Microsoft to intentionally brick Windows 7/8 Update on Kaby Lake & Ryzen Systems

[Faith]

So, what gives? Microsoft have obviously learned absolutely nothing after the whole "Get Windows 10" fiasco in attempt to force users onto Windows 10.

I guess Microsoft admitting that it "went too far" with its push for Windows 10 was nothing but hot air.

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4012982/discusses-an-issue-in-which-you-receive-a-your-pc-uses-a-processor-tha

http://www.zdnet.com/article/microsoft-begins-blocking-updates-for-older-windows-versions-on-newer-hardware/

There is absolutely zero reason for this to happen. I am actually typing this post on a notebook with an Intel Kaby Lake i7-7700HQ processor; and it works. As a matter of fact, it works even better now with Windows 7 than it did with Windows 10. It boots faster, it feels a lot more responsive, I can actually install the drivers I want without Windows 10 pretending it knows better, I don't have to deal with ads in the Start Menu, Lock Screen, Windows Explorer, or anywhere else. And et cetera.

Oh, and my settings don't "automagically" reset back to Microsoft's own preferences after every other Windows Update.

Now yes, before anyone points it out; I am more than aware that Microsoft said some time ago that they will not be supporting Kaby Lake on anything other than Windows 10. There is however a very big difference between "not supporting an unsupported configuration" and "intentionally bricking an unsupported configuration (which Microsoft does not like)."

What a joke.

[grumpydoc]

Blocking updates is annoying and clearly done to try to force people to update but it is not quite the same as bricking the PC.

What are they doing for people with legacy setups running in VMs?

[madires]

Has nothing to do with learning. MS are doing this on purpose, they want to push Win10 on all windows PCs. I've heard that some companies are starting to think about moving away from Windows because of all the "great" features of Win10 that make it unusable.

[amspire]

The whole point of Windows 10 and the continual updates (rather then periodically releasing new windows version upgrades) is that Microsoft do not want to have to support different versions of Windows any more - they want one version of Windows and have everybody on the most recent update. That is their dream anyway. That is why when Windows 10 came out, they made it very clear that the Intel 6 series was only going to support pre-Windows 10 for about a year (which they extended) and I thought they said the 7 series would only be supported on Windows 10.

Windows 7 and server 2008 will expire in Jan 2020 - that millstone will be gone from Microsoft's neck. Windows 8.1 goes after another 3 years or so, and then they will be left with only Windows 10 for PC's, tablets, etc. From then on, everybody will be on one version of Windows (if they want support from Microsoft). It is expected they will drop the Windows 10 and just call it "Windows".

If you want to keep running Windows, this is the plan you are signing up to. Of you do not like it, run something else.

[rdl]

Amazing as it sounds, I have discovered that Windows 7 can run without updates. I've been running a copy of Windows 7 for nearly 6 months now that has never been updated. This is probably not a great idea for a machine that regularly needs to be used for internet browsing, but this computer is used solely for a specific type of application and nothing else. I use Linux when I need to run a web browser.

[Ampera]

As I have said many times before, the world would be a better place if Microsoft disappeared and we were forced to find a better option for operating systems like Linux where features and development can be a group effort, not just a company being a dick about things.

[SeanB]

Well, a monoculture is great, as those who had plantations of the Gros Michael, and the current farmers of the Cavendish. Likely in 20 years your children or grandchildren will ask what did they taste like, and you will struggle to do so, as they will be no longer extant, due to a fungal infection that is wiping them all out.

Only thing that will be left is some variety of plantain, that will not taste the same.

Or those who are growing monocultures of wheat, maize, tomato, carrot or potato, which are direly affected by various pests and infections, as they have so little genetic variation and there are many that kill them.

[rstofer]

I just skimmed the linked articles but I missed the part about 'bricking' a machine.  Sure, you don't get updates and there is a little annoying dialog but the machine still runs, doesn't it?  Did I miss something?  Just turn off auto-update and relax!

So, somebody bought the latest whiz-bang chip, presumably for some features, and now they expect Microsoft to go back to Win 7 and incorporate the changes?  Not just fixing problems, adding new code.  I can see where Microsoft wouldn't want to do that.

I suppose it could be a surprise to those who built their own systems but it's not like the word hasn't been out there for more than a year.  If you want to use the latest hardware, fine, but you have to use the latest software.  Seems reasonable to me!

All this crap about problems with Win10 is just nonsense. It works fine!  I have it on my Surface Book and another desktop machine.  It is faster to boot and equally as easy to use as Win7 which I have on my HP All-In-One.  It has been compatible with every application I have installed.

As to Linux, sure, I have it on 2 desktops and a laptop and I have been using it for a very long time.  There is no way in the world that Linux EVER replaces Windows.  Currently, it covers about 1.55% of all desktops against about 85% for Windows (all flavors):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_operating_systems

If, after 25 years, Linux hasn't penetrated more than a couple of percent, chances are it never will.  The users have spoken!

[Monkeh]

So, somebody bought the latest whiz-bang chip, presumably for some features, and now they expect Microsoft to go back to Win 7 and incorporate the changes?  Not just fixing problems, adding new code.  I can see where Microsoft wouldn't want to do that.

But we're not expecting that, we're expecting to get the same updates as everything else, which are 99.9999% CPU independent.

[MarkS]

But we're not expecting that, we're expecting to get the same updates as everything else, which are 99.9999% CPU independent.

This. I didn't build my computer with an operating system in mind. Granted, at the time, my plans was Windows 7 (pre-Windows 8 ), but it wasn't the driving factor in my parts choices. I don't "need" Windows. I can run Linux just as well if not better, and if I am truly crazy, turn it into a Hackintosh.

This is nothing more than Microsoft telling their customers "screw you" and forcing the latest version on everyone, no matter if it fits their needs.

[R005T3r]

Time to switch to Linux and forget windows. Once you get used to Linux, you can do more stuff in less time!

[MarkS]

Time to switch to Linux and forget windows. Once you get used to Linux, you can do more stuff in less time!

When you can do 100% of the necessary activities required for running a computer without even knowing that a thing called a "console" exists, as you can with Windows, I'll agree. Until then, Linux is a toy of power users and Windows haters.

[Nusa]

Just because the automatic windows update system is blocked, doesn't mean the updates are unavailable. There have always been legitimate ways to download update packages for off-line installation. All microsoft has done is make it annoying.

[Monkeh]

Just because the automatic windows update system is blocked, doesn't mean the updates are unavailable. There have always been legitimate ways to download update packages for off-line installation. All microsoft has done is make it annoying.

Because it wasn't annoying enough when they intentionally broke it so it can take hours.

Determining which updates are applicable and which aren't without the aid of Windows Update will be an utter nightmare.

[Nusa]

Time to switch to Linux and forget windows. Once you get used to Linux, you can do more stuff in less time!

When you can do 100% of the necessary activities required for running a computer without even knowing that a thing called a "console" exists, as you can with Windows, I'll agree. Until then, Linux is a toy of power users and Windows haters.

Actually, if you include the smartphone and embedded systems market, one could argue Linux has already won.  Android is built on Linux. That router you're using is probably running Linux. The list of smart devices running Linux is extensive.

[MagicSmoker]

...
All this crap about problems with Win10 is just nonsense. It works fine!  I have it on my Surface Book and another desktop machine.  It is faster to boot and equally as easy to use as Win7 which I have on my HP All-In-One.  It has been compatible with every application I have installed.

Older software that uses "safedisc" or similar type copy protection absolutely will not run on Windows 10 - the necessary driver file is blocked from running - but even the "nodisc" hacks* fail to work much of the time.


* - and not (just) because of the obligatory malware that usually comes with such.

[grumpydoc]

Time to switch to Linux and forget windows. Once you get used to Linux, you can do more stuff in less time!

When you can do 100% of the necessary activities required for running a computer without even knowing that a thing called a "console" exists, as you can with Windows, I'll agree. Until then, Linux is a toy of power users and Windows haters.

Actually, if you include the smartphone and embedded systems market, one could argue Linux has already won.  Android is built on Linux. That router you're using is probably running Linux. The list of smart devices running Linux is extensive.

I'm reading EEVblog on a Linux Desktop running Scientific Linux, connected via a Wireless AP running OpenWRT(Linux), I'm actually connected via Ethernet, not WiFi but use it for the VLAN switch, that goes to a PC Engines APU-C which I use as a router/firewall - again running Scientific Linux. From there the VDSL modem is a BT Openreach one running OpenWRT - I have some hacked ones running stock OpenWRT but the one downstairs is running the BT firmware.

The VPS I use for hosting and a few other bits and pieces runs CentOS

Is that enough Linux for you

I do have Windows machines for my own use and the family's. Mostly 7 but I have a Windows 10 laptop - the "I need to update NOW" mentality is too annoying which is why, for the moment, it will remain the only Windows 10 machine but otherwise it is fine. Actually thinking about it, I need to check on the phone home settings and make sure Microsoft haven't turned them on behind my back which is another annoyance with 10.

Increasingly we do not control the electronic gadgets that we possess. The current M$ move is part of that - I resist as much as I can.

[rdl]

Most of the things that most people do with a PC are done with the web browser. These people could easily be using Linux and barely tell a difference. I'd guess that most of the non-internet stuff they do is just movies, music and that sort of thing, which is also something that Linux handles very well. I'm pretty sure the only reason Windows still exists is because there's a profit focused company marketing it. I doubt the majority of people using Windows actually care what OS they use, or how it works and what it does for that matter, and are simply following the path of least resistance.

[H.O]

Crap. I haven't updated my computer (ie the hardware) since 2012 and had just now (like two hours ago) compiled a list of components for a new system, including an i5-7600K Kaby Lake. I already have a spare W7 license I was planning to use as I saw absolutely zero reasons to go W10 - untill I stumbled across this post that is. Hmmm, perhaps I'll just stick with this old system then...

[MK14]

Who cares 

I'm running DawnOS and it has its own cpu.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/dawn-operating-system/

It's running brilliantly and I can use Paint or Its poor playing Chess program, whenever I want.
True it takes ages to boot, is crazily slow and maybe won't ever run anything else and I keep on getting the "No cpu found error - try again in 10 years time" error message. 


Why can't Europe or a bunch of countries or even a bunch of companies get together and say this is a CRAZY OS situation, lets develop our own good one. E.g. Based on Linux, extended and made more user friendly, then go with it. Even if it cost a bit to buy e.g. £20 a time.

I think of Micro$oft as being a massive, conning money grabbing, monopolistic/partly-cheating company.

Or let the governments of the world, pass laws to fix the situation.

Computers are very critical to modern life and so should have a sensible operating system.

E.g. The Governments should BAN a computer coming with an insisted paid licence to Micro$oft, it is crazy. I.e. Micro$oft has their own rules and regulations about when/if they will allow a computer manufacturer to put windows on their computers. I.e. Very monopolistic.

tl;dr
Either governments or companies or users, need to band together and fix this problem.

[Ampera]

This is why we need to funnel more resources into Wine. I love Linux. I would LOVE to use it, but the thing stopping me from using it is the lack of software support. I have practically 0 support for a LOT of Autodesk stuff, and as a person who likes to play video games, I have less to pick from in that area too. Being a Java programmer isn't bad on Linux. You can still get most of the regular IDEs like Netbeans and Eclipse (Netbeans FTW).

And this is the song sung across the board. Linux is a GREAT operating system. It's infinitely configurable in every single possible way from UI to kernel, but it just doesn't have enough software support.

[Faith]

Crap. I haven't updated my computer (ie the hardware) since 2012 and had just now (like two hours ago) compiled a list of components for a new system, including an i5-7600K Kaby Lake. I already have a spare W7 license I was planning to use as I saw absolutely zero reasons to go W10 - untill I stumbled across this post that is. Hmmm, perhaps I'll just stick with this old system then...

Just buy a Skylake processor. Kaby Lake has pretty much zero IPC improvements over Skylake.

I'm actually in the middle of building a new SFF desktop as well, and I originally got myself an i7-7700K for it (only because the i7-6700K wasn't in stock at my favourite hardware shop during the time I purchased my motherboard and a few other bits and pieces). Now that it is back in stock however I'm going to swap the processor.

Just because the automatic windows update system is blocked, doesn't mean the updates are unavailable. There have always been legitimate ways to download update packages for off-line installation. All microsoft has done is make it annoying.

Oh, definitely. I maintain my own Windows 7 ISO with most important updates slipstreamed into it (along with USB3 and NVMe drivers to make OS installation more straightforward). Having said that; since Microsoft is going out of their way to make automatic updates a bigger pain in the ass for Windows 7 Kaby Lake users, what's to stop them from implementing CPUID checks directly into future updates themselves? Given Microsoft's recent behaviour I seriously wouldn't put it past them to do this.

I do already use Linux on my primary productivity system, but I do still maintain at least one Windows system for gaming and light browsing. Though I may just ditch the "browsing" bit in the future if security updates become too much of a chore.

[MarkS]

Actually, if you include the smartphone and embedded systems market, one could argue Linux has already won.  Android is built on Linux. That router you're using is probably running Linux. The list of smart devices running Linux is extensive.

I believe we are specifically talking about personal computers, i.e., desktops and laptops. Windows is too bulky and closed off for much embedded use.

I have yet to use a Linux distro that did not require console access and always without instructions. I have to search for the Windows console. The difference is that I do not need it for 99.999% of the tasks that I complete in Windows, and do not think for one moment that I am an average PC user. The only time I dig out the console is when I am trying to compile an open-source application that doesn't include Visual Studio project files.

[Monkeh]

I have yet to use a Linux distro that did not require console access

For what?

and always without instructions.

So how did you know you needed console access?

[jonovid]

I think of Micro$oft as being a massive, conning money grabbing, monopolistic/partly-cheating company.

sadly its all True.  the irony is it all started with a backlash against money grabbing, monopolistic BIG BLUE  IBM !
maybe its time for the next OS backlash or IT disruptor.