Author Topic: KICAD and dual monitors  (Read 7036 times)

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Offline PKTKS

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Re: KICAD and dual monitors
« Reply #25 on: July 04, 2021, 06:33:58 pm »
You need to be specific

My system works as explained
While other speculations i can
only provide fixes or directions
IF you be more clear

BTW if you wonder swig bindings to python i suggest GNURadio wich makes extensive use of swig to python.

Paul
« Last Edit: July 04, 2021, 06:56:03 pm by PKTKS »
 

Offline bson

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Re: KICAD and dual monitors
« Reply #26 on: July 04, 2021, 07:23:07 pm »
Just clone it from git@gitlab.com:kicad/code/kicad.git and see for yourself.
 

Offline PKTKS

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Re: KICAD and dual monitors
« Reply #27 on: July 04, 2021, 07:26:41 pm »
I have  exactly 8 working versions of KiCAD on my primary workstation

What exactly these vague comment i should look for? Be specific

Paul
 

Online Bassman59

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Re: KICAD and dual monitors
« Reply #28 on: July 04, 2021, 11:08:51 pm »
Formerly KiCAD is wrapped around wxGtk

Formally (not formerly, as this information is current) Kicad uses the wxWidgets library to allow developers to write cross-platform applications without having to get too involved in learning the underlying system.

Quote
Which happens to be a C++ toolkit

Correct!

Quote
I think it is great considering the status of Qt after being bought

This discussion isn't about the choice of cross-platform application library. Other than to say that the Kicad developers chose wx, and migrating to anything else will be painful.

Quote
If  you have not seen it yet there is an alternate bundle to wxGtk with an embed Python interpreter called wxPython
https://www.wxpython.org/

<PS> Specifically https://docs.wxpython.org/wx.glcanvas.1moduleindex.html
where an enthusiastic folk can render any sort of view in 2 minute pythonish

And ... Kicad already uses wxPython -- it's how Kicad presents the python scripting console!

Quote
I am not a python fan much because I deal with PERL for more than 20y+..
so last time I checked (what they call now legacy wxPython) you could
just as in PERL  object oriented wrappers (auto made with higher order converters
e.g. formerly http://www.swig.org/) just interface any sort of API .
Done that in PERL Gtk and that is a very very powerful
method to achieve such short goals on large projects..
<END PS>

perl? That's hilarious.

 

Online Bassman59

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Re: KICAD and dual monitors
« Reply #29 on: July 04, 2021, 11:14:32 pm »
Well if anyone for some reason
Can not see how you open a secondary
view of a large pcb using that method..

Well that is beyond what i can reason
Method is explained to the best i can
with my own setup and extensive considerations...

Paul

I don't think you have much to contribute to the OP's question.
But I do enjoy your Haikus.  ::)

Not sure if I understand ...

What?  sitting and wait some Python sweet heart craft a thing
that attach the KiCAD API to display a secondary window?

Wait even longer so the underlay toolkit will care about Xinerama
support ( instead of tinkering that wayland confused side track ) ?

What the reason to wait .. I had that dual display session working
on the bench w/2 SVGA monitors..  used to be simpler because
the setup required less GPU vendor support and you could mix
a dozen different brands SiS, ATI, S3, Matrox, Trident...

they all died and we are doomed to 2 may be 3 gpus of choice.
Chances are that mixing their crappy drivers won't even boot.

So dual display - being Xinerama or not - are still feasible
with some careful considerations as explained.

If the OP will sit and wait some Python thing or some hacks
on the toolkit... well I can not argue.

Dude, you still haven't figured out that the underlying issue is that Kicad displays the layout in only one view. If someone stepped up and proposed how to have the application display two separate views of the layout, then it can be implemented. It's not a python thing at all. It requires support at the toolkit level.

I haven't seen an application that uses X Windows in ages. It's a dead technology. Nobody cares.

Quote
I have mine already working

Wait, you have Kicad's PCB editor showing two views of the same layout, in two windows? Cool! SHOW US.
 

Offline dunkemhigh

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Re: KICAD and dual monitors
« Reply #30 on: July 05, 2021, 07:01:16 am »
Quote
I haven't seen an application that uses X Windows in ages. It's a dead technology.

https://sourceforge.net/projects/vcxsrv/

Used it yesterday to get a Linux Mint app running on a Windows 7 desktop. Depending on situation it can be better than a RDP view to a VM or actual remote machine.
 

Offline PKTKS

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Re: KICAD and dual monitors
« Reply #31 on: July 05, 2021, 01:45:19 pm »
Formerly KiCAD is wrapped around wxGtk

Formally (not formerly, as this information is current)

First let me thank you very much for pointing the mistake
Fixed noted and hopefully not forgotten


 Kicad already uses wxPython -- it's how Kicad presents the python scripting console!

They do not use the  full version of it .
 They use just a tiny part of it to have that functionality

perl? That's hilarious.

Well . once managed PERL allowed me to write KiCAD converters
parsers and other stuff which  includes managing clever sessions
like the one I am  posting.

Dude, you still haven't figured out that the underlying issue is that Kicad displays the layout in only one view. If someone stepped up and proposed how to have the application display two separate views of the layout, then it can be implemented. It's not a python thing at all. It requires support at the toolkit level.

I haven't seen an application that uses X Windows in ages. It's a dead technology. Nobody cares

You just can not be more wrong about that.

As you requested I will satisfy you showing you NOT THE WAY I DO IT
and the way I suggested the OP to do it.

Note that this is to satisfy YOU....  you  just can not be more wrong about ...
The real way I do this is already explained.


To satisfy your curiosity and misunderstanding how Xwindows is nothing
but obsolete.. I am posting a screenshot of:
- A BASIC PROJECT CRAFTED in 3 minutes... just for this show off
- USING THE SAME location /tmp  in the same workstation.and same user !!!
- USING THE SAME VERSION OF KiCAD  running multiple times..

WTF how ?  using that hilarious PERL thing with that obsolete full
bleeding edge X11 workstation... WTF X11 XWindows... yep just that..

Attached as well the proper bindings to WX to allow X11 to perform
such  amazing things...  also a proper  listing of **ALL** versions of Wx
in my primary workstations so I can run 8 versions of KiCAD against them

Cheers. And  have fun seeing how crippled these PCs that ditched X11 are...
Nothing but a single crippled display without  proper workstation functionality...

Paul

« Last Edit: July 05, 2021, 01:58:16 pm by PKTKS »
 

Offline metro

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Re: KICAD and dual monitors
« Reply #32 on: July 06, 2021, 06:28:24 pm »
Folks, I don't think any of this is helpful, you are completely off topic...

Maybe it would be good if a mod could lock this thread?

Short answer: You can currently not open two independent views in KiCAD, we all agree it would be great.
Clumsy workaround: open the same project in two instances of KiCAD, turn off autosave, and take care to do a save+reload cycle every time you are making a change to the design. Not nice, but if you really only need two independent views or zoom-levels of the same things, this works. If all you do is reviewing a design, not editing it, you are probably fine.

Sorry if this is not the kind of answer you would like, but hey, you can always contribute to PCBnew and add a 2-window/2-viewport feature...
 
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Offline bson

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Re: KICAD and dual monitors
« Reply #33 on: July 06, 2021, 09:49:50 pm »
Clumsy workaround: open the same project in two instances of KiCAD, turn off autosave, and take care to do a save+reload cycle every time you are making a change to the design. Not nice, but if you really only need two independent views or zoom-levels of the same things, this works. If all you do is reviewing a design, not editing it, you are probably fine.
This would kind of defeat the purpose of having it in the first place.  To me the whole idea would be to see changes on two different scales while doing things like routing and push-and-shove, or netlist selection.  One close-in where the trace head is, where I'm adding segments, and another for the full board, to see where I'm going.

Another useful feature would be to be able to view to git commits/tags/branches side by side.  And have KiCad highlight differences.  Even if one view were a readonly detached head and I'm only working on a head.  (It could checkout the commit to a temporary directory just for viewing and visual diffing.)

Same with schematics.

But for me I think a higher priority for now is to be able to have multiple PCBs (not unlike multiple schematics) in one project.  Then this could be used to implement versioning, diffing, etc.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2021, 09:54:48 pm by bson »
 

Offline PKTKS

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Re: KICAD and dual monitors
« Reply #34 on: July 07, 2021, 09:48:56 am »
Folks, I don't think any of this is helpful, you are completely off topic...

Maybe it would be good if a mod could lock this thread?

Short answer: You can currently not open two independent views in KiCAD, we all agree it would be great.
Clumsy workaround: open the same project in two instances of KiCAD, turn off autosave, and take care to do a save+reload cycle every time you are making a change to the design. Not nice, but if you really only need two independent views or zoom-levels of the same things, this works. If all you do is reviewing a design, not editing it, you are probably fine.

Sorry if this is not the kind of answer you would like, but hey, you can always contribute to PCBnew and add a 2-window/2-viewport feature...

just for the record as it seems some folks still can not get it.

The session posted *IS NOT** a clumsy workaround

It is a real thing where I can MODIFY BOTH FILES INDEPENDENTLY
even saving them without any sort of trouble.. yes it is like that...

The kind of setup used is not for newbies and explaining that
would be off topic...

I am  offering a solution to the OP instead of whining crying
for some type of very extensive modification

Solution which I consider very handy to the OP

2 cents of real solution to the OP instead of crying features
that will not happen any time soon

Paul
« Last Edit: July 07, 2021, 09:50:43 am by PKTKS »
 

Online Monkeh

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Re: KICAD and dual monitors
« Reply #35 on: July 07, 2021, 01:48:21 pm »
You haven't yet offered a solution - only bragged about having one and gone on long pointless rants about 'losing X11' when most everyone still uses X, complete with misinformed unrelated rants about systemd being 'designed for autologin'.
 

Offline PKTKS

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Re: KICAD and dual monitors
« Reply #36 on: July 07, 2021, 02:02:52 pm »
You haven't yet offered a solution - only bragged about having one and gone on long pointless rants about 'losing X11' when most everyone still uses X, complete with misinformed unrelated rants about systemd being 'designed for autologin'.

I was missing you..  ^-^  your always inspiring insults..

I will tell slowly again:
- most distros (if not all) based on systemd are made w/autologin
 (which can be disabled with some tinkering...) single user display
- they are not obviously but with some effort easily perceived as
  biased to offer a compatible layer based on wayland to WSL

Removing what they call legacy, deprecated tech. old unmaintainable
XOrg X11 .. call whatever you like... but removing it is essential to
achieve systemd+wayland+WSL  only integration..

The kind of functionality a full XOrg X11 offers is STILL
orders of magnitude higher and better than that.

*SOLUTION*
So...  first you should have a distro systemd and wayland free.

Second you should be reasonably capable of performing basic
configuration of different types of  XWindows sessions.
(a lot of stuff is included here as font servers, layout customization..)

After having a fully capable X11 workstation with your apps and libs
also properly compiled with that support..

You should login in MultiHome mode (e.g. the mode where
more than one "card" is used but the layout provides no Xinerama
extension although your servers are common (including font servers)

Ditto that. in MultiHome mode login you will open
your projects having isolated GPUs and applications
.. letting only the tasks of handling version control..

To the record... that strange session posted was made
in single session chrooted environment.. with total isolation
although fully equal between them...

so.. 2 decent solutions for the interested ones.

I love your insults..  :-+
Paul
« Last Edit: July 07, 2021, 02:08:49 pm by PKTKS »
 

Online Monkeh

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Re: KICAD and dual monitors
« Reply #37 on: July 07, 2021, 02:12:09 pm »
So, yes, clumsy overblown workaround which doesn't resolve the fundamental issue of KiCAD not being designed to handle having the same project open by two sessions. Plus rant and thinly veiled insults. Amazingly, you didn't go on about perl in this post for a change.
 

Offline PKTKS

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Re: KICAD and dual monitors
« Reply #38 on: July 07, 2021, 02:15:00 pm »
So, yes, clumsy overblown workaround which doesn't resolve the fundamental issue of KiCAD not being designed to handle having the same project open by two sessions. Plus rant and thinly veiled insults. Amazingly, you didn't go on about perl in this post for a change.

fine think what you want...

while whining and blabbing I am running the solution for myself..
for over decades ....

And I provide that for those with kind respect.

And you will need a bit or two or PERL in that.
It helps way over I can tell

Paul
 

Online Monkeh

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Re: KICAD and dual monitors
« Reply #39 on: July 07, 2021, 02:39:53 pm »
Open both your sessions. In session 1, run a new trace. Does it appear in session 2?

Save session 2. Close both. Open them. Is the trace still there?
 

Offline PKTKS

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Re: KICAD and dual monitors
« Reply #40 on: July 07, 2021, 02:45:15 pm »
Open both your sessions. In session 1, run a new trace. Does it appear in session 2?

Save session 2. Close both. Open them. Is the trace still there?

Well I think you are reasonably clever enough
to understand that ...

- WITHOUT MESSING A SINGLE LINE OF CODE...
- THERE IS A WAY TO SEE 2 or 3 PARTS OF YOUR PCB..
- change them at will compare them.. save them wo messing..

What you want obviously is a DEEP modification of the project...

Which I am afraid to disappoint you should not happen so soon.

Although possible.. it should take time and introduce far
more bugs the folks can handle.

If you prefer to stay sit on that... your call

Paul
 

Online Monkeh

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Re: KICAD and dual monitors
« Reply #41 on: July 07, 2021, 02:47:40 pm »
Open both your sessions. In session 1, run a new trace. Does it appear in session 2?

Save session 2. Close both. Open them. Is the trace still there?

Well I think you are reasonably clever enough
to understand that ...

- WITHOUT MESSING A SINGLE LINE OF CODE...
- THERE IS A WAY TO SEE 2 or 3 PARTS OF YOUR PCB..
- change them at will compare them.. save them wo messing..

What you want obviously is a DEEP modification of the project...

Which I am afraid to disappoint you should not happen so soon.

Although possible.. it should take time and introduce far
more bugs the folks can handle.

If you prefer to stay sit on that... your call

Paul

And as explained far earlier in the thread, you can do this without all your messing about and whining about systemd and wayland. But then you don't get to rant about them.
 

Offline PKTKS

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Re: KICAD and dual monitors
« Reply #42 on: July 07, 2021, 02:52:18 pm »
And as explained far earlier in the thread, you can do this without all your messing about and whining about systemd and wayland. But then you don't get to rant about them.


My dear... get yourself a cup of coffee.. strong..

You are REQUIRED to have your apps compiled with full X11 stack.

You are REQUIRED to drop systemd for the sake of having no thingy
starting unwanted stuff in your setup..

Did your took you meds today?

I am not ranting.. these are requirements..

Paul
 

Online Monkeh

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Re: KICAD and dual monitors
« Reply #43 on: July 07, 2021, 02:57:20 pm »
And as explained far earlier in the thread, you can do this without all your messing about and whining about systemd and wayland. But then you don't get to rant about them.


My dear... get yourself a cup of coffee.. strong..

You are REQUIRED to have your apps compiled with full X11 stack.

You are REQUIRED to drop systemd for the sake of having no thingy
starting unwanted stuff in your setup..

Did your took you meds today?

I am not ranting.. these are requirements..

Paul

Errr.. required by what? Why?

You are REQUIRED to fully explain yourself and provide references. You're going to need a lot of coffee.
 

Offline PKTKS

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Re: KICAD and dual monitors
« Reply #44 on: July 07, 2021, 03:01:23 pm »

Errr.. required by what? Why?

You are REQUIRED to fully explain yourself and provide references. You're going to need a lot of coffee.

How old are you?  above 20? above 30 at least?

It is already explained with a proper shot of the required
wxGtk BINDINGS TO X11.   It is some post above..

Please do not mess the OP advice with your rants..

I am starting to wonder if you are even above 20y old..  ??? ::)

Paul
 

Online Monkeh

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Re: KICAD and dual monitors
« Reply #45 on: July 07, 2021, 04:27:15 pm »
So what you're telling me is that due to 'requirements', I can't take a stock install of a systemd- and wayland-crippled distro like Ubuntu (I even enabled autologin, which is off by default and a single click to change! Such tinkering!), install the latest version of KiCAD, and open two instances of pcbnew on the same file?

Looks like I just did exactly that to me. No perl. No custom compiling. No chroot. No messing with X config. Running under Wayland, on a systemd distro, with autologin enabled. HOW?!
« Last Edit: July 07, 2021, 04:32:52 pm by Monkeh »
 

Offline PKTKS

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Re: KICAD and dual monitors
« Reply #46 on: July 07, 2021, 04:45:16 pm »
So what you're telling me is that due to 'requirements', I can't take a stock install of a systemd- and wayland-crippled distro like Ubuntu (I even enabled autologin, which is off by default and a single click to change! Such tinkering!), install the latest version of KiCAD, and open two instances of pcbnew on the same file?

Looks like I just did exactly that to me. No perl. No custom compiling. No chroot. No messing with X config. Running under Wayland, on a systemd distro, with autologin enabled. HOW?!


No my dear YOU ARE SAYING this.. to make me look like fool
As you always do. 

I have not figure out what is your problem ... yet.

You can do all this.. it is your head to bang..

The solution I presented is safe - you will not mess your files..

as long as you (like my 6y old nephew) do not insist in making
things the odd way..

Paul

PS.. Alas  the way I presented with proper environment allows to
 MODIFY AND  SAVE BOTH FILES ... which will not happen if you
open the same files that naive way...
« Last Edit: July 07, 2021, 04:48:37 pm by PKTKS »
 

Online Monkeh

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Re: KICAD and dual monitors
« Reply #47 on: July 07, 2021, 04:48:26 pm »
So what you're telling me is that due to 'requirements', I can't take a stock install of a systemd- and wayland-crippled distro like Ubuntu (I even enabled autologin, which is off by default and a single click to change! Such tinkering!), install the latest version of KiCAD, and open two instances of pcbnew on the same file?

Looks like I just did exactly that to me. No perl. No custom compiling. No chroot. No messing with X config. Running under Wayland, on a systemd distro, with autologin enabled. HOW?!


No my dear YOU ARE SAYING this.. to make me look like fool
As you always do. 

I have not figure out what is your problem ... yet.

You can do all this.. it is your head to bang..

The solution I presented is safe - you will not mess your files..

as long as you (like my 6y old nephew) do not insist in making
things the odd way..

Paul

*sigh*

You've yet to explain, then, how having two instances of the program open the same file doesn't pose a risk of one overwriting changes made in the other. And how that's connected to X.
 

Offline PKTKS

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Re: KICAD and dual monitors
« Reply #48 on: July 07, 2021, 04:52:12 pm »
*sigh*

You've yet to explain, then, how having two instances of the program open the same file doesn't pose a risk of one overwriting changes made in the other. And how that's connected to X.

That is  the easiest part as long as you ask politely ..

The reason for that is that THEY ARE NOT 2 INSTANCES
of the "same program on same file"

While one runs on regular file system the other "instance"
is running on my chroot scratch using the newest wxGtk toolkit
(aka 3.1 while other 3.0)

My workstation have such thing ready..

So they both run concurrently without even knowing about each other.

Hope to satisfy your persistent rant about all things i post..

Paul
 

Online Monkeh

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Re: KICAD and dual monitors
« Reply #49 on: July 07, 2021, 04:54:51 pm »
*sigh*

You've yet to explain, then, how having two instances of the program open the same file doesn't pose a risk of one overwriting changes made in the other. And how that's connected to X.

That is  the easiest part as long as you ask politely ..

The reason for that is that THEY ARE NOT 2 INSTANCES
of the "same program on same file"

While one runs on regular file system the other "instance"
is running on my chroot scratch using the newest wxGtk toolkit
(aka 3.1 while other 3.0)

My workstation have such thing ready..

So they both run concurrently without even knowing about each other.

Hope to satisfy your persistent rant about all things i post..

Paul

So.. it's just opening a different copy of the file.

You can do this without a chroot. You can do this without messing with X configuration. There is no great magic and nothing about systemd or wayland holds you back.
 


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