Author Topic: Copper zones won't fill  (Read 7290 times)

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Offline Simon

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Copper zones won't fill
« on: September 30, 2020, 02:46:35 pm »
First they were there, then i assigned them to a net, now I only see the outline. Yes I have pressed "B", yes I have clicked on the filled view mode, a zone on the front mask behaves, why do the copper zones do different?
 

Offline Simon

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Re: Copper zones won't fill
« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2020, 03:24:42 pm »
This now seems to affect the abilitf to via stitch as without the zones filling the via's have no net to lock onto as it's not there.
 

Offline NivagSwerdna

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Re: Copper zones won't fill
« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2020, 03:31:47 pm »
The first time I used a filled zone in KiCad they disappeared... in my case this was because the Cu layer where I was creating the fill was not visble.

By the time I figured that out I had many filled zones

 :)
 

Offline Simon

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Re: Copper zones won't fill
« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2020, 03:48:24 pm »
My layers are all visible, all 3 of them that have unpoured copper fills. If I make them have no net they pour, if I attach them to a net they vanish, just the outline remains.
 

Online thinkfat

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Re: Copper zones won't fill
« Reply #4 on: October 01, 2020, 06:23:37 am »
My layers are all visible, all 3 of them that have unpoured copper fills. If I make them have no net they pour, if I attach them to a net they vanish, just the outline remains.

IIRC, if you have a net that is not connected to any pad, the zone will not fill. Also if the zone is not connected to any pad.
Everybody likes gadgets. Until they try to make them.
 
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Offline Simon

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Re: Copper zones won't fill
« Reply #5 on: October 01, 2020, 06:48:30 am »
Yes I have them working now. But I am at a loss as to why there is this "rule". What I want to do is not insane from a manufacturing point of view, but apparently KiCad knows better than me.
 

Online thinkfat

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Re: Copper zones won't fill
« Reply #6 on: October 01, 2020, 07:42:59 am »
Well, at least that rule is somewhat sensible and you might be able to remember it.

At the very least it is more sensible than the completely obscure feature in pcbnew with selecting components: Did you know it makes a difference whether you open the selection box left-to-right vs. right-to-left? In the first case the selection includes only items within the box, in the second case it includes also items that intersect with the box.

WTF were they smoking???  :palm:
Everybody likes gadgets. Until they try to make them.
 
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Offline Simon

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Re: Copper zones won't fill
« Reply #7 on: October 01, 2020, 07:54:24 am »
Well, at least that rule is somewhat sensible and you might be able to remember it.

At the very least it is more sensible than the completely obscure feature in pcbnew with selecting components: Did you know it makes a difference whether you open the selection box left-to-right vs. right-to-left? In the first case the selection includes only items within the box, in the second case it includes also items that intersect with the box.

WTF were they smoking???  :palm:

No that rule on copper zones is barmy and is messing with my design.

The selection behavior you describe is very sensible and a historic feature in CAD packages like autocad. It makes it easier to selectively select things but not others. If you drag right you have to fully encompass the part, this means that you can pass over other items that you have to pass over but don't want but they won't be selected. If you drag left you can select in a smaller area avoiding surrounding parts or including them just by partially selecting them but avoiding encompassing parts you don't want. It's actually quite useful but you need to make it work for you.
 

Offline NivagSwerdna

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Re: Copper zones won't fill
« Reply #8 on: October 01, 2020, 09:19:18 am »
WTF were they smoking???  :palm:
I actually like that feature, let's you start or extend a selection with just the mouse.
 

Offline JackJones

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Re: Copper zones won't fill
« Reply #9 on: October 01, 2020, 09:24:20 am »
Did you know it makes a difference whether you open the selection box left-to-right vs. right-to-left? In the first case the selection includes only items within the box, in the second case it includes also items that intersect with the box.

WHAT!? Selecting things outside the box I draw has been annoying me for so long, and now you're telling me all I had to do was reverse my selection order?  :palm:
 

Offline Simon

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Re: Copper zones won't fill
« Reply #10 on: October 01, 2020, 10:01:29 am »
Yup, been an autocad feature for decades so logically carried over to other cad packages.
 

Offline Monkeh

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Re: Copper zones won't fill
« Reply #11 on: October 01, 2020, 03:08:39 pm »
No that rule on copper zones is barmy and is messing with my design.

For what reason would you want a copper pour which is assigned to a net but never connects to it?
 
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Offline Simon

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Re: Copper zones won't fill
« Reply #12 on: October 01, 2020, 03:15:37 pm »
No that rule on copper zones is barmy and is messing with my design.

For what reason would you want a copper pour which is assigned to a net but never connects to it?

Initially there was not even a net, but without a net you can't via stitch but then without parts you can't have a net. This layer is connected to the case chassis and shielding gaskets. Apparently this is a feature.
 

Online thinkfat

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Re: Copper zones won't fill
« Reply #13 on: October 01, 2020, 06:22:21 pm »
No that rule on copper zones is barmy and is messing with my design.

For what reason would you want a copper pour which is assigned to a net but never connects to it?

Initially there was not even a net, but without a net you can't via stitch but then without parts you can't have a net. This layer is connected to the case chassis and shielding gaskets. Apparently this is a feature.

Yeah, that's indeed a bit dumb. You'll have to provide a dummy part connected to a chassis-ground net so that the pours are filled. But once you remember it, it's easy enough to work around it.

The odd selection feature - that's completely obscure and entirely un-discoverable. I start dragging my selections from where it's convenient, i.e. where I have space on the board not covered by components. That might be right or left of the desired group. In fact this selection feature only makes sense if you checked "Prefer selection to dragging" in the Pcbnew preferences. If you didn't, for whatever reason - tough luck, the selection logic can not be changed.  :--
Everybody likes gadgets. Until they try to make them.
 

Offline Simon

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Re: Copper zones won't fill
« Reply #14 on: October 01, 2020, 06:24:55 pm »
The selection logic makes sense, as i said it's not a feature of KiCad but an industry standard that all CAD packages use.
 

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Re: Copper zones won't fill
« Reply #15 on: October 01, 2020, 07:13:33 pm »
The selection logic makes sense, as i said it's not a feature of KiCad but an industry standard that all CAD packages use.

It doesn't "make sense". If it made sense, it would be completely obvious how it works. Arguing that "all CAD packages do it like this" (a bold, highly disputable claim) does not create "sense".
Everybody likes gadgets. Until they try to make them.
 

Offline Simon

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Re: Copper zones won't fill
« Reply #16 on: October 01, 2020, 07:15:21 pm »
well it's undocumented like my issue was. but it's a feature I use all the time.
 

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Re: Copper zones won't fill
« Reply #17 on: October 01, 2020, 08:02:58 pm »
I guess I should have watched Chris Gammells Kicad 5.0 introduction videos with more than half an eye... I could have learned something new.

Still, I did a quick survey among some friends in the business:
- Eagle (up to version 7.7 at least): Nope. It may have changed now, because Autodesk.
- CircuitMaker: Nope
- Altium Designer: Nope
- Nemetschek (Architecture-CAD completely unknown to me): Nope
- EasyEDA: YES!

The survey additionally yielded two "WTF?" and one "I already hated KiCad anyway" response  :-DD
Everybody likes gadgets. Until they try to make them.
 

Offline Wolfram

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Re: Copper zones won't fill
« Reply #18 on: October 02, 2020, 11:45:43 am »
I guess I should have watched Chris Gammells Kicad 5.0 introduction videos with more than half an eye... I could have learned something new.

Still, I did a quick survey among some friends in the business:
- Eagle (up to version 7.7 at least): Nope. It may have changed now, because Autodesk.
- CircuitMaker: Nope
- Altium Designer: Nope
- Nemetschek (Architecture-CAD completely unknown to me): Nope
- EasyEDA: YES!

The survey additionally yielded two "WTF?" and one "I already hated KiCad anyway" response  :-DD

Altium Designer works like this as well, as demonstrated in this video:
 

Offline dunkemhigh

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Re: Copper zones won't fill
« Reply #19 on: October 05, 2020, 09:51:55 pm »
Quote
The odd selection feature - that's completely obscure and entirely un-discoverable.

Yes, you're right. But how could it be discoverable?

I'm a fan of the feature (in other applications), and in pretty much all of them I either stumbled across it or discovered it late (after seeing someone use it and having it explained). I presume that's because it's the kind of sub-feature that would quick-start tutorials tediously long if they got mentioned, never mind detailed. I think it was mentioned in one quick-start but, being a sub-feature detail, it just got lost in the noise of every other sub-feature detail bottlenecking my poor brain at the time.

So, how could it be discoverablel? In Altium it is one colour for right drag, another colour for left drag. Obvious once you know, but it's the first knowing, obviously. Having a pop-up ("Hey, did you know you can drag this the other way for a different effect? Try it now!") every time you do it wouldn't be a good idea. Maybe a tiny icon attached to the pointer as you drag, but a) tiny icons usually mean nothing at all because you can't figure out what they are, and b) how could you display what it is and what it could be in a tiny icon?

Sometimes things are difficult to do. Doesn't make them bad, just difficult.
 

Offline delfinom

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Re: Copper zones won't fill
« Reply #20 on: October 06, 2020, 12:40:49 am »
Still, I did a quick survey among some friends in the business:
- EasyEDA: YES!

I find it funny that people accept using a cloud service run out of China for their intellectual property....

/siderant
 

Offline Simon

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Re: Copper zones won't fill
« Reply #21 on: October 06, 2020, 06:08:53 am »
Why would you trust any cloud based system? the same can be said for circuit maker. I went banana's when I found that KiCad by default wanted to use online libraries that I had no control over. Fortunately it's now clearer, I don't know if it still does that but it was a piece of cake setting my libraries up properly this time.
 

Offline Watth

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Re: Copper zones won't fill
« Reply #22 on: December 29, 2021, 04:46:17 pm »
Well, at least that rule is somewhat sensible and you might be able to remember it.

At the very least it is more sensible than the completely obscure feature in pcbnew with selecting components: Did you know it makes a difference whether you open the selection box left-to-right vs. right-to-left? In the first case the selection includes only items within the box, in the second case it includes also items that intersect with the box.

WTF were they smoking???  :palm:
This kind of selection method is not used only by pcbnew, and is very helpful.
Because "Matth" was already taken.
 

Offline Bassman59

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Re: Copper zones won't fill
« Reply #23 on: December 29, 2021, 07:48:37 pm »
Well, at least that rule is somewhat sensible and you might be able to remember it.

At the very least it is more sensible than the completely obscure feature in pcbnew with selecting components: Did you know it makes a difference whether you open the selection box left-to-right vs. right-to-left? In the first case the selection includes only items within the box, in the second case it includes also items that intersect with the box.

WTF were they smoking???  :palm:
This kind of selection method is not used only by pcbnew, and is very helpful.

I did not realize that this was how the selection box thing worked ... I just tested it and it's actually very useful.
 

Offline Simon

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Re: Copper zones won't fill
« Reply #24 on: December 29, 2021, 10:37:54 pm »
the thread is over 1 year old and KiCad 6 is now out!
 


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