Can a Hobby Become a Business?

[zeke.]

hello all

I'm curious if there are people on the forum who turned their electronics hobby or some other hobby into a business. Anyone on hear have some stories to share? Just looking for some inspiration to start my own side gig or the reality of chasing your dreams lol

[CatalinaWOW]

There is another thread on this subject.  The answer is yes, but there is more worth reading.

[David Aurora]

Yep, it definitely can in my experience.

My story was that I was doing electronics as a hobby and kind of out of necessity too. I was a musician/music producer making fuck all money, and aside from always wishing I knew electronics I had also gotten sick of getting way overcharged by shit techs for shoddy work. After fixing some of my own gear and building some of my own designs I started doing the same for family/friends etc, though it was still just a hobby.

Then I changed cities with the intention of getting whatever temporary shitkicking job I could to pay the bills for a few months while I set up a new life and decided what to do next. After a few weeks of job hunting with no luck a friend of a friend here needed a bit of audio gear repaired, and when I did that he sent his bandmate in straight away with more gear (at this point I was working from the kitchen of my shitty little unit). When the phone kept ringing after they spread my name around I rented a tiny workshop a few streets away, then a bigger one, then a better one, and I'm about to come up to 7 years in business here.

So yeah, in my case it was a complete accident, but it worked out. I think the key part of it successfully going from hobby to business was that being a hobbyist allows you the luxury of obsessing. When you're not charging (or you're charging peanuts) you can spend 10 hours digging into an obscure fault or honing a particular skill purely for the learning experience (it gets reeeeeeally hard to do that when it's a business you're running). Those niche skills become major assets in business. For example, one thing I got pretty good at as a hobbyist was cleaning up hacky repairs other people had done- things like PCB track repair, identifying and correcting poor quality mod work, etc. I took a bunch of pride in not just half assing things like the techs around me seemed to be doing, and customers really seem to appreciate those efforts now that I do this professionally.

[zeke.]

Would you know the name of the thread?

[CatalinaWOW]

I used the forum search feature (upper right corner of the page) and found several mentions and short discussions of hobbies becoming professions, but did not find an entire thread on the subject.  Apparently I was remembering some other forum or media that I follow. 

From memory, here are some things to think about.

1.  Often a hobby is a vehicle to escape from the pressures of life.  Think about whether it has this purpose in your life.

2.  There is a risk of turning a hobby you enjoy into the mill stone around your neck.

3.  Think about the business prospects.  What are your financial goals from this business?  Spending money?  A full time living?  Wealth to retire early?   Is your goal realistic giving the market, the competition and the available profit?

4.  If you plan to keep doing the hobby aspect while adding a business aspect think about how you will legally and financially handle the situation.

5.  Can you maintain the dispassionate assessment of expenses, opportunity selection, pricing and all of the other things that a business requires when making decisions about an activity you love?   (Think about pilots running airlines).

[Kasper]

I once worked for a guy in his early 20s who was a hobbyist programmer and is now a successfull business owner.

He dropped out of 1st year comp sci, said it was too easy, then started a company in his parents' garage.  Got funding from a friend who wanted a modern (lower cost and portable) version of a piece of equipment he was using.  Joined a local incubator that connected him with angel investors and mentors.  Then hired a part time mechanical engineer and myself.  We made an MVP (minimum viable product).  He is still selling them now and every time we catch up, he tells me they are expanding.

[james_s]

It can, but beware turning your hobby into work. I did some EE as an actual paid job at one point, realized real quick that doing that was ruining my hobby and went back to software.

[unknownparticle]

I'll echo comments made by others here about the possible downside to turning a hobby into a business.  My experience wasn't in electronics but in automotive. Back in 1999 I discovered the Jap performance car world and bought a Mitsubishi Evo 6. I was blown away by it's performance and capability, it changed my life!  Before that I was all about German cars, just no awareness of the Jap stuff.  Soon I was modifying my Evo and the performance became even more incredible.  Got really into it, engine, suspension, brake and all sorts of mods.  At the time we had a family business in a fairly large industrial unit, so I set up a 2 post lift and workshop facilities so I could work on the Evo more easily.  Then, via conversations on the Evo forum a few other owners asked if i would fit parts to their cars for beer money. Very soon that mushroomed into lots of people asking me to do work as my reputation for quality, conscientious work spread.  Initially it was real fun, loads of people hanging out, bench racing about car stuff, and getting paid quite well, although it meant I had to work evenings and weekends to avoid conflict with the family business. Eventually though it became really hard work and I started to get 'difficult' customers who were very unpleasant to deal with.  I never had time to work on my own car and the workload was relentless, I started to enjoy it less and less.
I had to take the decision to either continue and turn it into a stand alone business with extra people etc, or let it go and only take work from a few carefully chosen customers, actually friends by then.
Thats what I did, and I'm glad I did.  The enjoyment of my own Evo returned and I only took the work I wanted to do, and on my terms.
Long time ago now, still have the Evo and a few very good friends to reminisce  with!
So, I would think carefully about hobbies as a business.

[Ice-Tea]

Well I was always a "electronics guy" proffesionally but over the years I mixed that a lot with the "for fun" part.

Back in the day, I was playing around a lot with laptops and started a bussiness buying/selling MXM graphics cards. For a while, I was pretty much the only party on the planet that would sell those cards to end users. But the supply deteriorated and that was pretty much it.

A little later I started doing freelance HW design on the side.

For that I needed some T&M gear so I did one or two auctions to get my hands on some second hand stuff to deck out my lab. That resulted in an office with way to much stock and the below eBay shop.

So, now I do freelance HW design, I play around with ungodly amounts of T&M gear and, for some reason, I teach. I honnestly couldn't tell you where the hobby stops and the work begins 

[josuah]

\\                                                                                             //
    Find what you like to do, and do it as much as possible.
                                                      --- Anonymous @JP

[jonpaul]

Bonjour a tous,

As a kid in NYC 1950s, I was fascinated by electronics, HV, neon, and scavenged old TVs, radios, phones.

By 1968 I was an EE, circuits, analog, ADC, audio, medical, avionics. No SW or digital!

Still have a home lab as an old retired guy....so I guess I prove that it is possible.

Jon

[zeke.]

Thank you all for sharing your stories.
I am a young EE who was never a book smart kid. I was always a handy person and thought electric motors were so cool, loved the technology behind electric drive systems and have a couple years of industry under my belt.
Tired of the cooperate world and looking for confidence to work on something you enjoy without all the cooperate BS.
Thank you all for the confidence boost, I have a lot to learn as an EE and a man....

[Smokey]

If turning your hobbies into a business is something you think sounds attractive, then something you should seriously consider doing is ...

... start approaching your hobbies as if they were already businesses. 

Always design as if you are going to make 10,000+ of the thing. (ie, only use parts you can actually buy in distribution, DFM, cost your BOM, etc).

Worst case is it takes a little longer to finish.  Making more than 1 of something in production is a shock that ruins many would be companies who failed to plan for that.  (just look at kickstarter for this carnage)

[SiliconWizard]

Something to consider: https://www.forbes.com/sites/work-in-progress/2010/09/21/bad-career-advice-do-what-you-love-and-youll-never-work-a-day/

Many of us here actually have EE as both a hobby and (at least part of) a job, but that requires discipline to make it in the long run.
Work is not play. And even if you start a business rather than become an employee, do not expect to be able to always work on exactly what you want. This isn't how business works.

[james_s]

Yes, exactly. As soon as something is paid work and has deadlines I can think of a million other projects I'd rather work on at any given time.

[josuah]

Work is not play.

This reminds me:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_work_and_no_play_makes_Jack_a_dull_boy

[Kujo]

Hi,

Bit late to this one but speaking from personal experience if you are going to have a crack at it go 100%.

I kept letting my paid job stop me being able to really build the brand and so my electronics hobby never got beyond hobby.

Can be done for sure but commit.

Kujo

[nigelwright7557]

I used to build amplifier as as hobby.
I decided to sell a few on ebay and it did ok.
Then the Chinese cheapo suppliers hit ebay and it all went wrong.
So  I stopped.

I got into PCB design software and sold a few copies then some kind gentlemen started pretty much giving his away on ebay and that ended that.

I decided to get away from pure software projects and got into model railway software and electronics.
Did ok but too many other people doing it to make much money.

I am semi retired no0w and continue with the model railway stuff but only part time.

The good thing about being employed is the regular income which is above or equal to minimum wage.
Working for myself I make nothing one day then maybe a little the next which is often well under minimum wage per hour.

Working for myself doesnt mean I am my own boss as the customers become my boss making demands.
Working for someone else I found I had to tolerate other workers, some of whom had hidden agenda's

[Smokey]

If turning your hobbies into a business is something you think sounds attractive, then something you should seriously consider doing is ...

... start approaching your hobbies as if they were already businesses. 

Always design as if you are going to make 10,000+ of the thing. (ie, only use parts you can actually buy in distribution, DFM, cost your BOM, etc).

Worst case is it takes a little longer to finish.  Making more than 1 of something in production is a shock that ruins many would be companies who failed to plan for that.  (just look at kickstarter for this carnage)

This is a terrible way to make art, if anyone was wondering.

art?  ....  what?!?

I'm not sure if you know where you are, but this is an electrical engineering forum.  I'm fairly confident the OP wasn't talking about trying to sell sculptures made of soldered together resistors in the form of little army men or something..

[vk6zgo]

Work is not play.

This reminds me:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_work_and_no_play_makes_Jack_a_dull_boy

All work on "Noh play" made Zeami Motokiyo a dull boy!

[rfclown]

Thank you all for sharing your stories.
I am a young EE who was never a book smart kid. I was always a handy person and thought electric motors were so cool, loved the technology behind electric drive systems and have a couple years of industry under my belt.
Tired of the cooperate world and looking for confidence to work on something you enjoy without all the cooperate BS.
Thank you all for the confidence boost, I have a lot to learn as an EE and a man....

I was once a young EE who was tired of what I was doing (after 1.5 years out of school). I was a book smart kid, but unfortunately had "the knack" so was destined to be an engineer for life (not an entrepreneur). The good thing about having an EE day job is that it pays well so you aren't suffering while pondering a different future than you have at the moment. Keep learning and dreaming. Things happen. I've since been at big and small companies. I've learned that I don't multitask well. I don't think I really want to be running my own thing. I like a steady day job. I've had good fortune and faired well. I'm sitting in a room at home with piles of test equipment (paid for by my side ventures) that would allow me to develop whatever I wanted (literally piles: in the room, in closets, in the garage). I get phone calls to do stuff (I'm old now and have experience), and I tell them that I'll only entertain the idea if it is something I can work on at night or on weekends, because I don't need more work. But I keep the options open and keep my name out there... because who knows what might present itself. If you have the knack, you'll always be learning, and maybe something special will come along that will click an change your trajectory. My hobby is my profession because electronics clicked with me at a young age and I thought, "that's what I want to do". I don't know that it was a choice for me.

[Smokey]

...
Always design as if you are going to make 10,000+ of the thing. (ie, only use parts you can actually buy in distribution, DFM, cost your BOM, etc).
...

This is a terrible way to make art, if anyone was wondering.

art?  ....  what?!?

I'm not sure if you know where you are, but this is an electrical engineering forum.  I'm fairly confident the OP wasn't talking about trying to sell sculptures made of soldered together resistors in the form of little army men or something..

Not looking to argue here, but I will say that we probably have different definitions of (and associations with) that word. It can be nearly impossible to do anything creatively fun while also dealing with today's supply chain.

That is true.  It certainly makes it harder and more frustrating.

[Smokey]

Thank you all for sharing your stories.
I am a young EE who was never a book smart kid. I was always a handy person and thought electric motors were so cool, loved the technology behind electric drive systems and have a couple years of industry under my belt.
Tired of the cooperate world and looking for confidence to work on something you enjoy without all the cooperate BS.
Thank you all for the confidence boost, I have a lot to learn as an EE and a man....

I was once a young EE who was tired of what I was doing (after 1.5 years out of school). I was a book smart kid, but unfortunately had "the knack" so was destined to be an engineer for life (not an entrepreneur). The good thing about having an EE day job is that it pays well so you aren't suffering while pondering a different future than you have at the moment. Keep learning and dreaming. Things happen. I've since been at big and small companies. I've learned that I don't multitask well. I don't think I really want to be running my own thing. I like a steady day job. I've had good fortune and faired well. I'm sitting in a room at home with piles of test equipment (paid for by my side ventures) that would allow me to develop whatever I wanted (literally piles: in the room, in closets, in the garage). I get phone calls to do stuff (I'm old now and have experience), and I tell them that I'll only entertain the idea if it is something I can work on at night or on weekends, because I don't need more work. But I keep the options open and keep my name out there... because who knows what might present itself. If you have the knack, you'll always be learning, and maybe something special will come along that will click an change your trajectory. My hobby is my profession because electronics clicked with me at a young age and I thought, "that's what I want to do". I don't know that it was a choice for me.

[Psi]

Yep a hobby can absolutely become a business, some good advice is:
- Keep doing your day job and build it in your spare time
- Try switching your day job to a 4 day week once you can afford it, if they will let you. That extra day is very useful.
- Always keep in mind and minimize how much manual processing work you need to perform to turn goods you source/get made into products that you can ship.
- Don't put off getting china to make small bits and pieces like wiring looms to save you time crimping them yourself. It usually ends up costing the same if you by lots of 200+ as china can get the parts cheaper and that compensates for the labor cost.
- Don't try to optimize your BOM cost to the nth degree from day 1, keep parts simple and easy to get and start selling your product. Once you are selling a good amount then optimize it.
- Sell for no less than 2.5x the cost it takes you to make it. If no one will buy it at this price then you need a different product.
- For any components that have long lead times, when you buy them and they arrive always put a percentage of them in a different box with a note "ORDER MORE NOW"  (alternatively you can use an inventory system but you will forget to order long lead time items unless you have a system to remind you)
- Avoid using ongoing subscription services, like...  Shopify is easy but it has a monthly cost, or you could make a simple HTML/PHP website and use paypal buy buttons or their cart system for free.
- Try avoid making products where the intended customers are the general public. Best to have customers who have a more specialized interest, with a brain.
- Check with your local city/govt about how to start a business and what are the traps. Sometimes you pay tax in advance, so the first year that this kicks in your paying tax twice, for the next year and the current year.  That may not apply to your country, but it's the sort of trap you want to know about before hand.
- Get a proper shipping account or atleast enquire and find the pricing. Its often way cheaper to send direct through DHL/Fedex/UPS instead of taking goods to your local post shop.  And DHL/Fedex will pickup packages.
- Don't lie on value on your export customs invoices for customers, You are taking all the risk and they are getting all the gain.
- Dont mess with mains voltages yourself for your product!!!, source a power brick with all the needed certification already done to ship with your product.

[Smokey]

What Psi said. 
I would add:
  - Figure out what regulatory hoops you need to jump through (FCC, UL, CE, ECU, etc) and given that cost do you even want to do it. (It gets expensive real quick)