Kicad 9.0.0 RC announced

[bson]

Nice to see a focus on new features, love it.

[Monkeh]

In the context of the message I replied to, by Monkeh, I don't think my reply was that much off.

Actually, I had completely forgotten all about kicad.info.

Yes, I did gloss over the distinction between the main site and the forum (actually I initially missed it as many have). Regardless, even if this were an officially operated forum, it's rather likely that the wheel wouldn't be reinvented. A basic website and a forum are quite different prospects.

[JMK]

For those who don't know:

Kicad has an official website: https://www.kicad.org/
Kicad also has a number of other websites in which the links may be found by opening the Kicad program → Help → About Kicad.

Kicad also has a Forum https://forum.kicad.info/. The forum uses the "off the shelf" program from https://discourse.org/

Each year, a Stable version of Kicad is released, along with a Development version of Kicad. The stable version is for general use.
The development version is for adding new features, as they are created, for the following year's stable release. The development version is available to anyone interested in trying out, giving opinions on, and finding bugs in, those new features. As the new features are added, they are announced on the Kicad forum in a thread titled (this release): https://forum.kicad.info/t/post-v8-new-features-and-development-news/48614.

When the new release becomes official (usually late Jan or early Feb.), a blog is usually posted on the Kicad.org website detailing the list of new features in that new release.

[phil from seattle]

I hope hope hope they will not break libraries for upgrading a design like every previous release. The amount of rework required to move a design to the next version makes me want to stick with one version and never upgrade. Unfortunately, that ship has sailed for me. Which also means I have to keep every version of KiCAD (5 and up) and libraries installed to manage older designs. Having multiple versions of my personal libraries is a pain to manage.

To be clear, the libraries aren't (usually) broken but there have always been multiple problems that need correcting. Footprint doesn't match DRC warning is one example moving from 7 to 8. Yes, I can fix it by updating footprint from library for each component but if it DRC'd just fine in 7, why should I have to touch it in 8 (with the same rules)?  It doesn't help when they keep playing around with the default DRC rules with each release. My 120 component board generated >400 warnings and errors when I moved it from 7 to 8. Fixing a few things and tweaking design rules got it down to like 50 but I usually burn about a day moving a given design to the next version. Way annoying when all I wanted to do was change a component footprint because the previous one is not in stock.  That is an incentive against having all my products on the current KiCAD version.

Despite my complaints, I think KiCAD is an awesome product and will continue to use it and even give them money on a regular basis.

[SiliconWizard]

The upgrade is always a bit of work yeah. But that's pretty much the same with most commercial EDA as well...

For now, I keep 3 versions of KiCad (6, 7, 8 ) and when 9 is out, that'll switch to 7, 8, 9. That's to potentially avoid some new bugs on existing projects, but also just to be able to share projects, as many people tend to stick to older versions, especially in the professional world.

[PlainName]

But that's pretty much the same with most commercial EDA as well...

Not found that with Altium, except when viewing a v22 project with v09 (but it just says it doesn't know about the new stuff and displays the board and schematic good enough anyway). Maybe I don't stress it enough

[JMK]

As per usual, Personal Libraries need to be re-installed individually through Preferences > Manage Symbol/Footprint Libraries. It took me about 20 min. to install my total of 52.
Kicad Libraries are installed along with the 9.0.0 program, again, as per usual, if you want them.

[phil from seattle]

But I have to keep multiple versions of my libraries. Generally I will add a new part to my current version so the libs get out of sync.  Not a huge problem but I might have to add the part to an older version at some later date.  My point was that every single upgrade has had library issues.

[SiliconWizard]

That'd be good if they improved the updating process for sure. And supporting libraries from different versions would also be good. That would require carefully updating the symbol & footprint definitions when they add features to KiCad, but that sounds doable. As long as they keep the same file format (which is S-expressions IIRC), they could just:

- Ignore unknown 'tags' when opening a newer version library with an older KiCad. Again, as long as they strive to keep backward compatibility with the existing tags.
- Read and re-write (when saving) unknown tags verbatim when opening and saving a library made with a newer version, in an older KiCad. So that the library wouldn't get chopped off newer info when saving it with an older KiCad.
- For that, any existing tag should be kept as is and not modified in any way in terms of syntax or functionality. If they add or change features, they should just create new tags for newer versions, and keep the old ones intact.

Just my 2 cents.

[Doctorandus_P]

As per usual, Personal Libraries need to be re-installed individually through Preferences > Manage Symbol/Footprint Libraries. It took me about 20 min. to install my total of 52.

There is a much quicker way for this. You can edit the sym-lib-table and fp-lib-table files directly with a text editor. If you do this with a source code merge program such as meldmerge.org then it is done within a minute (or two).

Also, these files are in KiCad's configuration directory (~/.config/kicad/8.0 on my linux box) Each mayor KiCad version has it's own directory (with the version number). You can make a copy of this whole directory to make a backup, and if you even delete the whole directory, not much harm is done because KiCad just assumes it is started for the first time, and it creates a new directory with it's default settings. I have a bunch of such renamed copies, as I have experimented a bit with weird settings in the past.

[shapirus]

I am thouroughly impressed.

Having had a long experience with FOSS in general, I must admit that KiCAD is nowadays a rare example of software that is not only of a good quality already, but is also being steadily developed to receive new useful features and is targeted at intelligent and proficient users, as opposed to the industry's general trend of removing features and overall simplification to benefit stupidity and ignorance.

When I first tried it (it was version 7 I believe), I did not like it and thought that it was yet another half-baked FOSS product of a very limited and inconsistent usability. I was wrong. It became better after I learned how to deal with its (and ngspice's) pecularities and certain rough corners, and on top of that it becomes very significantly better with each subsequent release.

I just hope that the team working on it stay on the course.

p.s. of course I will start using the 9.0 RC without waiting for its final release. There's no reason not to.

[shapirus]

That'd be good if they improved the updating process for sure. And supporting libraries from different versions would also be good. That would require carefully updating the symbol & footprint definitions when they add features to KiCad, but that sounds doable. As long as they keep the same file format (which is S-expressions IIRC), they could just:

- Ignore unknown 'tags' when opening a newer version library with an older KiCad. Again, as long as they strive to keep backward compatibility with the existing tags.
- Read and re-write (when saving) unknown tags verbatim when opening and saving a library made with a newer version, in an older KiCad. So that the library wouldn't get chopped off newer info when saving it with an older KiCad.
- For that, any existing tag should be kept as is and not modified in any way in terms of syntax or functionality. If they add or change features, they should just create new tags for newer versions, and keep the old ones intact.

Just my 2 cents.

Have you considered posting this as a feature request in their issue tracker, if a similar one doesn't exist yet? That'll make it more likely to get attention and maybe someone's actual coding hours than a post here on the forum.

[tooki]

But that's pretty much the same with most commercial EDA as well...

Not found that with Altium, except when viewing a v22 project with v09 (but it just says it doesn't know about the new stuff and displays the board and schematic good enough anyway). Maybe I don't stress it enough

Altium is quite unusual in its file format being forward- and backward-compatible. I have a background in the software industry (despite not being a programmer myself, ironically) so I understand why most software is incapable of opening files from later versions than itself. It takes a care and effort to design the software architecture (and consequently the file format, which usually mirrors the software’s object model fairly tightly) such as to be flexible in the file format.

(Other than Altium, the only common “complex” document formats that work this way are basically MS Office and LibreOffice and similar.)

[PlainName]

I understand why most software is incapable of opening files from later versions than itself

That's kind of forgivable, but it's not what's being discussed here, which is later software not being compatible with the previous stuff (or even having an up-converter).

[tooki]

I understand why most software is incapable of opening files from later versions than itself

That's kind of forgivable, but it's not what's being discussed here, which is later software not being compatible with the previous stuff (or even having an up-converter).

Ahem:

Altium is quite unusual in its file format being forward- and backward-compatible. …

It is extremely odd that KiCad has issues when upgrading libraries, but it sounds like it’s not so much the file format as it is the upgrade process in their code, which omits certain steps needed to “synchronize” the state of everything in the project.

[cathodeninetails]

FYI, KiCad is always compatible with older files (project, schematic, PCB, symbols and footprints). If it's not, that is a bug. Libraries made in version 5 and earlier will need to be "migrated" to the current version to upgrade them so they can be edited, but they can be read even without that. Libraries from version 6, 7 and 8 can be used just as the stock libraries. If you changed and save out a v6/7/8 file, it'll be upgraded to the v9 format.

[VEGETA]

well, having to use v9 files only in v9 seems a downside to some people but not for me. it is a free open source software, upgrading is free and no reason to never upgrade.

I was hoping at some point the upgrade is done within the software itself like "check for updates" or so. also, i previously talked about the possibility of making it more of an all-in-one integrated package not like the current status of different software packages in one (eschema, pcbnew, etc..). this is a good modernization which is well worth the effort but devs are the ones with final word.

i used v6 onwards, and gotta say it is really fantastic how such a powerful tool exists as a free open source tool! it is a matter of time until it actually gets all features which are exclusive to very expensive packages.

[cathodeninetails]

I was hoping at some point the upgrade is done within the software itself like "check for updates" or so.

There is an integrated update check on Windows and Mac. Linux systems should get updates via their package managers.

i previously talked about the possibility of making it more of an all-in-one integrated package

Moving to a tabbed/multi-window-capable multi-document interface is tentatively on the v10 roadmap: https://youtu.be/BP8VD9FviWk?t=1978

[PlainName]

and no reason to never upgrade

So you're already on Windows 11 and will happily move to Windows 12 however Microsoft decide to screw it up and/or infest it with cloud reliance?

[delfinom]

I was hoping at some point the upgrade is done within the software itself like "check for updates" or so. also, i previously talked about the possibility of making it more of an all-in-one integrated package not like the current status of different software packages in one (eschema, pcbnew, etc..). this is a good modernization which is well worth the effort but devs are the ones with final word.

They aren't different software packages, they share the same DLLs and code. The separate executables are "standalone mode" shims. They barely contain any code and simply load the tools from the DLLs. 
If you run "kicad.exe", the separate executables are not used at all.

[SiliconWizard]

I was hoping at some point the upgrade is done within the software itself like "check for updates" or so. also, i previously talked about the possibility of making it more of an all-in-one integrated package not like the current status of different software packages in one (eschema, pcbnew, etc..). this is a good modernization which is well worth the effort but devs are the ones with final word.

They aren't different software packages, they share the same DLLs and code. The separate executables are "standalone mode" shims. They barely contain any code and simply load the tools from the DLLs. 
If you run "kicad.exe", the separate executables are not used at all.

Yes. And I don't mind the separate applications, although that may look "outdated" at first sight.

The "modern" approach would be to integrate all in a single application, but then run each part in a different process (like most "modern" apps now do) and the ability to detach some parts in separate windows  - to use a multi-monitor setup for instance. So, in the end, the exact same thing except that it would take unnecessary development work and introduce new bugs.

[VEGETA]

I was hoping at some point the upgrade is done within the software itself like "check for updates" or so.

There is an integrated update check on Windows and Mac. Linux systems should get updates via their package managers.

i previously talked about the possibility of making it more of an all-in-one integrated package

Moving to a tabbed/multi-window-capable multi-document interface is tentatively on the v10 roadmap: https://youtu.be/BP8VD9FviWk?t=1978

i meant to update the software with a button choice instead of uninstalling + installing.

it is nice to see the all-in-one package feature!! really modernizing the software and will be tempting to newer audience in all engineering spheres.

i believe it will be one project file then internally you can check multiple files like schematic and pcb... or keep separate files but use one software. anything is better than current situation.

maybe in 2026 this will happen since v9 is still not officially announced.

[delfinom]

The "modern" approach would be to integrate all in a single application, but then run each part in a different process (like most "modern" apps now do) and the ability to detach some parts in separate windows  - to use a multi-monitor setup for instance. So, in the end, the exact same thing except that it would take unnecessary development work and introduce new bugs.

That isn't the modern approach. That's just a web browser. No other CAD suite does this.

[djsb]

Version 9.00 release candidate 2 announced

https://forum.kicad.info/t/stable-version-9-0-0-rc2-available/57708