), however their low end (everything below the WaveSurfer 3000) is made of rebadges and pretty much sucks. Rohde & Schwarz offers some very nice and mostly decently priced entry level scopes under their 'Value Instruments' label (formerly 'Hameg') and some really good but really expensive upper mid-range and lower high-end scopes (RTM/RTE/RTO). Rigol offers the cheapest 4 channel scope on the market (DS1054z) which is a real bargain, however its larger scope models (DS4000/DS6000) pretty much suck. Siglent also offers some bottom-of-the-barrel scopes at low prices (although most of them are 2ch) but they have shown to be pretty much incompetent at writing firmware and tend to bring products to market which are full of bugs.

That means these days it's not enough to look at HP Agilent Keysight and Tek because that means you pretty much miss out on most of what's available out there.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2015, 12:43:28 pm by Wuerstchenhund »
 

Offline HighVoltage

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Re: Why does everyone have twenty oscilliscopes?
« Reply #216 on: November 07, 2015, 12:00:34 pm »
So far I think only a couple reached the 20 scopes.
The median is about 3 or 4, not 20.

But I'm guessing, not going to tabulate it.

I just counted my scopes for the first time.... and I barely make the 20...
But it took many years to get here...

15 scopes hooked up in the lab on different benches
7 used scopes stored away for future projects
2 brand new Hameg scopes not used in boxes
1 really old leader scope brand new in original box
4 Handheld Tek scopes, stored away in their case
1 Agilent USB and
1 Pico USB scope 
1 stupid (iPhone size) miniature scope
 
And most of them are used on a regular basis.
What can I say, I just love scopes
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Offline Martin.M

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Re: Why does everyone have twenty oscilliscopes?
« Reply #217 on: November 07, 2015, 12:19:49 pm »
I would like to see a handheld Tek scope in action,
bec I am interested to buy one for my collection.

greetings
Martin
 

Offline SLJ

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Re: Why does everyone have twenty oscilliscopes?
« Reply #218 on: November 07, 2015, 12:59:10 pm »
Just counted and I'm at 10.  Two I use, a Tek 465 and Rigol DS1074Z.  The other eight are the vintage and antique ones in my test equipment collection.

Offline HighVoltage

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Re: Why does everyone have twenty oscilliscopes?
« Reply #219 on: November 07, 2015, 01:10:11 pm »
I would like to see a handheld Tek scope in action,
bec I am interested to buy one for my collection.

greetings
Martin

I have to look for some action pictures
Here is my collection of my Tek Handhelds.
One of them is brand new, never turned on

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Offline Weistek

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Re: Why does everyone have twenty oscilliscopes?
« Reply #220 on: November 07, 2015, 04:04:26 pm »
I want one...

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Offline Smith

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Re: Why does everyone have twenty oscilliscopes?
« Reply #221 on: November 07, 2015, 05:32:43 pm »
I have used a lot of scopes. I only really hated the LeCrap scope (can't remember the type, but it was quite expensive).

I used to love the Tek scopes, but nowadays you get less scope for more money. Tek has never been the same after the Danaher group ruined them. Old Teks have such a high degree of quality, they are as nice to use as they are to repair.

I have been quite pleased with the Hameg HMO. It lacks fast waveform updates, but everything else works like a charm.

I only used the 6104 from Rigol, but quality was far better than I and others expected. Everything was working so much better and faster than my 15k Tek DPO4104 (2,5 times as expensive).

Never really liked the (cheap as well as expensive) USB scopes in general.
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Offline Muxr

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Re: Why does everyone have twenty oscilliscopes?
« Reply #222 on: January 29, 2016, 01:10:06 am »
I think I can now be classified as a junior scope collector as well. 5 scopes:

- Hameg 605 (that will need some repair soon, I think it's finally time for recapping).
- Rigol DS2072A
- HP 54610B
- R&S RTM 1054
- Tek 465B (also needs work).
 

Offline uncle_bob

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Re: Why does everyone have twenty oscilliscopes?
« Reply #223 on: January 29, 2016, 02:41:30 am »
ummm .... errrr .... was I supposed to *stop* at twenty ??? I mean, they were just *sitting there* .....

(Yes, for the record, I'm well over 20, along with numerous piles of other sorts of test gear )
« Last Edit: January 29, 2016, 12:43:55 pm by uncle_bob »
 

Offline billfernandez

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Re: Why does everyone have twenty oscilliscopes?
« Reply #224 on: January 29, 2016, 03:34:02 am »
I only have two that I use. The other five or six are for historical value. 
This one's my favorite:


That is super cool!
 


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