KiCad 6 is coming! (has arrived!!)

[phil from seattle]

While kicad is generally ok and has good libraries I did spot a huge clanger in their software.
If I try to layout a pcb it just puts the pcb parts in a line across the top of the pcb.
This is a real pain.
I want the parts laid out as they were in schematic with associated components next to each other !

With kicads way I have to move all the parts onto the pcb then work out what should be close to what !
What a useless pile of rubbish.
Still you pay your money (or not) and take your choice.

kicads way is maybe ok for half a dozen components but for something bigger just plain stupid.

Better in 6 but even in 5.x, it isn't that hard to do. I use a dual monitor set up so YMMV. If you don't have at least 2 monitors, you are missing out.

Open schema on one screen, PCB New on the other with an empty pcb.
Update PCB from schematic to get the components.
Turn off ratsnest (aka airwires) to make it clearer.
Click on a part in the schematic and it highlights in pcbnew, move it where you want it and repeat until every thing is in place.

I just did a 250 part board and took about 30 minutes to get the major groups set up.  Once I have that, I start juggling them to find the best fit. Schematic order isn't always that helpful, especially if you are using hierarchical sheets and labels.

It is a lot easier than Eagle.

[madires]

... or you can use the search function. Search for "C117" and you'll get your C117. Footprint auto-placement can be quite annoying when you have your own idea on how to place them. They get spread out all over the place, sometimes blocking the area where you want to place something else or they are at the wrong location. As more components you have as cluttered it becomes. However, auto-placement of a group of components would be helpful. Maybe something like: "auto-place the components of the power supply section here". That would give you a good starting point to place the components of that group. It also would follow the workflow of most users, since they work component by component, and not all components at once.

[Karel]

Even better:

Put the schematic on the first monitor and put the pcb layout on the second monitor.

In Pcbnew, press 't'. Enter "c413" and, voila, the component is immediately attached to your mouse cursor. No need to pan/zoom.
While it is attached to your mouse cursor, press 'r' to rotate 90 degrees and press 'f' to flip the compononent to the other side of the board.
At least this works in V5.

[janoc]

Even better:

Put the schematic on the first monitor and put the pcb layout on the second monitor.

In Pcbnew, press 't'. Enter "c413" and, voila, the component is immediately attached to your mouse cursor. No need to pan/zoom.
While it is attached to your mouse cursor, press 'r' to rotate 90 degrees and press 'f' to flip the compononent to the other side of the board.
At least this works in V5.

Don't bother arguing with Nigel. This thread should tell you everything you need about how a "proper" PCB tool is supposed to operate:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/buysellwanted/pcb-design-software-with-components-autoplacers/

The board examples made with it were telling too but sadly they don't seem to be available anymore.

[phil from seattle]

@Janoc, thanks for the link.  ugh.  I find "trash your competition" as the worst kind of marketing. And, not explaining that one is the author of a competing product is borderline unethical.

[janoc]

@Janoc, thanks for the link.  ugh.  I find "trash your competition" as the worst kind of marketing. And, not explaining that one is the author of a competing product is borderline unethical.

It's not even the trash talk (everyone seems to love to slag KiCAD) but Nigel has some very "special" ideas how modern software should work (like two pages of argument on why only idiots need an undo function), so getting into a heated debate with him is going to be a waste of time. Oh and calling free_electron an "amateur" after some constructive criticism of the software by him was priceless too. 

[Uky]

I grew up using Mentor BoardStation (Unix on SUN/Sparc) and have been using Expedition/VX and Cadence 15.xx to 17.40. I wonder why all low cost (or free) tools are so in love with bit-mapped graphics? KiCAD, which seems to be a nice free alternative is no exception. I have been poking around to see if there were any setting which would provide a "single-pixel-width" schematic editor with thinnest possible lines for symbols as well as connection lines. At least I found the "skeletal view" setting in the layout editor but the schematic editor seems to have no such feature. If wanting to make symbol lines thinner, if not mistaken I have to edit every symbol in the library...

[nfmax]

On high DPI displays, a single pixel wide line would be invisible. And a lot of us still have low DPI displays. You have to choose a line width somehow

[bson]

I can't think of anything in KiCad that's pixel based, except specifically images imported as graphics.  Everything else is vectored, based on actual dimensions.

What KiCad *could* use is dimensional calibration and the ability to display something at its actual size.  Including 3D renderings.  The only way to currently do that is to print at 1:1, save as a PDF, and open that in e.g. MacOS Preview.  That'll yield the exact size, just as if it were printed (which on even a cheap a laser printer will be quite accurate).

Also, like F360 it would be very useful to be able to import an image, calibrate for dimensions, and use as a backdrop (or in the case of F360, sketch canvas).  This would make it very easy to create an outline to fit a specific chassis or enclosure, and get mounting holes, tabs, and other mechanicals right - without leaving KiCad and creating a DXF in some other tool.

[nfmax]

Also, like F360 it would be very useful to be able to import an image, calibrate for dimensions, and use as a backdrop (or in the case of F360, sketch canvas).  This would make it very easy to create an outline to fit a specific chassis or enclosure, and get mounting holes, tabs, and other mechanicals right - without leaving KiCad and creating a DXF in some other tool.

Yes please! This would make copying an existing PCB from an image so much easier, especially now that 'schematicless' workflow will be supported. It needs a general affine transform of the backdrop, to cope with geometrical image distortion. Supporting front and back images would be handy, too

[Anders Petersson]

"In KiCad 6, copy and paste works across Pcbnew and Eeschema instances."

This is huge, guys.

[emece67]

.

[tbavcevic]

sorta long time eagle user, have been forcing myself to try kicad every major release and now and then, i want to use it and like it but it is still unfinished software, lots of bugs, lots of changes from version to version that seems to backfire as old bugs stay and new are introduced, waste of time since sometimes you loose your data, very unstable overall. tried pointing out bugs on their forum yet posts get removed, targeted moderation. they are using people as beta testers and i know it is open source but feels like at first sign of somewhat bug free release they will probably somehow try to sell it.

rant off: do anyone know how to setup kicad libraries on ubuntu 20.10, nothing works. thanks.

[Karel]

sorta long time eagle user, ...
... they are using people as beta testers.

Cadsoft Eagle was indeed very stable. The autodesk Eagle is terrible.
Nowadays all software uses their users as betatesters, commercially or not. Welcome in the age of agile programming.

... and i know it is open source but feels like at first sign of somewhat bug free release they will probably somehow try to sell it.

Everybody is allowed to sell open source (GPL) software.
What you can't do is sell GPL'ed software without the source code.
So, you will sell one copy and the buyer will distribute if for free to the whole world.
And no, you cannot magically change GPL'ed software into closed source.

[tbavcevic]

yes autodesk f*ked up eagle, thats why i am rooting for kicad.but they threatening me on official kicad forums that they will ban me for saying on their forums that damned thing dont work for me, well this is interesting, maybe they are for real forcing only positive feedback posts.

thing is, lets say eagle freezes up or i i have brownout and my pc restarts in middle of routing some pcb and i forgot to save for few hours, with eagle there are autosaves, happened many times that those saved me few hours of re-work, and i am used to that "protective" approach, safety first. with kicad everything ok, saved many times, open board next time there is no components?! or making some custom part waste whole morning on it, save it and tomorow its gone, like i cant understand is it that i am so dumb that i cant use it or is it realy not well designed.

[thinkfat]

If your posts to the KiCad forum were all like the post above, I need not ask why you were threatened with a lifelong ban.

[phil from seattle]

What part of Free don't you understand?

Yes, software should do auto saves to protect us boneheads that forget to.  Except, when auto save causes crashes. Sketchup had a notorious bug where autosave caused crashes. Took them a long time to issue a fix. Most people just turned it off. Problem solved, heh heh heh.

[MitjaN]

sorta long time eagle user, have been forcing myself to try kicad every major release and now and then, i want to use it and like it but it is still unfinished software, lots of bugs, lots of changes from version to version that seems to backfire as old bugs stay and new are introduced, waste of time since sometimes you loose your data, very unstable overall. tried pointing out bugs on their forum yet posts get removed, targeted moderation. they are using people as beta testers and i know it is open source but feels like at first sign of somewhat bug free release they will probably somehow try to sell it.

rant off: do anyone know how to setup kicad libraries on ubuntu 20.10, nothing works. thanks.

As you've already figured out, nothing works, therefore you'll not be able to setup Kicad libraries on ubuntu 20.10

[janoc]

sorta long time eagle user, ...
... they are using people as beta testers.

Cadsoft Eagle was indeed very stable. The autodesk Eagle is terrible.
Nowadays all software uses their users as betatesters, commercially or not. Welcome in the age of agile programming.

Now I am no fan of agile but this has nothing to do with agile programming.

If you have used any of Autodesk products (AutoCAD, Inventor, 3DS Max, Fusion360 ... maybe with an exception of Maya that still seems to be resisting the "autodeskization" somewhat), you would have known that this is their way of working. Even products that they have got by acquisitions (most of them, in fact - Maya, Max, Eagle, Revit ...) get "molded" into this mess over time.

The UIs are designed by monkeys, the code APIs are an inconsistent buggy mess, there are extremely weird design decisions in the APIs and UIs that don't make any sense except to that outsourced programmer somewhere in India that was hired to code it, etc.

And don't get me started on how slow, resource hungry and buggy their products are ...

With the Fusion360 suite it is even worse than usual because that is literally a test bed for features that will be rolled into their more expensive products like Inventor later. Which was ok while they weren't asking money for it but now you are literally paying to be a beta tester, with stuff that worked one week breaking horribly the week later.
 
Unfortunately, I have the "pleasure" to have to deal with their stuff on a regular basis because we need it at work.

[gnuarm]

If your posts to the KiCad forum were all like the post above, I need not ask why you were threatened with a lifelong ban.

Jeez, this place is starting to look like usenet!

 

[JohnnyMalaria]

yes autodesk f*ked up eagle, thats why i am rooting for kicad.but they threatening me on official kicad forums that they will ban me for saying on their forums that damned thing dont work for me, well this is interesting, maybe they are for real forcing only positive feedback posts.

thing is, lets say eagle freezes up or i i have brownout and my pc restarts in middle of routing some pcb and i forgot to save for few hours, with eagle there are autosaves, happened many times that those saved me few hours of re-work, and i am used to that "protective" approach, safety first. with kicad everything ok, saved many times, open board next time there is no components?! or making some custom part waste whole morning on it, save it and tomorow its gone, like i cant understand is it that i am so dumb that i cant use it or is it realy not well designed.

Well, let's think about it for a nanosecond...how's that their fault? Save your work frequently. 

[gnuarm]

yes autodesk f*ked up eagle, thats why i am rooting for kicad.but they threatening me on official kicad forums that they will ban me for saying on their forums that damned thing dont work for me, well this is interesting, maybe they are for real forcing only positive feedback posts.

thing is, lets say eagle freezes up or i i have brownout and my pc restarts in middle of routing some pcb and i forgot to save for few hours, with eagle there are autosaves, happened many times that those saved me few hours of re-work, and i am used to that "protective" approach, safety first. with kicad everything ok, saved many times, open board next time there is no components?! or making some custom part waste whole morning on it, save it and tomorow its gone, like i cant understand is it that i am so dumb that i cant use it or is it realy not well designed.

Well, let's think about it for a nanosecond...how's that their fault? Save your work frequently. 

Auto save is a very useful feature and only the poorest of software designs don't include it.  Blaming users for not being machines is a bit silly.  Yeah, I'm supposed to check the air in my tires every month, get a physical checkup every year and never, ever cross the beams.  But we are human, not machines and in particular, when performing work that requires intense focus on the not so trivial details find it hard to set a biological timer for 10 minutes without fail. 

Two things in particular make it hard to remember to save the work every few minutes.  One is that computers don't screw up as often as they used to providing less reinforcement for the frequent saves.  The other is that the vast majority of software these days provides auto saving making the need for manual saves much less and so hard to remember with these fewer and further between programs.

It just strikes me as absurd for blaming a user for the problems in software.   

[phil from seattle]

It just strikes me as absurd for blaming a user for the problems in software.   

Uh, so this is what you appear to be saying - if I know that a given program I am relying on doesn't autosave and I don't save as I am going along, it isn't my fault if it crashes and I lose my work. You don't see anything slightly absurd with that?

What ever happened to personal responsibility???

[gnuarm]

It just strikes me as absurd for blaming a user for the problems in software.   

Uh, so this is what you appear to be saying - if I know that a given program I am relying on doesn't autosave and I don't save as I am going along, it isn't my fault if it crashes and I lose my work. You don't see anything slightly absurd with that?

What ever happened to personal responsibility???

What ever happened to not putting works in other peoples' mouths? 

Should I invent something for how I interpret your post and question that?

[phil from seattle]

It just strikes me as absurd for blaming a user for the problems in software.   

Uh, so this is what you appear to be saying - if I know that a given program I am relying on doesn't autosave and I don't save as I am going along, it isn't my fault if it crashes and I lose my work. You don't see anything slightly absurd with that?

What ever happened to personal responsibility???

What ever happened to not putting works in other peoples' mouths? 

Should I invent something for how I interpret your post and question that?

OK, show me how I misinterpreted your comment.  I'm willing to learn.