Author Topic: KICAD and dual monitors  (Read 8846 times)

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Offline Messtechniker

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KICAD and dual monitors
« on: May 20, 2021, 06:26:26 am »
Is it possible with KICAD to have an overview of a complete (very large) pcb, for example, on one screen and a detail view of a smaller section of the same pcb on the second monitor?
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Offline woofy

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Re: KICAD and dual monitors
« Reply #1 on: May 20, 2021, 07:22:19 am »
As far as I know two views of a PCB cannot be opened at the same time.
Given the ease of zooming in and out on Kicad, I prefer to have the schematic up on the second monitor.

Online nali

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Re: KICAD and dual monitors
« Reply #2 on: May 20, 2021, 09:08:53 am »
There is a HTML BOM plugin which sort of does that. it's very good for component location for hand assembly  although I suspect you want it more for routing (it shows board outline & components but no track details)
 

Offline dunkemhigh

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Re: KICAD and dual monitors
« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2021, 07:09:38 pm »
Quote
Is it possible with KICAD to have

I don't think any package does that, but it would be super-cool if they would.

I tried to approach this from the other end, using an 'art' graphics pad to work on a portion of the screen:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/eda/graphical-tablets/msg3359382/#msg3359382
 

Offline Doctorandus_P

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Re: KICAD and dual monitors
« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2021, 03:35:56 am »
You can have multiple instances of KiCad open at the same time, but it refuses to have two different instances of the same PCB open at the same time.

Dual monitor setup in KiCad is mostly useful for viewing the PCB and schematic at the same time. Whenever you click on a schematic symbol, Pcbnew pans & zooms (adjustable) to that part on the PCB, and vise versa. When you select a footprint on the PCB, then the schematic pans to that part too.
 

Offline phil from seattle

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Re: KICAD and dual monitors
« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2021, 02:48:50 pm »
Dual monitor setup in KiCad is mostly useful for viewing the PCB and schematic at the same time. Whenever you click on a schematic symbol, Pcbnew pans & zooms (adjustable) to that part on the PCB, and vise versa. When you select a footprint on the PCB, then the schematic pans to that part too.

This is a particularly useful feature (visual link between schema and pcb), especially with hierarchical sheet schemas. Even when using a single monitor for Kicad. Saves a lot of time. Yet another feature that leaves Eagle squarely in the rear view mirror...
 

Offline Doctorandus_P

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Re: KICAD and dual monitors
« Reply #6 on: May 24, 2021, 05:13:15 am »
As a quick workaround: You can print a schematic to .SVG or .PDF and have that open in another program.

I also like to have an extra few megapixels (at least 0.2mm square each) for viewing datasheets. Links to online datasheets are embedded in the symbol libraries, but internet is not fixed and those links may break. If you have your own datasheet collection, you can also modify the links to point directly to them. This gives quite quick access to datasheets of all IC's directly from your schematic.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2021, 05:24:07 am by Doctorandus_P »
 

Offline metro

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Re: KICAD and dual monitors
« Reply #7 on: June 25, 2021, 11:29:53 am »
So, yes, you can, but there are caveats, and several ways to do so:

So, first, remember that all the KiCAD tools essentially run on a python back-end. You can bring up a second view of the design you have open in PCBnew, and display that. I used to do that in one of the older versions a few years ago, but the python API has changed and the way I did it back then does not work anymore. However, I think you can still bring it up.

Easier version, without python scripting, with one major caveat:

Open a second instance of PCBnew and open your design. Yes, I am serious, sounds stupid, but bear with me. PCBnew will complain about another instance being open already. In practice, this however does work flawlessly for me with the current KiCAD 5.99 builds, and will give you two independent PCBnew windows in which you can then view different parts of the same PCB design. You can also make changes to it in BOTH PCBnew instances.

The main caveat here is that you have to MANUALLY keep both PCBnew instances in sync, and that each PCB new instance will only link to its own schematic instance. In practice, you can do that by simply saving your design after every non-trivial change in one instance. When you then want to switch over to working on your second window, simply hit reload and you are good to go. I usually do not change my schematic much when doing the PCB design, besides re-arranging net-pad assignments, so just having an independent eschema instance attached to each applications is not an issue for me.

For all of that to work smoothly, remember to turn off autosave in PCBnew, assuming that you are not just looking and navigating, but also editing your design. If you keep autosave on, one PCBnew instance will eventually changes of your design you are working on in the other view.

Not nice, but it works... Hope this helps.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2021, 11:42:07 am by metro »
 

Online PKTKS

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Re: KICAD and dual monitors
« Reply #8 on: June 26, 2021, 06:47:38 pm »
Is it possible with KICAD to have an overview of a complete (very large) pcb, for example, on one screen and a detail view of a smaller section of the same pcb on the second monitor?

I have read comments above .. but  YES it is possible.

The way I do that (and did that sometimes in the past..)
is simpler to say than actually do...

Reason being is that the setup used to be more simple...
things changed quite a lot.

Early to late 90s  XWindows was replaced by Xorg which
now is heavily biased to that wayland thing more likely
trying to follow the MS shit single display account based paradigm

Those changes implies a lot of facts:
- Xwindows *is* de facto a networked display server
- Xorg kept all the good features but extended some tidbits
 trying to keep pace with very high resolution displays and GPUs.

In the 90s to 00s SVGA monitors were simpler to arrange
and to maintain an Xorg server base...

Today these crippled wayland and dummy single display
servers (like the buntus) make the arrange more complicated.

The arrangement is not DUAL HEADED display
It should be a DUAL HOMED display (or TRIPLE HOMED if you like)

Being a network server.. you will login in your master X server
as many times you want running a full session independent
of each one in which you can have multiple visions of a project.

Obvious a extreme caution should be taken to actually
have an X server with multiple logins ...

One thing that sold me completely to EAGLE in early 00s
was the ability to have multiple 3D PovRay visions on
a DUAL HOME  setup..

Each screen running the same project with modified layouts
for comparison and optimization...

large boards are just a special case of that..

Nostalgic mid 90s project POVRAY rendered for fun...

I used to have this on a DUAL HOMED SVGA setup under XWindows
on my bench...

Paul
« Last Edit: June 26, 2021, 06:49:22 pm by PKTKS »
 

Offline nctnico

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Re: KICAD and dual monitors
« Reply #9 on: June 28, 2021, 05:10:23 pm »
Quote
Is it possible with KICAD to have

I don't think any package does that, but it would be super-cool if they would.
Maybe it gets implemented at some point. Orcad PCB designer / Allegro supports a split view so the question is not outlandish
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline janoc

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Re: KICAD and dual monitors
« Reply #10 on: June 28, 2021, 05:39:29 pm »

Nostalgic mid 90s project POVRAY rendered for fun...

I used to have this on a DUAL HOMED SVGA setup under XWindows
on my bench...

Paul


Seriously, would you mind to cut down on these rants? Such as the previous one on Windows 11 (where you have somehow managed to rant about systemd too :o ) They both don't contribute much if anything to the debate and most of it is factually wrong (e.g. nothing in Xorg is based on Wayland, Wayland is a completely separate project, "XWindows" wasn't replaced by XOrg, you are confusing XWindow standard with XFree86, which XOrg is a fork of, etc).

Multihomed displays you can have even today with X11, however multihomed setup != multiple monitors, multihoming means you have 2 or more "workstations" on one computer, including separate mouse and keyboard and it has nothing to do with networking ...

Multiple monitors work just fine as well, including under Wayland - but then also the aplications need to support it and nobody forces you to use Wayland. Even Ubuntu still ships XOrg.


And none of this stuff in any way or form addresses the OP's problem. You can open a single app multiple times without any such "hacks", the reason why it doesn't work with KiCAD by default is because you will corrupt your data if you do that. It has nothing to do with the display server.

« Last Edit: June 28, 2021, 05:41:33 pm by janoc »
 
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Online PKTKS

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Re: KICAD and dual monitors
« Reply #11 on: June 29, 2021, 08:23:50 am »
I do not rant. Rant is for chicks and juvies

I also have to deal with some distros based on systemd and that thing is a problem.

You may be not comfy with the terms used as they also changed along time.. but i have no mood to discuss semantics

But using remote console on properly xinerama enabled or not apps with a remote server still requires you proper understanding of how things impact and interact

Like gpu accel remote font server ssh ports and encryption and proper Xorg layout definition

There is no rant
 Systemd just do not work that way
It is meant to single display auto  login

I have tried and dropped that systemd
Wayland thing. So you better try it right  without both and let systemd for what is meant

I assure you it works
Marvelous fast
Remote dual homed screens each logged onsame X server Xfree XOrg or just any  plain X windows session...

Semantic apart like it or not it works
The tip is good valid and properly advised
Do not cloud it with semantics or rants

Paul
« Last Edit: June 29, 2021, 08:29:11 am by PKTKS »
 

Offline Karel

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Re: KICAD and dual monitors
« Reply #12 on: June 29, 2021, 09:54:06 am »
Is it possible with KICAD to have an overview of a complete (very large) pcb, for example, on one screen and a detail view of a smaller section of the same pcb on the second monitor?

Sure, when those monitors are connected to different pc's...
 

Online PKTKS

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Re: KICAD and dual monitors
« Reply #13 on: June 29, 2021, 10:50:23 am »

Nostalgic mid 90s project POVRAY rendered for fun...

I used to have this on a DUAL HOMED SVGA setup under XWindows
on my bench...

Paul


(..)
And none of this stuff in any way or form addresses the OP's problem. You can open a single app multiple times without any such "hacks", the reason why it doesn't work with KiCAD by default is because you will corrupt your data if you do that. It has nothing to do with the display server.

I am also wondering *IF* we are talking on the same kind of setup...
or we are on the same page...

I never mentioned the stuff you rant about...
as being replaced or ranting this that..

Fact is attached
My setup evolved from what you call XFree86.
That bundle was prevalent in distros at 90s.

Xorg is just another name to the very same protocol stack
(all above layer 4) in which you do require your apps compiled
with -lXinerama to at least support multi heads.

Despite that being a client-server only model the setup
requires all protocols available at compile time.

My setup evolved from that and trying to bundle systemd and
wayland was a huge waste of time in my case.

Thus the 2 cents of advice I think are very handy.
Far from being rants..

And take a good look on how basic networking is required..
If you wonder how X relates to network ... or SSH

All graphic ready in my setup
 so you just don not patronize me about non sense  terms and basic stuff.
Kinda of that do not fit at all

For the record currently I have successfully upgraded my
scratch system to LLVM12 + MESA20 + GCC10
In which I totally dropped systemd and all wayland protocol stack
because they are a huge messy sack of problems...

All already working fine as long as all clients are properly
aware or all required networked protocols at compile time
and got rid of those problems

For the record BOTH are working Multi Head and Multi Homed

Also for the record
I never ever had any issue of corruption because
when doing that.. I take the proper measure at login saving
proper state and isolating things properly


Kinda a newbie stuff think someone will open same project
2 or 3 times doing random changes... pathetic.

2 cents of who already trailed that
for those interested in succeeding properly

Paul  :-+
« Last Edit: June 29, 2021, 10:56:43 am by PKTKS »
 

Offline Bassman59

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Re: KICAD and dual monitors
« Reply #14 on: June 30, 2021, 09:16:15 pm »
I do not rant. Rant is for chicks and juvies

But none of what you wrote helps the OP, or even begins to answer the question.
 
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Online PKTKS

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Re: KICAD and dual monitors
« Reply #15 on: July 01, 2021, 08:55:05 am »
Well if anyone for some reason
Can not see how you open a secondary
view of a large pcb using that method..

Well that is beyond what i can reason
Method is explained to the best i can
with my own setup and extensive considerations...

Paul
 

Offline Bassman59

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Re: KICAD and dual monitors
« Reply #16 on: July 01, 2021, 11:54:55 pm »
Well if anyone for some reason
Can not see how you open a secondary
view of a large pcb using that method..

Well that is beyond what i can reason
Method is explained to the best i can
with my own setup and extensive considerations...

Paul

You're missing the point. Kicad supports multiple monitors, because the Big Three Operating Systems support multiple monitors. I use Kicad on macOS, and it supports the three monitors I have (the iMac built-in 5k display and two 1920 x 1200 others). That is not what is being asked, and you'd understand that if you calmed down for a moment.

The OP asks if Kicad can show two views of the same layout -- one zoomed out, one zoomed in.

Everyone else on this thread agrees that it's a great idea, and everyone else understands that it's something Kicad doesn't support. It actually doesn't matter if the user's computer has more than one display; if it was supported it could do it on just one.

Altium doesn't support this concept, either. I don't know about any other PCB CAD packages because I have access to only Kicad and Altium.
 
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Online PKTKS

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Re: KICAD and dual monitors
« Reply #17 on: July 02, 2021, 07:49:53 am »
As pointed above the method allows
anyone and any package (like the eagle
Povray example) to achieve multiple
views of a project regardless any other
cosideration. Just a proper setup

As said it used to be simpler.

Modern hardware is more reliant on gpus
Which in turn are closed source mostly

Having multihead depends on Xinerama
protocol and some good implementation
AND software match.. versioning and
proper set of initialization

Multihomed are easier because they
have no explicit Xinerama but anyway
you still require proper gpu rendering
support and proper setup and compatible protocol stack

A single display with such feature  depends only in software.. and viewports

The method i have used depends on
no software no version no package

It was already working by 2000s eagle
Povray ulp...  even gpus at date were
a crappy beggining..

It alread works on any XWindows session over 20y already.. no need to wait gpu vendors good will and hacks

Paul
« Last Edit: July 02, 2021, 07:54:15 am by PKTKS »
 

Offline nctnico

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Re: KICAD and dual monitors
« Reply #18 on: July 02, 2021, 04:09:13 pm »
Being a network server.. you will login in your master X server
as many times you want running a full session independent
of each one in which you can have multiple visions of a project.
But that requires opening the same project multiple times which CAD software typically doesn't support to avoid corrupting the file.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Online PKTKS

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Re: KICAD and dual monitors
« Reply #19 on: July 03, 2021, 08:32:30 am »
Well I assume I am talking with experienced folks...  in which in no possible scenario should even try to open the same project  more than once.

Multiple XWindows logins always require care with your home config as even simple files may be overwritten.

In my case i have always used the Multihomed session to derive a board layout and do comparison and reautoplacing rerouting on the fly with visual feedback

There are dozen methods to shadow copy your files including deep copy links and proper versioning. I  use CVS in my files as well.

Never had a single issue besides my shell history always been been mixed up among multiple logins

Just basic care is enough ..

Your real problem is to have proper GPU  support aka GART apertures and MMR registers setup.. on multiple cards

IMHO being now dependent on gpu seller good will is a nasty problem

Paul
 

Offline ebastler

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Re: KICAD and dual monitors
« Reply #20 on: July 03, 2021, 10:04:36 am »
Well if anyone for some reason
Can not see how you open a secondary
view of a large pcb using that method..

Well that is beyond what i can reason
Method is explained to the best i can
with my own setup and extensive considerations...

Paul

I don't think you have much to contribute to the OP's question.
But I do enjoy your Haikus.  ::)
 

Online PKTKS

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Re: KICAD and dual monitors
« Reply #21 on: July 03, 2021, 12:11:26 pm »
Well if anyone for some reason
Can not see how you open a secondary
view of a large pcb using that method..

Well that is beyond what i can reason
Method is explained to the best i can
with my own setup and extensive considerations...

Paul

I don't think you have much to contribute to the OP's question.
But I do enjoy your Haikus.  ::)

Not sure if I understand ...

What?  sitting and wait some Python sweet heart craft a thing
that attach the KiCAD API to display a secondary window?

Wait even longer so the underlay toolkit will care about Xinerama
support ( instead of tinkering that wayland confused side track ) ?

What the reason to wait .. I had that dual display session working
on the bench w/2 SVGA monitors..  used to be simpler because
the setup required less GPU vendor support and you could mix
a dozen different brands SiS, ATI, S3, Matrox, Trident...

they all died and we are doomed to 2 may be 3 gpus of choice.
Chances are that mixing their crappy drivers won't even boot.

So dual display - being Xinerama or not - are still feasible
with some careful considerations as explained.

If the OP will sit and wait some Python thing or some hacks
on the toolkit... well I can not argue.

I have mine already working

Paul
 

Offline bson

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Re: KICAD and dual monitors
« Reply #22 on: July 04, 2021, 03:16:36 am »
What are you talking about?  KiCAD is implemented in C++, not python.  It only uses python for scripting, like footprint wizards, BOM generation, and various things that are relatively simple to implement but often need so be customized.  There is no way you can make it display a schematic or PCB in two windows by not making substantial changes to how it manages sessions.  None of that is within the scope of what python is for.  Besides, as has been repeatedly pointed out, it already works just fine over multiple displays.  It also works just fine over virtual desktops/spaces in Windows and MacOS.  Not sure about Linux.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2021, 03:19:40 am by bson »
 

Online PKTKS

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Re: KICAD and dual monitors
« Reply #23 on: July 04, 2021, 08:01:09 am »
Formally KiCAD is wrapped around wxGtk

Which happens to be a C++ toolkit
I think it is great considering the status of Qt after being bought

If  you have not seen it yet there is an alternate bundle to wxGtk with an embed Python interpreter called wxPython
https://www.wxpython.org/

<PS> Specifically https://docs.wxpython.org/wx.glcanvas.1moduleindex.html
where an enthusiastic folk can render any sort of view in 2 minute pythonish

I am not a python fan much because I deal with PERL for more than 20y+..
so last time I checked (what they call now legacy wxPython) you could
just as in PERL  object oriented wrappers (auto made with higher order converters
e.g. formally http://www.swig.org/) just interface any sort of API .
Done that in PERL Gtk and that is a very very powerful
method to achieve such short goals on large projects..
<END PS>

You can in theory  just use that  as well although last time i checked the team could not put it aupar with the pure release

Paul
« Last Edit: July 05, 2021, 07:33:47 am by PKTKS »
 

Online pointhi

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Re: KICAD and dual monitors
« Reply #24 on: July 04, 2021, 12:28:54 pm »
Sorry to say this @PKTKS, but the stuff you are talking about is not working as you think it does.
 
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Online PKTKS

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Re: KICAD and dual monitors
« Reply #25 on: July 04, 2021, 06:33:58 pm »
You need to be specific

My system works as explained
While other speculations i can
only provide fixes or directions
IF you be more clear

BTW if you wonder swig bindings to python i suggest GNURadio wich makes extensive use of swig to python.

Paul
« Last Edit: July 04, 2021, 06:56:03 pm by PKTKS »
 

Offline bson

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Re: KICAD and dual monitors
« Reply #26 on: July 04, 2021, 07:23:07 pm »
Just clone it from git@gitlab.com:kicad/code/kicad.git and see for yourself.
 

Online PKTKS

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Re: KICAD and dual monitors
« Reply #27 on: July 04, 2021, 07:26:41 pm »
I have  exactly 8 working versions of KiCAD on my primary workstation

What exactly these vague comment i should look for? Be specific

Paul
 

Offline Bassman59

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Re: KICAD and dual monitors
« Reply #28 on: July 04, 2021, 11:08:51 pm »
Formerly KiCAD is wrapped around wxGtk

Formally (not formerly, as this information is current) Kicad uses the wxWidgets library to allow developers to write cross-platform applications without having to get too involved in learning the underlying system.

Quote
Which happens to be a C++ toolkit

Correct!

Quote
I think it is great considering the status of Qt after being bought

This discussion isn't about the choice of cross-platform application library. Other than to say that the Kicad developers chose wx, and migrating to anything else will be painful.

Quote
If  you have not seen it yet there is an alternate bundle to wxGtk with an embed Python interpreter called wxPython
https://www.wxpython.org/

<PS> Specifically https://docs.wxpython.org/wx.glcanvas.1moduleindex.html
where an enthusiastic folk can render any sort of view in 2 minute pythonish

And ... Kicad already uses wxPython -- it's how Kicad presents the python scripting console!

Quote
I am not a python fan much because I deal with PERL for more than 20y+..
so last time I checked (what they call now legacy wxPython) you could
just as in PERL  object oriented wrappers (auto made with higher order converters
e.g. formerly http://www.swig.org/) just interface any sort of API .
Done that in PERL Gtk and that is a very very powerful
method to achieve such short goals on large projects..
<END PS>

perl? That's hilarious.

 

Offline Bassman59

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Re: KICAD and dual monitors
« Reply #29 on: July 04, 2021, 11:14:32 pm »
Well if anyone for some reason
Can not see how you open a secondary
view of a large pcb using that method..

Well that is beyond what i can reason
Method is explained to the best i can
with my own setup and extensive considerations...

Paul

I don't think you have much to contribute to the OP's question.
But I do enjoy your Haikus.  ::)

Not sure if I understand ...

What?  sitting and wait some Python sweet heart craft a thing
that attach the KiCAD API to display a secondary window?

Wait even longer so the underlay toolkit will care about Xinerama
support ( instead of tinkering that wayland confused side track ) ?

What the reason to wait .. I had that dual display session working
on the bench w/2 SVGA monitors..  used to be simpler because
the setup required less GPU vendor support and you could mix
a dozen different brands SiS, ATI, S3, Matrox, Trident...

they all died and we are doomed to 2 may be 3 gpus of choice.
Chances are that mixing their crappy drivers won't even boot.

So dual display - being Xinerama or not - are still feasible
with some careful considerations as explained.

If the OP will sit and wait some Python thing or some hacks
on the toolkit... well I can not argue.

Dude, you still haven't figured out that the underlying issue is that Kicad displays the layout in only one view. If someone stepped up and proposed how to have the application display two separate views of the layout, then it can be implemented. It's not a python thing at all. It requires support at the toolkit level.

I haven't seen an application that uses X Windows in ages. It's a dead technology. Nobody cares.

Quote
I have mine already working

Wait, you have Kicad's PCB editor showing two views of the same layout, in two windows? Cool! SHOW US.
 

Offline dunkemhigh

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Re: KICAD and dual monitors
« Reply #30 on: July 05, 2021, 07:01:16 am »
Quote
I haven't seen an application that uses X Windows in ages. It's a dead technology.

https://sourceforge.net/projects/vcxsrv/

Used it yesterday to get a Linux Mint app running on a Windows 7 desktop. Depending on situation it can be better than a RDP view to a VM or actual remote machine.
 

Online PKTKS

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Re: KICAD and dual monitors
« Reply #31 on: July 05, 2021, 01:45:19 pm »
Formerly KiCAD is wrapped around wxGtk

Formally (not formerly, as this information is current)

First let me thank you very much for pointing the mistake
Fixed noted and hopefully not forgotten


 Kicad already uses wxPython -- it's how Kicad presents the python scripting console!

They do not use the  full version of it .
 They use just a tiny part of it to have that functionality

perl? That's hilarious.

Well . once managed PERL allowed me to write KiCAD converters
parsers and other stuff which  includes managing clever sessions
like the one I am  posting.

Dude, you still haven't figured out that the underlying issue is that Kicad displays the layout in only one view. If someone stepped up and proposed how to have the application display two separate views of the layout, then it can be implemented. It's not a python thing at all. It requires support at the toolkit level.

I haven't seen an application that uses X Windows in ages. It's a dead technology. Nobody cares

You just can not be more wrong about that.

As you requested I will satisfy you showing you NOT THE WAY I DO IT
and the way I suggested the OP to do it.

Note that this is to satisfy YOU....  you  just can not be more wrong about ...
The real way I do this is already explained.


To satisfy your curiosity and misunderstanding how Xwindows is nothing
but obsolete.. I am posting a screenshot of:
- A BASIC PROJECT CRAFTED in 3 minutes... just for this show off
- USING THE SAME location /tmp  in the same workstation.and same user !!!
- USING THE SAME VERSION OF KiCAD  running multiple times..

WTF how ?  using that hilarious PERL thing with that obsolete full
bleeding edge X11 workstation... WTF X11 XWindows... yep just that..

Attached as well the proper bindings to WX to allow X11 to perform
such  amazing things...  also a proper  listing of **ALL** versions of Wx
in my primary workstations so I can run 8 versions of KiCAD against them

Cheers. And  have fun seeing how crippled these PCs that ditched X11 are...
Nothing but a single crippled display without  proper workstation functionality...

Paul

« Last Edit: July 05, 2021, 01:58:16 pm by PKTKS »
 

Offline metro

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Re: KICAD and dual monitors
« Reply #32 on: July 06, 2021, 06:28:24 pm »
Folks, I don't think any of this is helpful, you are completely off topic...

Maybe it would be good if a mod could lock this thread?

Short answer: You can currently not open two independent views in KiCAD, we all agree it would be great.
Clumsy workaround: open the same project in two instances of KiCAD, turn off autosave, and take care to do a save+reload cycle every time you are making a change to the design. Not nice, but if you really only need two independent views or zoom-levels of the same things, this works. If all you do is reviewing a design, not editing it, you are probably fine.

Sorry if this is not the kind of answer you would like, but hey, you can always contribute to PCBnew and add a 2-window/2-viewport feature...
 
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Offline bson

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Re: KICAD and dual monitors
« Reply #33 on: July 06, 2021, 09:49:50 pm »
Clumsy workaround: open the same project in two instances of KiCAD, turn off autosave, and take care to do a save+reload cycle every time you are making a change to the design. Not nice, but if you really only need two independent views or zoom-levels of the same things, this works. If all you do is reviewing a design, not editing it, you are probably fine.
This would kind of defeat the purpose of having it in the first place.  To me the whole idea would be to see changes on two different scales while doing things like routing and push-and-shove, or netlist selection.  One close-in where the trace head is, where I'm adding segments, and another for the full board, to see where I'm going.

Another useful feature would be to be able to view to git commits/tags/branches side by side.  And have KiCad highlight differences.  Even if one view were a readonly detached head and I'm only working on a head.  (It could checkout the commit to a temporary directory just for viewing and visual diffing.)

Same with schematics.

But for me I think a higher priority for now is to be able to have multiple PCBs (not unlike multiple schematics) in one project.  Then this could be used to implement versioning, diffing, etc.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2021, 09:54:48 pm by bson »
 

Online PKTKS

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Re: KICAD and dual monitors
« Reply #34 on: July 07, 2021, 09:48:56 am »
Folks, I don't think any of this is helpful, you are completely off topic...

Maybe it would be good if a mod could lock this thread?

Short answer: You can currently not open two independent views in KiCAD, we all agree it would be great.
Clumsy workaround: open the same project in two instances of KiCAD, turn off autosave, and take care to do a save+reload cycle every time you are making a change to the design. Not nice, but if you really only need two independent views or zoom-levels of the same things, this works. If all you do is reviewing a design, not editing it, you are probably fine.

Sorry if this is not the kind of answer you would like, but hey, you can always contribute to PCBnew and add a 2-window/2-viewport feature...

just for the record as it seems some folks still can not get it.

The session posted *IS NOT** a clumsy workaround

It is a real thing where I can MODIFY BOTH FILES INDEPENDENTLY
even saving them without any sort of trouble.. yes it is like that...

The kind of setup used is not for newbies and explaining that
would be off topic...

I am  offering a solution to the OP instead of whining crying
for some type of very extensive modification

Solution which I consider very handy to the OP

2 cents of real solution to the OP instead of crying features
that will not happen any time soon

Paul
« Last Edit: July 07, 2021, 09:50:43 am by PKTKS »
 

Offline Monkeh

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Re: KICAD and dual monitors
« Reply #35 on: July 07, 2021, 01:48:21 pm »
You haven't yet offered a solution - only bragged about having one and gone on long pointless rants about 'losing X11' when most everyone still uses X, complete with misinformed unrelated rants about systemd being 'designed for autologin'.
 

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Re: KICAD and dual monitors
« Reply #36 on: July 07, 2021, 02:02:52 pm »
You haven't yet offered a solution - only bragged about having one and gone on long pointless rants about 'losing X11' when most everyone still uses X, complete with misinformed unrelated rants about systemd being 'designed for autologin'.

I was missing you..  ^-^  your always inspiring insults..

I will tell slowly again:
- most distros (if not all) based on systemd are made w/autologin
 (which can be disabled with some tinkering...) single user display
- they are not obviously but with some effort easily perceived as
  biased to offer a compatible layer based on wayland to WSL

Removing what they call legacy, deprecated tech. old unmaintainable
XOrg X11 .. call whatever you like... but removing it is essential to
achieve systemd+wayland+WSL  only integration..

The kind of functionality a full XOrg X11 offers is STILL
orders of magnitude higher and better than that.

*SOLUTION*
So...  first you should have a distro systemd and wayland free.

Second you should be reasonably capable of performing basic
configuration of different types of  XWindows sessions.
(a lot of stuff is included here as font servers, layout customization..)

After having a fully capable X11 workstation with your apps and libs
also properly compiled with that support..

You should login in MultiHome mode (e.g. the mode where
more than one "card" is used but the layout provides no Xinerama
extension although your servers are common (including font servers)

Ditto that. in MultiHome mode login you will open
your projects having isolated GPUs and applications
.. letting only the tasks of handling version control..

To the record... that strange session posted was made
in single session chrooted environment.. with total isolation
although fully equal between them...

so.. 2 decent solutions for the interested ones.

I love your insults..  :-+
Paul
« Last Edit: July 07, 2021, 02:08:49 pm by PKTKS »
 

Offline Monkeh

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Re: KICAD and dual monitors
« Reply #37 on: July 07, 2021, 02:12:09 pm »
So, yes, clumsy overblown workaround which doesn't resolve the fundamental issue of KiCAD not being designed to handle having the same project open by two sessions. Plus rant and thinly veiled insults. Amazingly, you didn't go on about perl in this post for a change.
 

Online PKTKS

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Re: KICAD and dual monitors
« Reply #38 on: July 07, 2021, 02:15:00 pm »
So, yes, clumsy overblown workaround which doesn't resolve the fundamental issue of KiCAD not being designed to handle having the same project open by two sessions. Plus rant and thinly veiled insults. Amazingly, you didn't go on about perl in this post for a change.

fine think what you want...

while whining and blabbing I am running the solution for myself..
for over decades ....

And I provide that for those with kind respect.

And you will need a bit or two or PERL in that.
It helps way over I can tell

Paul
 

Offline Monkeh

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Re: KICAD and dual monitors
« Reply #39 on: July 07, 2021, 02:39:53 pm »
Open both your sessions. In session 1, run a new trace. Does it appear in session 2?

Save session 2. Close both. Open them. Is the trace still there?
 

Online PKTKS

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Re: KICAD and dual monitors
« Reply #40 on: July 07, 2021, 02:45:15 pm »
Open both your sessions. In session 1, run a new trace. Does it appear in session 2?

Save session 2. Close both. Open them. Is the trace still there?

Well I think you are reasonably clever enough
to understand that ...

- WITHOUT MESSING A SINGLE LINE OF CODE...
- THERE IS A WAY TO SEE 2 or 3 PARTS OF YOUR PCB..
- change them at will compare them.. save them wo messing..

What you want obviously is a DEEP modification of the project...

Which I am afraid to disappoint you should not happen so soon.

Although possible.. it should take time and introduce far
more bugs the folks can handle.

If you prefer to stay sit on that... your call

Paul
 

Offline Monkeh

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Re: KICAD and dual monitors
« Reply #41 on: July 07, 2021, 02:47:40 pm »
Open both your sessions. In session 1, run a new trace. Does it appear in session 2?

Save session 2. Close both. Open them. Is the trace still there?

Well I think you are reasonably clever enough
to understand that ...

- WITHOUT MESSING A SINGLE LINE OF CODE...
- THERE IS A WAY TO SEE 2 or 3 PARTS OF YOUR PCB..
- change them at will compare them.. save them wo messing..

What you want obviously is a DEEP modification of the project...

Which I am afraid to disappoint you should not happen so soon.

Although possible.. it should take time and introduce far
more bugs the folks can handle.

If you prefer to stay sit on that... your call

Paul

And as explained far earlier in the thread, you can do this without all your messing about and whining about systemd and wayland. But then you don't get to rant about them.
 

Online PKTKS

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Re: KICAD and dual monitors
« Reply #42 on: July 07, 2021, 02:52:18 pm »
And as explained far earlier in the thread, you can do this without all your messing about and whining about systemd and wayland. But then you don't get to rant about them.


My dear... get yourself a cup of coffee.. strong..

You are REQUIRED to have your apps compiled with full X11 stack.

You are REQUIRED to drop systemd for the sake of having no thingy
starting unwanted stuff in your setup..

Did your took you meds today?

I am not ranting.. these are requirements..

Paul
 

Offline Monkeh

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Re: KICAD and dual monitors
« Reply #43 on: July 07, 2021, 02:57:20 pm »
And as explained far earlier in the thread, you can do this without all your messing about and whining about systemd and wayland. But then you don't get to rant about them.


My dear... get yourself a cup of coffee.. strong..

You are REQUIRED to have your apps compiled with full X11 stack.

You are REQUIRED to drop systemd for the sake of having no thingy
starting unwanted stuff in your setup..

Did your took you meds today?

I am not ranting.. these are requirements..

Paul

Errr.. required by what? Why?

You are REQUIRED to fully explain yourself and provide references. You're going to need a lot of coffee.
 

Online PKTKS

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Re: KICAD and dual monitors
« Reply #44 on: July 07, 2021, 03:01:23 pm »

Errr.. required by what? Why?

You are REQUIRED to fully explain yourself and provide references. You're going to need a lot of coffee.

How old are you?  above 20? above 30 at least?

It is already explained with a proper shot of the required
wxGtk BINDINGS TO X11.   It is some post above..

Please do not mess the OP advice with your rants..

I am starting to wonder if you are even above 20y old..  ??? ::)

Paul
 

Offline Monkeh

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Re: KICAD and dual monitors
« Reply #45 on: July 07, 2021, 04:27:15 pm »
So what you're telling me is that due to 'requirements', I can't take a stock install of a systemd- and wayland-crippled distro like Ubuntu (I even enabled autologin, which is off by default and a single click to change! Such tinkering!), install the latest version of KiCAD, and open two instances of pcbnew on the same file?

Looks like I just did exactly that to me. No perl. No custom compiling. No chroot. No messing with X config. Running under Wayland, on a systemd distro, with autologin enabled. HOW?!
« Last Edit: July 07, 2021, 04:32:52 pm by Monkeh »
 

Online PKTKS

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Re: KICAD and dual monitors
« Reply #46 on: July 07, 2021, 04:45:16 pm »
So what you're telling me is that due to 'requirements', I can't take a stock install of a systemd- and wayland-crippled distro like Ubuntu (I even enabled autologin, which is off by default and a single click to change! Such tinkering!), install the latest version of KiCAD, and open two instances of pcbnew on the same file?

Looks like I just did exactly that to me. No perl. No custom compiling. No chroot. No messing with X config. Running under Wayland, on a systemd distro, with autologin enabled. HOW?!


No my dear YOU ARE SAYING this.. to make me look like fool
As you always do. 

I have not figure out what is your problem ... yet.

You can do all this.. it is your head to bang..

The solution I presented is safe - you will not mess your files..

as long as you (like my 6y old nephew) do not insist in making
things the odd way..

Paul

PS.. Alas  the way I presented with proper environment allows to
 MODIFY AND  SAVE BOTH FILES ... which will not happen if you
open the same files that naive way...
« Last Edit: July 07, 2021, 04:48:37 pm by PKTKS »
 

Offline Monkeh

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Re: KICAD and dual monitors
« Reply #47 on: July 07, 2021, 04:48:26 pm »
So what you're telling me is that due to 'requirements', I can't take a stock install of a systemd- and wayland-crippled distro like Ubuntu (I even enabled autologin, which is off by default and a single click to change! Such tinkering!), install the latest version of KiCAD, and open two instances of pcbnew on the same file?

Looks like I just did exactly that to me. No perl. No custom compiling. No chroot. No messing with X config. Running under Wayland, on a systemd distro, with autologin enabled. HOW?!


No my dear YOU ARE SAYING this.. to make me look like fool
As you always do. 

I have not figure out what is your problem ... yet.

You can do all this.. it is your head to bang..

The solution I presented is safe - you will not mess your files..

as long as you (like my 6y old nephew) do not insist in making
things the odd way..

Paul

*sigh*

You've yet to explain, then, how having two instances of the program open the same file doesn't pose a risk of one overwriting changes made in the other. And how that's connected to X.
 

Online PKTKS

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Re: KICAD and dual monitors
« Reply #48 on: July 07, 2021, 04:52:12 pm »
*sigh*

You've yet to explain, then, how having two instances of the program open the same file doesn't pose a risk of one overwriting changes made in the other. And how that's connected to X.

That is  the easiest part as long as you ask politely ..

The reason for that is that THEY ARE NOT 2 INSTANCES
of the "same program on same file"

While one runs on regular file system the other "instance"
is running on my chroot scratch using the newest wxGtk toolkit
(aka 3.1 while other 3.0)

My workstation have such thing ready..

So they both run concurrently without even knowing about each other.

Hope to satisfy your persistent rant about all things i post..

Paul
 

Offline Monkeh

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Re: KICAD and dual monitors
« Reply #49 on: July 07, 2021, 04:54:51 pm »
*sigh*

You've yet to explain, then, how having two instances of the program open the same file doesn't pose a risk of one overwriting changes made in the other. And how that's connected to X.

That is  the easiest part as long as you ask politely ..

The reason for that is that THEY ARE NOT 2 INSTANCES
of the "same program on same file"

While one runs on regular file system the other "instance"
is running on my chroot scratch using the newest wxGtk toolkit
(aka 3.1 while other 3.0)

My workstation have such thing ready..

So they both run concurrently without even knowing about each other.

Hope to satisfy your persistent rant about all things i post..

Paul

So.. it's just opening a different copy of the file.

You can do this without a chroot. You can do this without messing with X configuration. There is no great magic and nothing about systemd or wayland holds you back.
 

Online PKTKS

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Re: KICAD and dual monitors
« Reply #50 on: July 07, 2021, 05:02:20 pm »
No my dear...

IT IS A WHOLE DIFFERENT SYSTEM ...
New glibc  new boost  new everything..

It is a whole environment as said

100% safe thing

Running on the same workstation..
SYSTEMD FREE and far from wayland mess

I deal with 8 KiCAD versions... 4 stable wxGtk branches
and **ONE** a single one unstable entry system.

Currently working under GCC10 LLVM12 MESA 20 and boost 1.76

Paul

« Last Edit: July 07, 2021, 05:04:36 pm by PKTKS »
 

Offline Monkeh

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Re: KICAD and dual monitors
« Reply #51 on: July 07, 2021, 05:05:59 pm »
And that's all irrelevant, because the end result is you have another instance of a program operating on a different file. The rest is unnecessary, and it has nothing to do with systemd or Wayland. You could use the exact same binaries running in a chroot or any other form of container to achieve your isolation, and the isolation isn't even needed because they are different files.

Your use-case of running multple different versions of the software is not relevant to the thread. Your hatred of systemd, Wayland, or any other piece of software is not relevant to the thread.

In the current state of KiCAD there are two simple methods to gain a limited second view of a PCB or schematic:
  • Disable autosaves, remove the lock files, and run a second instance (dangerous).
  • Make a second copy of the project and open it with a second instance of the tool (safe enough).

Your method is the second with additional complications fueled by other specific requirements and/or your own desires.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2021, 05:09:34 pm by Monkeh »
 

Online PKTKS

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Re: KICAD and dual monitors
« Reply #52 on: July 07, 2021, 05:09:04 pm »
And that's all irrelevant, because the end result is you have another instance of a program operating on a different file. The rest is unnecessary, and it has nothing to do with systemd or Wayland. You could use the exact same binaries running in a chroot or any other form of container to achieve your isolation, and the isolation isn't even needed because they are different files.

Your use-case of running multple different versions of the software is not relevant to the thread. Your hatred of systemd, Wayland, or any other piece of software is not relevant to the thread.

If that makes you happy... ok

all is irrelevant... 

unless that I fetch them from the the same  NAS server  every time
I start to deal with versioning... alas.. they are instantly checked in
and automatic checked out... upon use.

thanks to PERL mods to CVS or SVN

Paul
 

Online PKTKS

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Re: KICAD and dual monitors
« Reply #53 on: July 07, 2021, 05:19:07 pm »

Your hatred of systemd, Wayland, or any other piece of software is not relevant to the thread.


Nah.. none hatred at all..

I made a MINT system to my 6y old nephew play games..
That is exactly made for him..

POTTERIX systems are for that kind of use.

he just loves it..  :popcorn:

Me too watching his grin  ^-^
Paul
 

Offline Zero999

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Re: KICAD and dual monitors
« Reply #54 on: July 08, 2021, 01:19:57 pm »
And that's all irrelevant, because the end result is you have another instance of a program operating on a different file. The rest is unnecessary, and it has nothing to do with systemd or Wayland. You could use the exact same binaries running in a chroot or any other form of container to achieve your isolation, and the isolation isn't even needed because they are different files.

Your use-case of running multple different versions of the software is not relevant to the thread. Your hatred of systemd, Wayland, or any other piece of software is not relevant to the thread.

If that makes you happy... ok

all is irrelevant... 

unless that I fetch them from the the same  NAS server  every time
I start to deal with versioning... alas.. they are instantly checked in
and automatic checked out... upon use.

thanks to PERL mods to CVS or SVN

Paul

Please allow the forum software to wrap your posts, rather than adding needless line breaks, which make your posts difficult to read. If you prefer shorter lines, just resize the window. Please don't inflict it on everyone!
 

Online PKTKS

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Re: KICAD and dual monitors
« Reply #55 on: July 08, 2021, 03:37:09 pm »
You are not the first bugged w that

Sometimes i read forum w cup coffe and cel
. Gez  my fingers can barely fit screen


This size is typical to break.......................

Otherwise i can not use this f* cel

I will try the best

Paul
 

Offline f4eru

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Re: KICAD and dual monitors
« Reply #56 on: July 11, 2021, 08:00:30 pm »
Guys, please calm down. No need to make a war between graphical lib packages.

There is an easy way to achieve this dual monitor though :
simply use the 3D viewer for the global view, and position it so as to see approx the 2D board.
You can improve the view with transparency of the substrate, and other graphical settings.
 
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Offline dunkemhigh

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Re: KICAD and dual monitors
« Reply #57 on: July 11, 2021, 08:15:50 pm »
Quote
simply use the 3D viewer for the global view

That's a pretty good solution  :-+

It doesn't update as you make changes, but a quick click in that window forces an update, so it's not that difficult to periodically do that. Gosh, if only Altium had a separate 3D window...
 


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