Author Topic: KiCad 6 is coming! (has arrived!!)  (Read 85453 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline nfmax

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1556
  • Country: gb
Re: KiCad 6 is coming!
« Reply #125 on: February 13, 2021, 09:08:09 am »
In any case, you're still selecting and moving parts, so whether you do it as a group and fiddle, or whether you do it one by one and fiddle, there's not much time difference in the end.

Pcbnew's shortcut 't' ("Get and Move Footprint) comes to mind...

My way of working is to have all the part footprints outside the board area, out of sight & off screen, then use t to select and place each. I usually keep the ratsnest hidden for initial placement. I also take some care to work out roughly where everything will go before I start placing, but I mainly only route analogue PCBs. For boards like these, placement is much the harder problem, routing is pretty easy, and I don't want any automation messing the placement up for me!
 

Offline twospoons

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 224
  • Country: nz
Re: KiCad 6 is coming!
« Reply #126 on: February 15, 2021, 01:49:58 am »
I still recall the bad old days (30 years ago) where importing a netlist resulted in a pile of footprints at (0,0). Having them spread on a grid is a vast improvement.
Schematic layout should be for readability, which is not necessarily the same as a functional board placement, especially for complex schematics. So initial placement based on schematic is not much of an advantage.
 

Offline gnuarm

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2218
  • Country: pr
Re: KiCad 6 is coming!
« Reply #127 on: February 15, 2021, 06:59:56 am »
Schematic layout should be for readability, which is not necessarily the same as a functional board placement, especially for complex schematics. So initial placement based on schematic is not much of an advantage.

That depends on how the schematic is done.  I find many plop down circuits in little pieces with scarce structure above that.  I prefer to show the flow, both electrical and functional, in the schematic.  This often translates well to a good layout. 
Rick C.  --  Puerto Rico is not a country... It's part of the USA
  - Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
  - Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
 

Offline twospoons

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 224
  • Country: nz
Re: KiCad 6 is coming!
« Reply #128 on: February 15, 2021, 08:33:52 am »

  I find many plop down circuits in little pieces with scarce structure above that.  I prefer to show the flow, both electrical and functional, in the schematic. 

Thats precisely what I mean by "readability" - nothing is worse that trying to follow a fragmented schematic connected by nothing but net tags.  I still find the board often does not look that much like the schematic, and that final placement isn't really assisted by component grouping when you can pick parts to move using designators, which is easier and faster than visual hunting.
 

Offline woofy

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 321
  • Country: gb
    • Woofys Place
Re: KiCad 6 is coming!
« Reply #129 on: February 15, 2021, 10:40:28 am »
In any case, you're still selecting and moving parts, so whether you do it as a group and fiddle, or whether you do it one by one and fiddle, there's not much time difference in the end.

Pcbnew's shortcut 't' ("Get and Move Footprint) comes to mind...

My way of working is to have all the part footprints outside the board area, out of sight & off screen, then use t to select and place each. I usually keep the ratsnest hidden for initial placement. I also take some care to work out roughly where everything will go before I start placing, but I mainly only route analogue PCBs. For boards like these, placement is much the harder problem, routing is pretty easy, and I don't want any automation messing the placement up for me!
I find the 't' command to be a bit tedious. I much prefer to have the schematic up on the second monitor. When I click a part on the schematic, it's highlighted on the layout and I can place it as required.
It's 2 clicks vs 5 clicks.

Offline KarelTopic starter

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2214
  • Country: 00
Re: KiCad 6 is coming!
« Reply #130 on: February 15, 2021, 11:43:21 am »
In any case, you're still selecting and moving parts, so whether you do it as a group and fiddle, or whether you do it one by one and fiddle, there's not much time difference in the end.

Pcbnew's shortcut 't' ("Get and Move Footprint) comes to mind...

My way of working is to have all the part footprints outside the board area, out of sight & off screen, then use t to select and place each. I usually keep the ratsnest hidden for initial placement. I also take some care to work out roughly where everything will go before I start placing, but I mainly only route analogue PCBs. For boards like these, placement is much the harder problem, routing is pretty easy, and I don't want any automation messing the placement up for me!
I find the 't' command to be a bit tedious. I much prefer to have the schematic up on the second monitor. When I click a part on the schematic, it's highlighted on the layout and I can place it as required.
It's 2 clicks vs 5 clicks.

But no mouseclicks! I prefer to type 't' and then type "c813" because typing something on a keyboard does not require to use the mouse (apart from placing the componnet obviously) and
no panning zooming. This avoids RSI.
The more you can do by typing instead of mouseclicks, the better! Eagle was superior in that. There was some kind of "console" in Eagle with a command history.
You typed "move c601"<enter> and the component was immediately attached to your mousecursor, ready for rotating/flipping/placing (like the 't" command in KiCad).
But, after that, you hit the "up-arrow" and the same command was there and you changed it quickly in c602 and hit enter again.
That workflow was superior to whatever I have seen in my life.
 

Offline thinkfat

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 2150
  • Country: de
  • This is just a hobby I spend too much time on.
    • Matthias' Hackerstübchen
Re: KiCad 6 is coming!
« Reply #131 on: February 15, 2021, 11:59:59 am »
If you were able to memorize the commands, sure. But some things were only available through this CLI. Some functions became totally obscure. I remember erasing all traces was something along "net ripup all". Not accessible otherwise.
Everybody likes gadgets. Until they try to make them.
 

Offline KarelTopic starter

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2214
  • Country: 00
Re: KiCad 6 is coming!
« Reply #132 on: February 15, 2021, 04:19:22 pm »
Imho, if pcb layout is part of your job & you have to layout a pcb often & you want to avoid RSI, memorizing the most used shortcuts is a must and well worth the energy invested.
Nice side effect, you will be faster.
 

Offline twospoons

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 224
  • Country: nz
Re: KiCad 6 is coming!
« Reply #133 on: February 15, 2021, 08:37:54 pm »
I think it was an early version of PADS where you could click the move button then there'd be a dialog box with a list of parts and a text box. You could put "R*" in the text box and sequentially place every part starting with "R" - no additional keys or mouse clicks needed. Or maybe that was Altium ? Not sure now.

Eagle's command line input is too verbose for me - I much prefer single key hotkeys. Though sequential hotkeys aren't too bad either (eg Altium).
 

Offline riyadh144

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 111
Re: KiCad 6 is coming!
« Reply #134 on: February 18, 2021, 06:20:15 am »
It is pads, honestly taht is one feature that I actually miss from pads. Other than that I love my KiCAD and wouldn't want to go back to that peace of shit software.
 

Offline nfmax

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1556
  • Country: gb
Re: KiCad 6 is coming!
« Reply #135 on: March 01, 2021, 09:02:31 am »
[…] especially now that 'schematicless' workflow will be supported […]

I recently ―less than a month ago― tried KiCAD for the first time (no nightly builds, but stable 5.1.9), coming from Eagle (and before of it, from OrCAD). Although I have found some oddities, it is really usable, and much more user friendly, and I decided to definitely switch to it. I'm not a heavy user of PCB design tools (I only design PCB as hobby, not work, and usually try to avoid it) so I'm not really aware of such schematicless workflow in KiCAD or in any other tool, but designing now some μstrip and GCPW RF circuits such approach seems quite desirable. Do you have more information about the way it is supported in KiCAD?

Thanks & regards.

Just last night some kind person posted a tutorial on schematicless design on the Kicad forum:

https://forum.kicad.info/t/board-layout-without-schematic/27992/4?u=maxwellhadley
 

Offline nigelwright7557

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 689
  • Country: gb
    • Electronic controls
Re: KiCad 6 is coming!
« Reply #136 on: March 02, 2021, 11:05:20 pm »
It is pads, honestly taht is one feature that I actually miss from pads. Other than that I love my KiCAD and wouldn't want to go back to that peace of shit software.

When comparing software you need to compare like with like.
Pads is paid for software.
But so is kicad, it was funded to the tune of $20,000 last year (quoted from their website)
I would suggest kicad compares to software around the £300 mark.
You pay for kicad whether you buy it or not through taxes via grants.

The only true free PCBCAD software I know is GNU.

Even the so called free PCBCAD software Design Spark is paid for by RS Components.

 

Offline nigelwright7557

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 689
  • Country: gb
    • Electronic controls
Re: KiCad 6 is coming!
« Reply #137 on: March 02, 2021, 11:07:56 pm »
I still recall the bad old days (30 years ago) where importing a netlist resulted in a pile of footprints at (0,0). Having them spread on a grid is a vast improvement.
Schematic layout should be for readability, which is not necessarily the same as a functional board placement, especially for complex schematics. So initial placement based on schematic is not much of an advantage.

kicad lines up components along top of pcb. Or at least my version does.
I prefer having pcb components in same layout as schematic so associated components are already next to each other.

 

Offline nigelwright7557

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 689
  • Country: gb
    • Electronic controls
Re: KiCad 6 is coming!
« Reply #138 on: March 02, 2021, 11:12:24 pm »
Some bugs found right after I downloaded the latest nightly PPA release:

1. Footprint editor will not display grid correctly.
2. Schematic library conversion gets the library lost.

I didn't test further before removing it. I'll wait for its final release.

Your a brave man saying that about kicad.
kicad is the best thing since sliced bread and has NO bugs or issues.

However when you consider they had $20,000 funding last year they should be doing a better job........
Shock horror ! no kicads not free, you pay for it through taxes and grants.





 

Offline JohnnyMalaria

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1154
  • Country: us
    • Enlighten Scientific LLC
Re: KiCad 6 is coming!
« Reply #139 on: March 02, 2021, 11:15:18 pm »
I still recall the bad old days (30 years ago) where importing a netlist resulted in a pile of footprints at (0,0). Having them spread on a grid is a vast improvement.
Schematic layout should be for readability, which is not necessarily the same as a functional board placement, especially for complex schematics. So initial placement based on schematic is not much of an advantage.
kicad lines up components along top of pcb. Or at least my version does.

Either upgrade or, if using the latest, RTFM.
 

Offline Bassman59

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2501
  • Country: us
  • Yes, I do this for a living
Re: KiCad 6 is coming!
« Reply #140 on: March 03, 2021, 04:34:25 am »
Some bugs found right after I downloaded the latest nightly PPA release:

1. Footprint editor will not display grid correctly.
2. Schematic library conversion gets the library lost.

I didn't test further before removing it. I'll wait for its final release.

Your a brave man saying that about kicad.
kicad is the best thing since sliced bread and has NO bugs or issues.

All due respect, but get off of this. He was running a nightly build of the development branch, so bugs are to be expected. The reason for the nightly builds is to get the latest code into the hands of anyone who wants to test the code.

We know you don't have anyone test your code. We know you don't do nightly releases of a development branch. We know you don't publish your source code, probably because it's embarrassingly shitty.

I notice that you ignored my post from last week about a bug I found that the developers fixed within two hours of my report.

Your fucking problem is that you think people say that "Kicad has no bugs or issues," when you are told repeatedly that yes there are bugs, yes there are issues, yes they get handled, and also your preference for how footprints are ordered upon import into the layout is not a bug.

Quote
However when you consider they had $20,000 funding last year they should be doing a better job........
Shock horror ! no kicads not free, you pay for it through taxes and grants.

Why do you keep harping on the fact that Kicad's developers get some money from CERN? Does it matter? Does it matter if Linux kernel developers get paid?

And honestly, if you took the stick out of your ass and actually did some work using Kicad 5.1.9, and then did another board using the 5.99 nightly, you'd know that there's a ton of improvements in all areas: in the user interface, in the libraries, in design rules, in routing, in board/design set-up, in all of it.

But you won't do that, because the parts aren't organized on initial import into the board the way you prefer.
 
The following users thanked this post: daqq, Jefes, I wanted a rude username, twospoons

Offline MadScientist

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 439
  • Country: 00
Re: KiCad 6 is coming!
« Reply #141 on: March 09, 2021, 12:24:56 pm »
Some bugs found right after I downloaded the latest nightly PPA release:

1. Footprint editor will not display grid correctly.
2. Schematic library conversion gets the library lost.

I didn't test further before removing it. I'll wait for its final release.

Your a brave man saying that about kicad.
kicad is the best thing since sliced bread and has NO bugs or issues.

However when you consider they had $20,000 funding last year they should be doing a better job........
Shock horror ! no kicads not free, you pay for it through taxes and grants.

I pay no extra money to use Kicad. That’s “free”  as far as I’m concerned
EE's: We use silicon to make things  smaller!
 

Offline phil from seattle

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1029
  • Country: us
Re: KiCad 6 is coming!
« Reply #142 on: March 09, 2021, 04:19:07 pm »
I pay no extra money to use Kicad. That’s “free”  as far as I’m concerned

Please don't feed the troll.
 
The following users thanked this post: Bassman59, arvidj, Warhawk, Jacon

Offline Miti

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1320
  • Country: ca
Re: KiCad 6 is coming!
« Reply #143 on: March 21, 2021, 05:34:35 pm »
I love Kicad and I appreciate and respect the effort that is put in it by the developers! I just want to ask if Kicad 6 will fix the ERC? It is pretty bad in Kicad 5.

Edit: Ok, I found out that my FPGA symbol have a lot of undefined pins, so in part the errors that I'm getting may be justified.
Edit2: My bad. I withdraw my statement.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2021, 09:59:18 pm by Miti »
Fear does not stop death, it stops life.
 

Offline vad

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 442
  • Country: us
Re: KiCad 6 is coming!
« Reply #144 on: March 25, 2021, 12:05:36 pm »
However when you consider they had $20,000 funding last year they should be doing a better job........
Shock horror ! no kicads not free, you pay for it through taxes and grants.
$20,000 funding in the last year. Wow. That must be a fortune for for-profit software company. Shock and horror for Altium. Software giants like Microsoft and Adobe are jealous.

... oh, wait a second. Altium’s revenue was US$189M in the same year. The “M” here stands for millions. That’s 4 orders of magnitude difference.

https://www.altium.com/resources/altium_announces_financial_results_for_the_full_year_to_30_june_2020.pdf
 

Offline voltsandjolts

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 2281
  • Country: gb
Re: KiCad 6 is coming!
« Reply #145 on: March 25, 2021, 01:38:26 pm »
However when you consider they had $20,000 funding last year they should be doing a better job........
Shock horror ! no kicads not free, you pay for it through taxes and grants.

I never wanted Tony Blair to take the UK to war in Iraq and Afghanistan, but I paid my share regardless. Welcome to society.
If only that GBP30B had gone to KiCAD instead.

...and v. sorry for feeding the troll.
 
The following users thanked this post: Warhawk

Offline PlainName

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 6796
  • Country: va
Re: KiCad 6 is coming!
« Reply #146 on: March 25, 2021, 04:07:45 pm »
Quote
If only that GBP30B had gone to KiCAD instead.

It would be spaffed up the wall now that we are out of the club and unable to benefit from it.
 

Offline wilfred

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1247
  • Country: au
Re: KiCad 6 is coming!
« Reply #147 on: May 27, 2021, 01:15:46 am »
I found this YT video by Robert Feranec where he interviews the Kicad project leader on the future course planned for Kicad. He seemed mostly interested in how future plans will negatively impact someone thinking of committing their project to Kicad. I did look a bit for previous posts linking this video but hopefully it interests someone here.

It is a long video so grab a coffee.

 

Offline mstevens

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 131
Re: KiCad 6 is coming!
« Reply #148 on: June 05, 2021, 01:44:31 pm »

Shock horror ! no kicads not free, you pay for it through taxes and grants.


I've watched you say this several times. By your argument nothing is free; after all you do pay taxes for the air you breath and the hair that grows on your body. Dude, get a life!
 

Offline phil from seattle

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1029
  • Country: us
Re: KiCad 6 is coming!
« Reply #149 on: June 05, 2021, 02:55:42 pm »
Please don't feed the Trolls.
 
The following users thanked this post: arvidj, Warhawk, nuclearcat, I wanted a rude username


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf