KiCAD and Vacuum Tubes (Valve)

[kd4e]

Thanks!

I printed your instructions and picture and will see what I can make of it.

It's fun to learn new things, especially useful tools like this.

[langwadt]

Now the VRML

afaik the prefer format is now step files because they can be exported with the step file for the whole board 

[CatalinaWOW]

Now the VRML

afaik the prefer format is now step files because they can be exported with the step file for the whole board

I am learning KiCad.  And a tutorial I used to learn how to incorporate 3D models said that vrml was preferred.  I don't have a dog in the fight, so I included both.  For reasons I don't understand I have had problems with one or the other formats on some models.  This is a hobby, not a career for me, so I may or may not ever get to the bottom of the reasons why one might choose one or the other.

[langwadt]

Now the VRML

afaik the prefer format is now step files because they can be exported with the step file for the whole board

I am learning KiCad.  And a tutorial I used to learn how to incorporate 3D models said that vrml was preferred.  I don't have a dog in the fight, so I included both.  For reasons I don't understand I have had problems with one or the other formats on some models.  This is a hobby, not a career for me, so I may or may not ever get to the bottom of the reasons why one might choose one or the other.

vrml is for when you want to render pretty pictures, if you want to export the complete board and component as step to mechanical cad you need step

the export function has an option to replace vrml with step for export if you have both files

[CatalinaWOW]

So for you STEP is the preferred format because you use that feature.  I was unaware that KiCad cannot export entire boards as VRML.  It does seem to render boards on screen in this format.  While the step files are sufficient for designing enclosures and verifying board to board clearances I submit that "pretty pictures" also have value and if this limitation of KiCad is true then it is a real deficiency.

[langwadt]

So for you STEP is the preferred format because you use that feature.  I was unaware that KiCad cannot export entire boards as VRML.  It does seem to render boards on screen in this format.  While the step files are sufficient for designing enclosures and verifying board to board clearances I submit that "pretty pictures" also have value and if this limitation of KiCad is true then it is a real deficiency.

kicad can export the entire board as VRML, but most mechanical cad wants a step file

and afaik VRML is sorta obsoleted or at-least superseded by something else

[kd4e]

Is VMRL obsoleted by KiCAD or the industry in general?

Are you aware of a document that explains the reasoning and timing of that, please?

Can STEP also render attractive looking layouts for web page display, printing, teaching tools, etc?

I'm also new to KiCAD and am trying to understand some of the why's, for's, when's, and how's.  :-)

Thanks.

[Doctorandus_P]

One problem with VRML is that it does not have a standardized size for what a "unit" is. And as of both metric and banana units are not bad enough, I can miss another ambiguous unit size as toothache. That alone is enough reason for me to avoid VRML wherever possible.

[CatalinaWOW]

I am only a little ahead of you, but can provide a little information.  Current .step files do not provide all of the information required for photorealistic rendering.  But can store color information which is attractive enough for some. 

KiCad's commitment to photorealistic rendering does not seem solid.  I guess if you want photorealistic you can export .step, import it into Blender or other graphics program and define materials yourself.

[uniquecreativeusername]

I've run into a bit of a snag using this library -- Many of the symbols are not present, and there doesn't seem to be a specific column for them in the spreadsheet. Does one of the columns ("test" maybe?) provide information to convert from the tube name to a specific symbol, or is there another step needed to get the appropriate symbol for a specific tube?

[CatalinaWOW]

As mentioned in the opening post I just got tired of creating symbols and left the rest as an exercise for the user.   I only completed about a third of the symbols.  Maybe I will return to this during the cold winter months, but I make no promises.   I will attach a modified version of the Excel file which identifies whether a particular tube type has a symbol in the existing database.  The terminal diagram column identifies the correct base diagram symbol for each tube.  There are .jpg files for all of the tubes I included in the base diagram .zip file.

I find it easiest to generate another symbol by finding a reasonably good match in one of the existing symbols (pentode, dual triode - something that is a good starting point) and then opening that symbol and saving as the new symbol name.  Then import the .jpg image and modify the symbol as required.

When you have all the ones you need complete, perhaps you could post them here as an aid to others.

[CatalinaWOW]

The right combination of weather and lulls in various other life activities occurred and I completed the symbols for all the tubes in the Excel data table.  The Excel table was also modified a bit to correct a couple of errors and to make it easier to sort.  There are now columns to let you sort by tube type, by base diagram and by outline.  For those not familiar with Excel there is a named range containing all the data.  You can select the range by going to the Edit menu, selecting Go To and then selecting Tubes.   Then in the Data menu select Sort, check the box which says my range has a header row and select the appropriate column or columns.

The files attached to the first post have been updated.

I will repeat, check these symbols yourself before using.  I have checked and found errors in my work, but don't guarantee that I found them all. 

I again learned a good deal in this exercise, both about generating KiCAD symbols and about tubes.  Several fascinating types and obscure purposes.  And again the archaeology of recognizing the different styles of the original draftsmen who drew up the diagrams. 

As a final note, doing this forced me to recognize the limitations of the jpeg images of base diagrams I included when I first posted this.  Most are low enough resolution that they are hard to interpret.  Some have actual errors that were in the originals.   I haven't bothered to update them since the symbol file contains all of the necessary information.  This is just a warning to be wary about using them.

[Roughy]

I want to thank you for your hard work on this. I only registered to say thank you, but after reviewing the board I'm going to get a lot of education.

I have no knowledge of anything but I am going to attempt to create a PCB for a portable battery tube radio. The only thing stopping me was the tube designs. I can (not so)easily create the symbols as the radio itself has the schematic on the inside. The portable radio is all hand soldered. In this crazy venture I'm going to be upgrading components and building a new box for it. It's going to take me a long time but I successfully tore down and rebuilt an engine just by internet resources so I'll see what I can do.

[TimFox]

I don't know how you managed that, it's a stunning resource!!

I don't know much (anything!) about tubes/valves, but by coincidence, I've been given a load of car stereos to look at, and they contain a tube/valve inside. I looked to see what part code was written on it.. appears to be N5670W but I may have misread that.

Just out of curiosity I searched the Excel file, to look up "5670", and all the information needed was easy to locate in the sheets in that workbook. It showed me the pinout jpg file to look up too, and the KiCad footprint file, and the STEP and WRL files for the base and the tube.

I'm using KiCad 8, and it read the footprint and 3D models just fine, all rendered perfectly! This will be a great resource for anyone wishing to build with tubes/valves.

I'm tempted too, once I get around to learning a bit about them. I have a few random ones, I was hoping to make a little radio receiver with them if possible one day (I have one or two old tuning capacitors for that).

Just a quick note about the pinout of the 5670/2C51 dual triode:  most of the dual triodes you will encounter, such as the ever-popular 12AX7/ECC83, have a different pinout.
The 5670 pinout apparently was optimized for push-pull applications.

[GotZapped]

@CatalinaWOW

Do you know if KiCad supports tubes with a top-cap connection, e.g. 6CM5 (https://tdsl.duncanamps.com/show.php?des=6CM5)?

In terms of a tube symbol it is just like any other tube or active device. However, with the pcb layout using a tube with a top-cap, the tube footprint would have a connector that is not linked to any footprint pads. Is this possible?

Even better could Kicad support 3D rendering of a tube with the top-cap and connection?

Thanks!

[CatalinaWOW]

@CatalinaWOW

Do you know if KiCad supports tubes with a top-cap connection, e.g. 6CM5 (https://tdsl.duncanamps.com/show.php?des=6CM5)?

In terms of a tube symbol it is just like any other tube or active device. However, with the pcb layout using a tube with a top-cap, the tube footprint would have a connector that is not linked to any footprint pads. Is this possible?

Even better could Kicad support 3D rendering of a tube with the top-cap and connection?

Thanks!

I am not sure what you mean by support, but you can certainly design PWBs to use these tubes.

1.  If you look at the appropriate tube you will find that the symbol includes the connection for the top cap.

2.  The footprint only provides connections for the base pins.  If the top cap connection is on the PWB you will have to arrange a connection for the wire.  I would suggest a test point or single pin connector or creating another component with symbol and footprint for the connection.  I did not provide a footprint for acorn tubes, since I found no socket for them, but if you wanted to solder them directly to the board it wouldn't be hard to create the footprint for the equatorial pins.

3.  The 3D models provided for the tubes include the top caps.  You would have to provide your own model for the clip, insulator and wire involved in the connection.  KiCad does not provide tools for 3D modelling.  But can import and use models created in FreeCAD, Blender, Solid works, or other solid modelling program.  You could either combine this with the tube model (in the external CAD program) or attach it to the "top wire" component mention in item 2 as an option.

[GotZapped]

Thank you CatalinaWOW for the explanation. Looks like I'll need to learn a bit of 3D modelling