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Electronics => PCB/EDA/CAD => KiCad => Topic started by: leniwiec on February 09, 2012, 08:12:50 pm

Title: Adding custom images into GEDA pcb program silkscreen layer
Post by: leniwiec on February 09, 2012, 08:12:50 pm
Hello Everybody!

If somebody have problem with adding images into silkscreen or any other layer in gEDA pcb, I describe my method, how I do it.
Maybe for someone this will be also handy ;-)

http://www.leniwiec.org/en/2012/02/09/adding-images-into-pcb-layout-with-geda-pcb-app/ (http://www.leniwiec.org/en/2012/02/09/adding-images-into-pcb-layout-with-geda-pcb-app/)

Btw. It is strange for me that guys from gEDA didn't add this feature by default, and we need to make this fancy operations to put image into our boards...

Cheers!
Title: Re: Adding custom images into GEDA pcb program silkscreen layer
Post by: benemorius on February 09, 2012, 10:29:08 pm
Some additional reference from the pstoedit manpage:

Code: [Select]
       [-ssp]
               simulate sub paths.  Several output formats don't support PostScript pathes containing sub pathes, i.e. pathes with inter?
              mediate  movetos. In the normal case, each subpath is treated as an independent path for such output formats. This can lead
              to bad looking results. The most common case where this happens is if you use the -dt option and show some text  with  let?
              ters  like e, o, or b, i.e. letter that have a "hole". When the -ssp option is set, pstoedit tries to eliminate these prob?
              lems. However, this option is CPU time intensive!
Code: [Select]
AVAILABLE FORMATS AND THEIR SPECIFIC OPTIONS
...
   pcb - pcb format
       See also: http://pcb.sourceforge.net and http://www.penguin.cz/~utx/pstoedit-pcb/

       [-grid missing arg name]
               attempt to snap relevant output to grid (mils) and put failed objects to a different layer

       [-snapdist missing arg name]
               grid snap distance ratio (0 < snapdist <= 0.5, default 0.1)

       [-tshiftx missing arg name]
               additional x shift measured in target units (mils)

       [-tshifty missing arg name]
               additional y shift measured in target units (mils)

       [-grid missing arg name]
               attempt to snap relevant output to grid (mils) and put failed objects to a different layer

       [-mm]
               Switch to metric units (mm)

       [-stdnames]
               use standard layer names instead of descriptive names

   pcbfill - pcb format with fills
       See also: http://pcb.sourceforge.net

       No driver specific options

Looking at my bash history, I recently had to use both of these options to get an OSHW logo with text to render properly: (I think the letters had some holes incorrectly filled until I added -ssp)
Code: [Select]
pstoedit -f pcbfill oshw-logo-200.pdf oshw-logo-200.pcb -ssp


Quote from: leniwiec on February 09, 2012, 08:12:50 pm
Btw. It is strange for me that guys from gEDA didn't add this feature by default, and we need to make this fancy operations to put image into our boards...

Such is the unfortunate nature of niche open source software. You say "fancy operations" and I don't disagree, but it could also be called "there's already a way to do that and it gets the job done". The software developers (who are actually EEs in this case) have more satisfying things to (like designing boards) do than polish up their tools which are presently getting the job done for them as-is.  An unfortunate consequence of this is that you almost have to be one of the developers in order to use the tools. That is, you pretty much have to be an EE and a linux software hacker to get the most out of the gEDA suite at present. Fortunately however, I think we can expect to see hoards of just such individuals flocking to join us in the near future thanks to the attractive forces of projects like Arduino and the maker movement in general. Bigger numbers is all we need. Currently, the number of people familiar with the gEDA codebases could probably all fit inside Dave's old lab, never mind those among them who are actually working on it with any regularity.
Title: Re: Adding custom images into GEDA pcb program silkscreen layer
Post by: leniwiec on February 10, 2012, 12:03:50 pm
Quote from: benemorius on February 09, 2012, 10:29:08 pm
Such is the unfortunate nature of niche open source software. You say "fancy operations" and I don't disagree, but it could also be called "there's already a way to do that and it gets the job done". The software developers (who are actually EEs in this case) have more satisfying things to (like designing boards) do than polish up their tools which are presently getting the job done for them as-is.  An unfortunate consequence of this is that you almost have to be one of the developers in order to use the tools. That is, you pretty much have to be an EE and a linux software hacker to get the most out of the gEDA suite at present. Fortunately however, I think we can expect to see hoards of just such individuals flocking to join us in the near future thanks to the attractive forces of projects like Arduino and the maker movement in general. Bigger numbers is all we need. Currently, the number of people familiar with the gEDA codebases could probably all fit inside Dave's old lab, never mind those among them who are actually working on it with any regularity.

I agree, we cannot require anything from open software, we take it 'as it is, without any guarantee'.
I must tell that I never interest what happens inside geda project, and now I see. I think, if I get some extra free time I will look inside geda, maybe some fork ? For me it is almost ideal, only few little changes and it will fit in 100% for me ;) 



Title: Re: Adding custom images into GEDA pcb program silkscreen layer
Post by: Bored@Work on February 10, 2012, 01:43:41 pm
Another thing with such niches is fragmentation. The niche might be really small, but there are often more than one project. In this case gEDA and KiCAD, and a few other even smaller projects. Each suffering from a lack of developers and other resources.

Imagine what could be done if gEDA and KiCAD would join forces. It isn't very likely to happen, it rarely happens with other fragmented free software projects. But it would be great.

And regarding gEDA, they do make strange project decisions. Some years ago they got some funding as part of Google's Summer of Code. Instead of using that to improve one of their flagship tools, gschem or PCB, because these tools need it, they did some Verilog stuff.

I don't believe hoards of developers will show up in the future. Especially not from the Arduino movement. For that a project needs to be approachable on multiple levels. Starting from being easy to just build from the existing code base, to being able to get small changes accepted into the project in reasonable time, to setting the right, attractive priorities, giveng developers a sens that their work matters.

And the Arduino guys? They want it to be easy and simple, with a lot of hand holding and back rubbing, without having to put in real hard work. And their knowledge in doing real programming ... I wouldn't count on them as a large future source of developers.
Title: Re: Adding custom images into GEDA pcb program silkscreen layer
Post by: benemorius on February 12, 2012, 12:16:51 am
Quote from: leniwiec on February 10, 2012, 12:03:50 pm
I think, if I get some extra free time I will look inside geda, maybe some fork ? For me it is almost ideal, only few little changes and it will fit in 100% for me ;)

Please please please do not fork. Your patches will be welcomed if they are sensible and do useful things. There is no resistance to adding features to gEDA. There is simply a lack of people sending in patches.

Quote from: BoredAtWork on February 10, 2012, 01:43:41 pm

I don't believe hoards of developers will show up in the future. Especially not from the Arduino movement. For that a project needs to be approachable on multiple levels. Starting from being easy to just build from the existing code base, to being able to get small changes accepted into the project in reasonable time, to setting the right, attractive priorities, giveng developers a sens that their work matters.

And the Arduino guys? They want it to be easy and simple, with a lot of hand holding and back rubbing, without having to put in real hard work. And their knowledge in doing real programming ... I wouldn't count on them as a large future source of developers.

I don't mean to suggest that all the arduino guys are going to become gEDA developers. What I mean is that there are some exciting projects out there in recent years and they're doing more to attract people to electronics than ever before. It's true that one of arduino's main attractions is that it allows you to dive right in and do useful things without getting your hands dirty. And no doubt many people are content to have accomplished their task and will prefer that their hands stay clean. But some of them, having gotten their feet wet by way of arduino, mbed, or just some neat little mod they saw on hackaday, will stick around to learn more. Obviously not all of them will be writing patches for gEDA, but some undoubtedly will. Really it's just the increased supply of opensource-minded people discovering the world of electronics that has me excited. I wish something like arduino had been around back when I was a boy. I could probably have been saved from 10 or more years of not knowing what I wanted to do with my life.