Oh NO! I'm never buying any Agilent Keysight equipment ever again!

[ebclr]

The button failed after 2 year and 11 months, no other mouse that i know can go so long. We are in days of Planned obsolescence, and I disagree Logitech is  not crap is a good mouse

[wraper]

The button failed after 2 year and 11 months, no other mouse that i know can go so long.

There are tons of cheap mouses which work fine for a decade.

[rch]

The button failed after 2 year and 11 months, no other mouse that i know can go so long.

There are tons of cheap mouses which work fine for a decade.

I've got a Logitech trackball that must be coming up to 20 years old and it works fine.

[ebclr]

Any fix that cost more than 20% of a new product is predatory, specially if is a project issue.

I don't receive free keisight instruments for review.

[GlowingGhoul]

Any fix that cost more than 20% of a new product is predatory, specially if is a project issue.

I don't receive free keisight instruments for review.

So no matter what's wrong, the repair shouldn't cost "more than 20% of the new product price" or a company is being predatory??

I feel like I've been shipwrecked on the Isle of Stupid.

[nanofrog]

I've got a Logitech trackball that must be coming up to 20 years old and it works fine.

Same here.

I've 2 of them, and all I've ever had to do is clean the ball area out when needed. 

[Jwalling]

Any fix that cost more than 20% of a new product is predatory, specially if is a project issue.

I don't receive free keisight instruments for review.

So no matter what's wrong, the repair shouldn't cost "more than 20% of the new product price" or a company is being predatory??

I feel like I've been shipwrecked on the Isle of Stupid.

No kidding.  What if it was a (out of warranty) scope worth $200K and suffered major damage during a lightning strike and the ACQ board was completely blown and BER?

Jay

[MT]

If a replacement is offered and it is close to the expiration period, there needs to be a minimal amount such as 6 months, a year, etc. in case the replacement is a bad unit.  Same deal on a repair, or at least the repaired component needs to have warranty coverage if IT is the issue a second time.

Manufacturers that offer a premium product should naturally have longer warranties.  While technically they are not responsible for 1 day outside of warranty, a company that wants to maintain a good relationship with their customers, especially those companies where you pay a premium, they should do all they can do maintain that good relationship.  Always that is covering a design fault even out of warranty IMHO if they care about their reputation.  Sometimes that is a repair outside of warranty depending on the situation.  They should also always try to do repairs at a reasonable price.  I think that is probably my biggest issue with the way they have handled this case.  Yes, it is out of warranty, but (a) they would have been wise given the situation to keep their customer happy, and (b) their repair estimate was insanely high.

I once had a Canon camera, and not a pricy one, that was probably 5 times out of warranty because it was so old.  It developed an issue and I called them and they said that even though it was out of warranty, they still had parts available for it, and they chose to repair it at no charge.  I was very impressed, and I spend my "camera" dollars accordingly...

Agree.

Some years ago I had a similar problem. My iPod nano (cant remember which generation, but much bigger than todays) failed 6 or 7 months after the Apple warranty expired. I too it to the Apple service center here. The guy told me the repair would probably cost me more than a new one, but I should leave it there for an estimate. It was sent to the Appler repair center in Sao Paulo and I got a phone call 3 days later: Apple decided to give me a new one free of charge. I dont know why, maybe it was a known problem, ad I certainly did not expect that. I already assumed it was unrepairable and I should start looking for a new one. What I do know is that I am a happy customer and have been for 8 years now. Not a single customer support issue with Apple so far, even with lots of stuff from them. They reply complaints very fast, get things solved quickly and are very kind and polite. This is my experience, but YMMV

I'm not an Apple fanboy at all, just a happy customer.

Same here. I once had a MacBook Pro fail (display or GPU issue) *one day* after the warranty expired. I brought it to the store and a tech took it into the back; 10 minutes later he handed me a box containing a brand new unit. Not only that, but it was also the top spec, newer generation version (with a faster CPU, bigger SSD and double the ram).

They didn't have to do that as I was technically outside my warranty. They could have replaced the GPU or display in my existing one and charged me for it! But I was polite and didn't make any demands, so they took care of me.

That's why I've been an Apple customer for 12 years now.

Still that dont say anything about those 12000 people who was rejected a new unit! You could as well just be
very lucky that your Daniel Bogdanof type was there to ""take care of you" which would have meant a very
different thing if he had been a mafia associate! 

[MT]

Hi @MT,

I'm definitely the main person present on this forum, but we do a lot of repairs, cal, & servicing everyday without me having to intervene (thank goodness!).  I really like my job here at Keysight, so there are no plans there!

I agree that it's best if no one ever needs customer support, but as engineers we all know that's not a reality. Part of why I'm on this forum is to be a double check to make sure things don't slip through the cracks. This is a good example of a weird corner case that our normal processes won't necessarily catch so I can intervene and help out. It's also worth noting that our call center application engineers were also ready to jump in and help out, but since I'd already started working on it I told them I'd take care of it.

Hi Daniel!

Your doing a great job, no question about that, but the fact you are "indeed" needed is worrying! This im sure you understand is not personal
rather a poking finger at corporate managment, well above your head so to speak. The worrying issue are Keysight BR who's representative
NOW says (according to OP) their repair bill was hideous, yet they insisted. One of the reason i took the chance in flight to shamelessly promote:
GDS 2204E from GW INSTEK...!

Anyhow my recommendations to people who buys "expensive" TE the should take out an extended warranty.

[wraper]

Any fix that cost more than 20% of a new product is predatory, specially if is a project issue.

I don't receive free keisight instruments for review.

Really? So you insist that that 50+% of the product (acquisition board)replacement should cost 20% of the price? Or TV LCD panel.

[wraper]

I've got a Logitech trackball that must be coming up to 20 years old and it works fine.

Same here.

I've 2 of them, and all I've ever had to do is clean the ball area out when needed. 

That goes exclusively for their mouses and for some stupid reason, usually expensive ones. My friend already has 3x of same model (don't remember which exactly )mx series wireless mouses with the same left button issue.
http://forums.logitech.com/t5/Mice-and-Pointing-Devices/Performance-MX-mouse-double-clicking/td-p/591328

My MX 1100 is now doing that, perhaps 2 years old. This is my third Logitech Mouse to end up with the same problem, and it is pretty easy to find forum threads with the same problem. If it's out of warrenty, it's time to buy a new one. Logitech won't help. Get used to it.

I’ve had 4 MX mice with the exact same flaw and it's not me or the way I use the mouse or OS related, because my wife uses one on a Vista OS and I use one on a XP MCE, Win7 Pro, Ubuntu/Linux multi-boot OS and both of our mice are having the same problem, only this time my wife’s mouse went first and is worse, last time with the MX1000 mice mine was went first and was wrose.

[Tomorokoshi]

Regarding Logitech mice, I have one where the buttons failed very quickly. They would go between not clicking at all to getting multiple transitions. It was replaced with another one that developed the same symptoms.

I tracked it down to cheap switches with poor plating. I replaced them with an eSwitch equivalent and they've both been fine ever since.

They cheaped out and put poor-quality components in an otherwise well-built mouse. I will habitually blame accountants and management for that kind of direction. Where the switch is the primary interface between the user and the device, it would be irresponsible of them to not test it for millions of cycles.

Otherwise the vendor changed the process on the switch after it was tested.

[ebclr]

Some people biased , would love to pay 2000 USD to change a PLL or burn a new firmware and I believe that is reasonable to compare with a product damaged who remain after a atomic attack and need repair.

It's unacceptable to pay 2k for service a scope near the same price ,on a PLL defect , this is a real steal. Also they didn't supply parts for service.

20% is a very good reference , with cases that can pass this cost but must be clear exceptions not the rule


 

[GlowingGhoul]

Some people biased , would love to pay 2000 USD to change a PLL or burn a new firmware and I believe that is reasonable to compare with a product damaged who remain after a atomic attack and need repair.

It's unacceptable to pay 2k for service a scope near the same price ,on a PLL defect , this is a real steal. Also they didn't supply parts for service.

20% is a very good reference , with cases that can pass this cost but must be clear exceptions not the rule

Where do you come up with 20%? So repairs on a Rigol 1054z should be no more than $70???

[botcrusher]

I've used this mouse since 2001, and easily clicked it too many times to think.
It still works to this day.
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41186QZFSJL._SL1500_.jpg

[MT]

But I do want he whole world for free with my ultra top secret plan 

here screaming and insulting Keysight.
His demands are rude, irrational,  he keeps insulting Keysight and has engaged an attorney.

Explain how a company can be/feel insulted, and how that actually may look like?
Do companies have insult departments? Customer Insult Officer Daniel Bogdanoff...or something?

Im sure on planet Mars where you come from it is possible but you see this is planet Earth and here only presidents can get insulted.
You can even win 1000ukp writing the best Recep Tayyip Erdogan insult!
http://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/04/send-us-your-entries-for-our-president-erdogan-insulting-poetry-competition/
http://www.voltairenet.org/article191080.html

[GlowingGhoul]

But I do want he whole world for free with my ultra top secret plan 

here screaming and insulting Keysight.
His demands are rude, irrational,  he keeps insulting Keysight and has engaged an attorney.

Explain how a company can be/feel insulted, and how that actually may look like?
Do companies have insult departments? Customer Insult Officer Daniel Bogdanoff...or something?

Im sure on planet Mars where you come from it is possible but you see this is planet Earth and here only presidents can get insulted.
You can even win 1000ukp writing the best Recep Tayyip Erdogan insult!
http://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/04/send-us-your-entries-for-our-president-erdogan-insulting-poetry-competition/
http://www.voltairenet.org/article191080.html

A company's reputation can be damaged by malicious insults. This is Norwegian law:

§ 247. Any person who by word or deed behaves in a manner that is likely to harm
another person’s good name and reputation or to expose him to hatred, contempt,
or loss of the confidence necessary for his position or business, or who is accessory
thereto, shall be liable to fines or imprisonment for a term not exceeding one year. If
the defamation is committed in print or in broadcasting or otherwise under especially
aggravating circumstances, imprisonment for a term not exceeding two years may be
imposed.

[ebclr]

Law is not applicable for this , since everything is true fact on how company behave

[rch]

Law is not applicable for this , since everything is true fact on how company behave

I don't know about the Norwegian law, but for the Turkish law referred obliquely to above I don't think truth is any defence at all.
There may well be countries were even fair comment that damages a company could be penalised.  You simply can't generalise about that sort of law.

[Tomorokoshi]

A company's reputation can be damaged by malicious insults. This is Norwegian law:

§ 247. Any person who by word or deed behaves in a manner that is likely to harm
another person’s good name and reputation or to expose him to hatred, contempt,
or loss of the confidence necessary for his position or business, or who is accessory
thereto, shall be liable to fines or imprisonment for a term not exceeding one year. If
the defamation is committed in print or in broadcasting or otherwise under especially
aggravating circumstances, imprisonment for a term not exceeding two years may be
imposed.

Tough. Regarding that one, it has to be a "malicious" insult. Broadcasting experiences with poor design aren't malicious - that's simply another form of customer feedback.

If there is a design flaw that results in the customer paying egregiously for repair, even if it's some reasonable time out of the warranty period, then the company sure as better understand that in this day and age people will have the ability and capability to broadcast their experience using rather effective methods.

Something as sophisticated as that scope can easily have any number of software issues. They are actually expected, which is why the software can be upgraded in the field. Perhaps a combination of hardware design issues and software problems resulted in the trouble. That should not be a warranty / out of warranty issue. It's a design error that terminated proper operation of the equipment. It's no different than having a built-in self-destruct that destroys the equipment after some period of time, only in this case the action appears to be the result of an obscure problem.

Problem reports like this get recorded until eventually there is a pattern clear enough to be recognized, and resources are allocated to fix the problem.

[ebclr]

Checking deeper show why some guys didn't like Brazil,

http://www.timesofisrael.com/latvian-veterans-who-fought-alongside-nazis-hold-parade/

[steverino]

Checking deeper show why some guys didn't like Brazil,

http://www.timesofisrael.com/latvian-veterans-who-fought-alongside-nazis-hold-parade/

Hmm... Are you implying some posters have an anti Brazil bias?  Even worse, that they may harbor Nazi sympathies?  Not clear to me.

[georges80]

Dearie me - this has become one amazingly derailed thread at this point.

I'm amazed that anyone from Keysight would even want to be seen posting in it. Needs a good pruning  by a moderator or just move it to chat.

As an owner of a msox2024a I was interested in the details behind the scenes of how the firmware boot can fail and new firmware that tries to make the process resilient, but now it's a thread that's gone into bizarro land.

cheers,
george.

[steverino]

Dearie me - this has become one amazingly derailed thread at this point.

I'm amazed that anyone from Keysight would even want to be seen posting in it. Needs a good pruning  by a moderator or just move it to chat.

As an owner of a msox2024a I was interested in the details behind the scenes of how the firmware boot can fail and new firmware that tries to make the process resilient, but now it's a thread that's gone into bizarro land.

cheers,
george.

It's safe to say this thread was never on rail to begin with.  Look at the provocative title and the talk of attorneys, etc., etc..  Probably best to just start a new thread with a different title. The title as is is click bait. (is is?)

[georgd]

As an owner of an msox2024a I was interested in the details behind the scenes of how the firmware boot can fail and new firmware that tries to make the process resilient, but now it's a thread that's gone into bizarro land.

You are not alone.
Here are some links relevant to DSOX series memory organization, boot process etc.

The Keysight document about memory layout:
literature.cdn.keysight.com/litweb/pdf/5990-8184EN.pdf?id=2058171

Useful information how to read memory dump from DSOX2/3000 scopes:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/dsox2000-and-3000-series-licence-have-anyone-tried-to-hack-that-scope/msg274963/#msg274963

Lint to main flash memory chip manufacturer's site:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/dsox2000-and-3000-series-licence-have-anyone-tried-to-hack-that-scope/msg274963/#msg274963

The bootloader used in DSOX scopes:
http://www.denx.de/wiki/U-Boot

Cheers,
Georg